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Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

I don't have a problem with vests.

Ah. So some of that "tacticool" gear is okay.

I am pro gun as you know. I think you should be able to carry anywhere you wish (cept private property should that owner not want it), that said, if a locality has a ban on carrying, police should not be exempt.

This is really a pro-gun argument tho.

No it's not. It's pro-criminal. It's like saying that cops in car chases should be forced to obey the speed limit - it only enablets the malefactor.

You misunderstand my point, I think many departments don't really need guns for patrol officers, in fact most officers never draw thier guns in thier entire carreer.

So? I never shot anyone either tour. That didn't mean I was leaving the wire without a weapon.

Constitution restricts government not people. we are not enforcing laws, we are not government agents, doesn't fit.

The logic is the same. It's not my fault you are depending on an anti-gun argument.

27, I don't care whether it's detroit of the hamptons, 27 is statistically nill. 27 out of 900,000

how many shot at or otherwise attacked? What are the numbers of violent stats for the localities where these incidents are generally taking place?

27 killed most from accidents,

how many shot at or otherwise attacked? What are the numbers of violent stats for the localities where these incidents are generally taking place?


it seems all the singing about killing cops is bluster.

and yet the point still stands that there is a significant section of this country that views LE as The Enemy and celebrates their killing.

People who don't pay fines should have thier property levied after due process to make the offended party whole

Right. Because if there is one thing that we know about drug addicts, it's that they typically accumulate lots of property.

again, I am talking about the 40% more or less of those who are in only for a non-violent drug offense.

If you break the law you break the law. We can begin to reduce inflow by changing the law.

The war on drugs is a failure, end it.

Meth and other harder drugs are incredibly dangerous and should be criminalized. Marijuana should be treated like alcohol, heroin, not so much.
 
I think what's obvious is this is that for at least a certain percent of police, this is Normal behavior.
There are just alot more cameras now that don't tell lies can't be refuted, tho they try with other possible, if unlikely scenarios. Anything that Might fly.

What's good is with the many recent events, some cops Will change behavior because in most cases they won't know when a cameras on them. There goes the Unfettered power-trip/fudge-anything/immunity part.
 
Ah. So some of that "tacticool" gear is okay.

kevlar is fine, a plate carrier with IIIa plates and a full loadout, not so much.


No it's not. It's pro-criminal. It's like saying that cops in car chases should be forced to obey the speed limit - it only enablets the malefactor.

Depends on why they are being chased. if it's for a broken tail light, it's not worth the risk to the public.

they should get more of these:

The High-Tech GPS Tracker That Is A "Game-changer" For Police - Business Insider

that's police-cool!


So? I never shot anyone either tour. That didn't mean I was leaving the wire without a weapon.

You were in a warzone, not a suburban American town! /facepalm


The logic is the same. It's not my fault you are depending on an anti-gun argument.

ignoring stupid commentary.


how many shot at or otherwise attacked? What are the numbers of violent stats for the localities where these incidents are generally taking place?

there were 50,000 assaults on police officers (out of 900,000) that resulted in "injury", mostly minor. I am all for, if a need is shown for giving police in high crime areas, certain leeway and more tools to get the job done.

That's usually not looking like you are going to war with that community, that makes it worse.

and yet the point still stands that there is a significant section of this country that views LE as The Enemy and celebrates their killing.

I accept your concession.


Right. Because if there is one thing that we know about drug addicts, it's that they typically accumulate lots of property.

why are we bothering with drug addicts for fines? it's a victimless crime.


If you break the law you break the law. We can begin to reduce inflow by changing the law.

I agree we need to break the law, and commute any sentence of non violent drug offenses in prison.


Meth and other harder drugs are incredibly dangerous and should be criminalized. Marijuana should be treated like alcohol, heroin, not so much.

"meth" is amphetamine, same class and design that we give rambuctious 5 year olds. yes, it can be abused.
 
kevlar is fine, a plate carrier with IIIa plates and a full loadout, not so much.

Ah. So this is the theory that criminals do not use rifles or high-power handguns?

Police units are likely to know best what their particular locale most requires in terms of personal protection. A single national standard will prove one size fits not-quite-anyone rather than everyone.

