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Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

My point is that a firsthand source is always more reliable for what the first-hand source said than a second- or third-hand source. For example, you are more likely to trust yourself as a source for things you said than you are to trust anyone else about things you said. Is this not a fact?

And you have no point.
You are ridiculously trying to suggest that the witness is more credible now than a sworn statement of what he said before, and he simply isn't.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

My point is that a firsthand source is always more reliable for what the first-hand source said than a second- or third-hand source. For example, you are more likely to trust yourself as a source for things you said than you are to trust anyone else about things you said. Is this not a fact?
If a police affidavit is involved Excon would believe the cop before he believes himself.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

And you have no point.
You are ridiculously trying to suggest that the witness is more credible now than a sworn statement of what he said before, and he simply isn't.

It isn't Allen's sworn statement, though. That's where you're wrong. That's where you will continue to be wrong (amongst other places). It's someone else's sworn statement.
 
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Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

If a police affidavit is involved Excon would believe the cop before he believes himself.

Good point. If a police officer swore to the fact that Excon said the lizard people are behind 9/11, Excon must believe that's what he said. I mean, the police would have no reason to lie.

Hell, I'll write an affidavit. I do so solemnly swear that Excon told me he believes the lizard people are behind 9/11. Therefore, Excon believes the lizard people are behind 9/11, since it is in a sworn statement.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

It isn't Allen's sworn statement, though. That's where you're wrong. That's where you will continue to be wrong (amongst other places). It's someone else's sworn statement.
N, that is where you are wrong in believing that.

How many times does it have to be repeated for it to sink in?


Again:
As you were already told.
Stop playing. You know who wrote it and the person is swearing to have that knowledge of what he said.
All you are doing is purposely not recognizing what was said.

His words were already quoted in the article from the affidavit and you still fail to realize that it is a sworn statement based on his knowledge.
To suggest that is a lie is absurdly ridiculous.

And you still are ignoring the lack of credibility in what the supposed witness now says. iLOL :doh :lamo Any refutation by him means absolutely nothing at this point.
And it is hilarious that the guy is so stupid that he thinks he didn't speak to investigators. Only homocide. :doh

And yeah, he said homocide instead of homicide. iLOL


Good point. If a police officer swore to the fact that Excon said the lizard people are behind 9/11, Excon must believe that's what he said. I mean, the police would have no reason to lie.

Hell, I'll write an affidavit. I do so solemnly swear that Excon told me he believes the lizard people are behind 9/11. Therefore, Excon believes the lizard people are behind 9/11, since it is in a sworn statement.
:doh Besides being untrue, read the warning at 384.






If a police affidavit is involved Excon would believe the cop before he believes himself.
:doh Besides being untrue, read the warning at 384.
 
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Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

N, that is where you are wrong in believing that.

How many times does it have to be repeated for it to sink in?


Again:
As you were already told.
Stop playing. You know who wrote it and the person is swearing to have that knowledge of what he said.
All you are doing is purposely not recognizing what was said.

His words were already quoted in the article from the affidavit and you still fail to realize that it is a sworn statement based on his knowledge.
To suggest that is a lie is absurdly ridiculous.

And you still are ignoring the lack of credibility in what the supposed witness now says. iLOL :doh :lamo Any refutation by him means absolutely nothing at this point.
And it is hilarious that the guy is so stupid that he thinks he didn't speak to investigators. Only homocide. :doh

And yeah, he said homocide instead of homicide. iLOL

"The document, written by a Baltimore police investigator..."

So, Allen didn't write it. Allen isn't the one swearing or affirming to anything.

If they are someone else's words, that means it's not a direct quote from Allen.


:doh Besides being untrue, read the warning at 384.

Are you saying you are a better judge of things you have said in the past than someone else than, say, I am? Even if I swear to it?

I am obviously being tongue-in-cheek. I obviously don't believe you said those things. But this illustrates the point perfectly - you should be considered the most trusted source of what you said over someone else. Had you provided a quote stating your belief in the lizard man conspiracy, I would have a leg to stand on... and if the affidavit was written and signed by Allen, YOU would have a leg to stand on.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

:doh Besides being untrue, read the warning at 384.






:doh Besides being untrue, read the warning at 384.

Y'know the mods do their jobs pretty well, you constantly trying to warn people that they are picking on you is really quite unnecessary and sheds a quite a sissy light on you.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

Y'know the mods do their jobs pretty well, you constantly trying to warn people that they are picking on you is really quite unnecessary and sheds a quite a sissy light on you.
Can your superciliousness.
You are in the wrong and that speaks volumes as to the type of person you are.
The fact you chose to address the person instead of the argument just shows you have nothing valid to say.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

"The document, written by a Baltimore police investigator..."

So, Allen didn't write it. Allen isn't the one swearing or affirming to anything.

If they are someone else's words, that means it's not a direct quote from Allen.
Do you or do you not understand that the person quoted what the witness said and swore to it?
If you do not, there is something wrong.