Depends on why they are being chased. if it's for a broken tail light, it's not worth the risk to the public.

If the individual has a broken tail light, and runs from the cops, then he doesn't have merely a broken tail light, but is breaking other laws as well. If you merely have a broken tail light, you pull over when they flash the lights.

But your argument would remain that cops should follow the same laws that apply to civilians in the regards that allow them to successfully do their jobs. This is ridiculous. We hire them for a reason.


I'm not against it, but you are forgetting public safety.

You were in a warzone, not a suburban American town! /facepalm

I would have been in more danger, statistically, had I been in Detroit. As I have tried to point out to you, local conditions reign, and "suburban American town" is not the universal condition.


ignoring stupid commentary.

Which translates to "Okay, I got carried away and made a dumb argument that I don't actually believe, because I'm not an anti-gunner and I don't accept their logic."?

there were 50,000 assaults on police officers (out of 900,000) that resulted in "injury", mostly minor.

Hm. Goodness. So, in other words, around 5-7% of cops get assaulted in such a manner as to cause injury (rather than just "being assaulted, which I think we can assume is a wider number) on the job, every year, with likely concentration in dangerous locales and few or no incidents in safer locales.

I am all for, if a need is shown for giving police in high crime areas, certain leeway and more tools to get the job done.

And the local unit is most likely to understand the local conditions.

That's usually not looking like you are going to war with that community, that makes it worse.

:shrug: broadly, I'd concur.

I accept your concession.

:lol: my point remains. :)

why are we bothering with drug addicts for fines? it's a victimless crime.

Not necessarily. And Rule of Law is important. Even if it's dumb, if you break the law, you should be punished.

I agree we need to break the law, and commute any sentence of non violent drug offenses in prison.

:shrug: again, broadly, with caveats, for softer drugs I can agree with that.

"meth" is amphetamine, same class and design that we give rambuctious 5 year olds. yes, it can be abused.

Meth is nothing like what we give rambunctious 5 year olds. Meth friggin kills you, and fast. Meth heads I would almost support automatically taking away their children, given the near-universal neglect and abuse that occurs as soon as someone becomes hooked on that crap. Harder drugs =/= marijuana.
 
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Ah. So this is the theory that criminals do not use rifles or high-power handguns?

again, 27 police died 2013, the mortality rate by gunfire is 3.3 per 100,000 which is lower than the civillians around them which is 4.6 per 100,000.

While yes it does happen, it's rare enough that plate carriers are an uneeded accessory.



Police units are likely to know best what their particular locale most requires in terms of personal protection. A single national standard will prove one size fits not-quite-anyone rather than everyone.


The 1033 program's results says otherwise. Though I never called for a one size fits all national standard, in fact I've said the opposite, numerous times.



If the individual has a broken tail light, and runs from the cops, then he doesn't have merely a broken tail light, but is breaking other laws as well. If you merely have a broken tail light, you pull over when they flash the lights.


suspended license maybe? is it worth putting innocent lives at risk?


But your argument would remain that cops should follow the same laws that apply to civilians in the regards that allow them to successfully do their jobs. This is ridiculous. We hire them for a reason.

Not sure what you mean.


I'm not against it, but you are forgetting public safety.

I am enhancing public safety.


Why do you have a criminal record? the danger for you and me is overstated, and with the very low number of cops shot each year, and statistics showing that 90% or so national average of people shooting each other, both had criminal records.


Hm. Goodness. So, in other words, around 5-7% of cops get assaulted in such a manner as to cause injury (rather than just "being assaulted, which I think we can assume is a wider number) on the job, every year, with likely concentration in dangerous locales and few or no incidents in safer locales.


"injury" is very broad, and again most were minor. and again, I never advocated for a one size fits all.


And the local unit is most likely to understand the local conditions.



:shrug: broadly, I'd concur.



:lol: my point remains. :)



Not necessarily. And Rule of Law is important. Even if it's dumb, if you break the law, you should be punished.