Are you saying you are a better judge of things you have said in the past than someone else than, say, I am? Even if I swear to it?

I am obviously being tongue-in-cheek. I obviously don't believe you said those things. But this illustrates the point perfectly - you should be considered the most trusted source of what you said over someone else. Had you provided a quote stating your belief in the lizard man conspiracy, I would have a leg to stand on... and if the affidavit was written and signed by Allen, YOU would have a leg to stand on.
Irrelevant argument.

The supposed witnesses current statements have no credibility.
What he told investigators as relaid to us, not just through the Commissioner, but through a sworn affidavit, has far more credibility.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

Do you or do you not understand that the person quoted what the witness said and swore to it?
If you do not, there is something wrong.

Do you understand that makes the affidavit a second-hand source, and as such is not quoting Allen? A quote is a first-hand account. The affidavit written by the officer is swearing to the officer's version of events, not Allen's.



Irrelevant argument.

The supposed witnesses current statements have no credibility.
What he told investigators as relaid to us, not just through the Commissioner, but through a sworn affidavit, has far more credibility.

But Allen isn't the sworn party in the affidavit, the officer who wrote it is!

If Allen had written/signed the affidavit, I would agree that it would be a pretty good source for what Allen had said...

...but Allen didn't write the affidavit. His words aren't in it, but rather an officer's accounting of what Allen said.

If you can't see that... Well... I guess you are going to remain wrong. I hope you're comfortable with that.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

idk if anyone has asked yet, but I am curious about how I could distinguish between the sounds of general banging about and the sounds of someone trying to injure themselves.
Is the sound of self-injury similar to the sound of grass?
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

Do you understand that makes the affidavit a second-hand source, and as such is not quoting Allen? A quote is a first-hand account. The affidavit written by the officer is swearing to the officer's version of events, not Allen's.
This is you ignoring that his words were quoted in what the Officer swore.

It is also you ignoring that this affidavit, and what the Commissioner let us know the witness said, has far more credibility than what the witness now says.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

This is you ignoring that his words were quoted in what the Officer swore.

It is also you ignoring that this affidavit, and what the Commissioner let us know the witness said, has far more credibility than what the witness now says.

You are ignoring that this is what the officer says Allen says happened, not what Allen says happened.

When asked to corroborate, Allen refuted the statement.

If I swear that you said something, and you refuted it when asked directly, then I would say your account of what you said is probably more accurate than my account.

I suppose the officers could provide a tape of Allen saying those things, that would be something. If the officers could provide a sworn statement from Allen, that would be something. But all they have is a secondhand account of what Allen said, written by an officer.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

idk if anyone has asked yet, but I am curious about how I could distinguish between the sounds of general banging about and the sounds of someone trying to injure themselves.
Is the sound of self-injury similar to the sound of grass?

I brought that up ages ago, but luckily Excon pointed out that my thoughts were irrelevant and he had won whilst I had lost. I think that you're precisely correct and there's no way the other man could have known what he was hearing. That's why it is so imperative to wait until the facts come in before you start acting like you know what happened.

However, I place no importance whatsoever on the witness. We don't know anything about him and he was only in the van for a few minutes. It's possible that he's given different stories about what happened - or the police lied about it or were mistaken about it. I don't know. But I have completely disregarded anything he said from the beginning. He probably did hear some banging, but it's definitely not enough for me to base any opinion on.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

I brought that up ages ago, but luckily Excon pointed out that my thoughts were irrelevant and he had won whilst I had lost.
He's getting quite good at assertion. That's probably because he practices so often.

I think that you're precisely correct and there's no way the other man could have known what he was hearing. That's why it is so imperative to wait until the facts come in before you start acting like you know what happened.

However, I place no importance whatsoever on the witness. We don't know anything about him and he was only in the van for a few minutes. It's possible that he's given different stories about what happened - or the police lied about it or were mistaken about it. I don't know. But I have completely disregarded anything he said from the beginning. He probably did hear some banging, but it's definitely not enough for me to base any opinion on.
I don't think that self-injury is the kind of thing which has a well-known, distinctive sound.
I get why the statement has received the attention it has.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

What do you find interesting about that?


He had no cause to lie to the authorities and nothing provided shows that.

His current statements do show a reason to lie. He himself voiced it.

Or are you unable to distinguish the difference between the two being made under different circumstances?

He claims to have not said it in the first place. Some piece of paper claims he said it.

A piece of paper he didn't write.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

idk if anyone has asked yet, but I am curious about how I could distinguish between the sounds of general banging about and the sounds of someone trying to injure themselves.
While it is possible to discern in various environments, we do not known how he said he knew, or even if he did say how he knew.
But now that it appears that he isn't going to admit to saying anything, as such, we may never know.
So what we are left with is that he said it when there was no reason to doubt his statements, versus his denial now which has no credibility.