“A Law repugnant to the Constitution is void.” -chief Justice Marshall


Meth is nothing like what we give rambunctious 5 year olds. Meth friggin kills you, and fast. Meth heads I would almost support automatically taking away their children, given the near-universal neglect and abuse that occurs as soon as someone becomes hooked on that crap. Harder drugs =/= marijuana.


adderall+and+methamphetamine.jpg



but here's a question, what are the side affects of methamphetamine and it's associated risks? what are they for adderall?

specifically show why methampetamine is worse based on medical warnings.
 
"meth" is amphetamine, same class and design that we give rambuctious 5 year olds. yes, it can be abused.

As one of those rambunctious 5 year olds, I can tell you that Ritalin and Adderall are drugs that are of the amphetamine group, they are chemically much different than meth-amphetamine which adds a methyl group....Not that you can't take a bunch and get "high". I've seen it done, but it's nothing at all like meth-amphetamine.

Sort of like H20=water, H2O2=Hydrogen Peroxide

Very similar in their chemical makeup, but are totally different and have much different properties....Same idea.
 
This illustrates the dangers of meth (originally posted by Ladymoonlight in the funny pictures thread, but appropriate here:)

67183502d1429779265-funny-pictures-thread-iii-star-wars-trailer-5.jpg
 
As one of those rambunctious 5 year olds, I can tell you that Ritalin and Adderall are drugs that are of the amphetamine group, they are chemically much different than meth-amphetamine which adds a methyl group....Not that you can't take a bunch and get "high". I've seen it done, but it's nothing at all like meth-amphetamine.

Sort of like H20=water, H2O2=Hydrogen Peroxide

Very similar in their chemical makeup, but are totally different and have much different properties....Same idea.




Both are chemically amphetamines, your water comparison is not apt.



furthermore, Desoxyn is perscription methamphetamine, used for...... adhd.

Methamphetamine
Prescription drug
Consult a doctor if you have a medical concern.
Treats attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and helps with weight loss in obese patients.
Side effects - Warnings - How to use
National Library of Medicine
Brand name: Desoxyn
Legal status: Schedule II controlled substance
Formula: C10H15N
Pregnancy risk: Category C (Risk cannot be ruled out)
Drug classes: Central Nervous System Stimulant, Amphetamine Anorectic
Other drugs in same class: Methylphenidate, Dextroamphetamine, More


you also have dexadrine:

Dextroamphetamine
Prescription drug
Consult a doctor if you have a medical concern.
Treats attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and narcolepsy (a sleep problem). This medicine is a stimulant.
Side effects - Warnings - How to use
National Library of Medicine
Brand names: ProCentra, Dexedrine, Dextrostat
Legal status: Schedule II controlled substance
Drug class: Central Nervous System Stimulant
Other drugs in same class: Methylphenidate, Lisdexamfetamine, More
Possible side effects: Tachycardia, Hives, Palpitations, Dry mouth
May treat: Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, Excessive uncontrollable daytime sleepiness, Hyperactivity

amphetamine (adderall combines this with dextroampthetamine.)

Amphetamine
Treatment
Amphetamine is a potent central nervous system stimulant of the phenethylamine class that is used in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and narcolepsy. Wikipedia
Legal status: Schedule II controlled substance
Formula: C9H13N
IUPAC ID: 1-phenylpropan-2-amine
Melting point: 572°F (300°C)
Soluble in: Water
People also search for


again look at the side effects and cautions, they are all part of the phenethylamine class. It's affects on the health of the users, and potential for abuse is EXACTLY the same.
 
Both are chemically amphetamines, your water comparison is not apt.



furthermore, Desoxyn is perscription methamphetamine, used for...... adhd.