Mustachio​;1064594450 said:
I brought that up ages ago, but luckily Excon pointed out that my thoughts were irrelevant and he had won whilst I had lost.
Still being dishonest I see. :doh
No, that is not what happened.
What I have said is that it is the evidence we have to work with.
And the win lose thing is all yours.





Gonzo Rodeo​;1064594163 said:
You are ignoring that this is what the officer says Allen says happened, not what Allen says happened.
You keep getting told yet refuse to understand.

So all you do is necessitate the repeating of what you are ignoring.

His (the witness's) statement was included in the request for the warrant.


Gonzo Rodeo​;1064594163 said:
When asked to corroborate, Allen refuted the statement.
Why you don't pay attention and keep arguing in circles will never be known.
This is still you ignoring that what he says now has no credibility.





He claims to have not said it in the first place.
And again.

He had no cause to lie to the authorities and nothing provided shows that.

His current statements do show a reason to lie. He himself voiced it.

Or are you unable to distinguish the difference between the two being made under different circumstances?​

Unless what he says matches, nothing he changed is credible. Do you really not understand that?


Some piece of paper claims he said it.

A piece of paper he didn't write.


He was interviewed by investigators and gave a statement.

The application for the search warrant included his statement.





Besides the previous information about the investigators finding the knife was in violation of the law, we now have one of the Officers trying to force the SA's hand.



BALTIMORE (AP) — One of the Baltimore police officers who arrested Freddie Gray wants the police department and prosecutor to produce a knife that was the reason for the arrest, saying in court papers that it is an illegal weapon.

The city's top prosecutor, Marilyn Mosby, said Friday in charging the officer and five others that the knife was legal under Maryland law, meaning they had arrested Gray illegally.

The motion was filed Monday by attorneys for Officer Edward Nero in Baltimore District Court.


Officer charged in Gray death contends arrest was legal
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

He's getting quite good at assertion. That's probably because he practices so often.


I don't think that self-injury is the kind of thing which has a well-known, distinctive sound.
I get why the statement has received the attention it has.

"Ah yes, a moderately loud banging precisely 4 feet, 3 inches from the floor of the van with a downward motion of 22 degrees. That would obviously be the sound of a man safely secured in his seat trying to sever his own spine." It sounds pretty ridiculous, doesn't it? I remember around the time W Bush went into Iraq, there were some satellite images that somehow were supposedly trucks carrying WMDs. My conservative friends touted that as proof even though the trucks turned out to be absolutely nothing and everybody forgot it ever happened. I'm sure everybody has done it but there's a time to call it a day and some of us just won't do it.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

You keep getting told yet refuse to understand.

So all you do is necessitate the repeating of what you are ignoring.

His (the witness's) statement was included in the request for the warrant.

All you have to do to put this point to rest is provide the quote in Allen's own words. Not the police officer's words attributed to Allen, but Allen's own words.

It appears that you don't understand what a quote is. Or you are intentionally being obtuse. Either way, you are displaying a sickening level of ignorance concerning the nature of sworn testimony, beginning at the very definition of what sworn testimony actually is.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

All you have to do to put this point to rest is provide the quote in Allen's own words. Not the police officer's words attributed to Allen, but Allen's own words.
Still ignoring what was said and provided.
It appears that you don't understand what a quote is or are intentionally ignoring them.
His words were quoted.

Either way, you are displaying a sickening level of ignorance concerning the nature of sworn testimony, beginning at the very definition of what sworn testimony actually is
This applies to you. His words were quoted.
 
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Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

Still ignoring what was said and provided.
It appears that you don't understand what a quote is or are intentionally ignoring them.
His words were quoted.

This applies to you. His words were quoted.

Saying somebody said something is not a quote. That is called second-hand reporting.

The dictionary disagrees with you. Are you really going to argue against the dictionary?
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

Saying somebody said something is not a quote. That is called second-hand reporting.

The dictionary disagrees with you. Are you really going to argue against the dictionary?
This is again you ignoring that his words were provided in the documentation.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

This is again you ignoring that his words were provided in the documentation.

...but that documentation is not a quote. If it were a quote, you would be able to provide Allen's exact words as he said them. This you are unable to do.

You are similarly ignoring the actual quote he gave. You know, that statement of his that has "quotes" around it.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

While it is possible to discern [the sounds of general banging about from the sounds of someone trying to injure themselves] in various environments...
...an interesting premise you're starting with.
 
Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

...an interesting premise you're starting with.
Either you can admit that it is possible, or you can not.

While you focused on other wording, you should have paid attention to the following.

While it is possible to discern in various environments, we do not known how he said he knew, or even if he did say how he knew.

He very well may have given a credible reason to the investigators if they asked.

I already said I didn't know either way. Do you know if he did or didn't?





...but that documentation is not a quote. If it were a quote, you would be able to provide Allen's exact words as he said them. This you are unable to do.

You are similarly ignoring the actual quote he gave. You know, that statement of his that has "quotes" around it.
Around and around we go. Yay! :doh
This is again you ignoring that his words were quoted.
 
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