Methamphetamine
Prescription drug
Consult a doctor if you have a medical concern.
Treats attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and helps with weight loss in obese patients.
Side effects - Warnings - How to use
National Library of Medicine
Brand name: Desoxyn
Legal status: Schedule II controlled substance
Formula: C10H15N
Pregnancy risk: Category C (Risk cannot be ruled out)
Drug classes: Central Nervous System Stimulant, Amphetamine Anorectic
Other drugs in same class: Methylphenidate, Dextroamphetamine, More


you also have dexadrine:

Dextroamphetamine
Prescription drug
Consult a doctor if you have a medical concern.
Treats attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and narcolepsy (a sleep problem). This medicine is a stimulant.
Side effects - Warnings - How to use
National Library of Medicine
Brand names: ProCentra, Dexedrine, Dextrostat
Legal status: Schedule II controlled substance
Drug class: Central Nervous System Stimulant
Other drugs in same class: Methylphenidate, Lisdexamfetamine, More
Possible side effects: Tachycardia, Hives, Palpitations, Dry mouth
May treat: Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, Excessive uncontrollable daytime sleepiness, Hyperactivity

amphetamine (adderall combines this with dextroampthetamine.)

Amphetamine
Treatment
Amphetamine is a potent central nervous system stimulant of the phenethylamine class that is used in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and narcolepsy. Wikipedia
Legal status: Schedule II controlled substance
Formula: C9H13N
IUPAC ID: 1-phenylpropan-2-amine
Melting point: 572°F (300°C)
Soluble in: Water
People also search for


again look at the side effects and cautions, they are all part of the phenethylamine class. It's affects on the health of the users, and potential for abuse is EXACTLY the same.

Which is why mom only gave me 3 pills before she said no more.
 
but you know he wont, he'll just get a week of paid leave.
 
Can't muster up enough apathy, sorry.

I'd say you have that backwards. If anything considering the argument you are making your too apathetic. Or is it that your level of outrage here over this subject is just a little too high, or is your opinion on taking action limited to posting a few posts on a message board on the internet and feeling like that's enough?

some? sure. but mostly no. and it's the mindset that everytime they walk out the station door that they are going into "battle"...

It only takes one incident, one individual, one fire fight, one perp that runs is allowed to get away, and in the time to track down, kills an innocent person...It only takes police a very few instances of letting their guard down and allowing their rules of safe proximity to operations to get bystanders hurt. Then all the outrage your exuding over a cell phone would be aimed at saying the police allowed that woman too close, and are responsible for her injury....They can't win. I don't like what the Marshall did, and I think he should be investigated, but come on we have to maintain common sense here.

Well, I went into the military, then contract work, then figured out a way to make a ****load of money. the diversity quota was the best thing that ever happened to me!

I know, I know....Everyone on the internet is a self made wealthy individual (Not saying you're not) Hell, I am the first trucker that makes a million a year driving a truck....:mrgreen:

It's part of the systemic mindset that needs to be exposed and fixed.

Not trying to be a Richard Noggin here, but if that is really how you feel, then you should take your amassed wealth, and your obvious free time, and start a movement to change this....But hey, You don't have enough apathy....:mrgreen:

it's a continuation of the tangent you freely engaged in.

Well, Isn't that why we are here? To discuss? I didn't know that if I held a different opinion than other posters, I was supposed to not post....Huh? Imagine that....
 
This Marshall's choice of actions were pathetic. I've been involved in law enforcement for over 25 years and it's actions of idiots like this that give the rest of us a bad name. It's a choice or "war" over diplomacy - you choose diplomacy if applicable. The correct action would be to approach the woman and speak to her face to face. Explain that she is within an unsafe perimeter and if she does not remove herself from it she could get cited/arrested for failure to obey or possibly obstruction.

While I agree that the Deputy Marshall acted horrible on the video, but I wonder if we had seen more of that operation, if what you suggest didn't happen? We just don't know. And, while there is NO excuse for lashing out, and breaking personal property, from the stories about this it is clear that the woman wasn't just a silent film taker, she was reported as calling out taunts to these LEO's as they did their jobs, against the policing actions being taken, and was on the line, IMHO, of becoming more than just an annoyance, but an obstruction to the safe completion of that operation....
 
My only comment on this is to ask who in their right mind would want to be a police officer in this day and in this political/social climate? Constantly watched/taped, constantly second guessed, constantly accused of being criminal or thugs, and constantly having an entitled public up in their faces everywhere they go and work.

Being a police officer today has to be one of if not the most stressful of jobs going. You couldn't pay me enough to be one and I'm grateful for those who do the job and do it well.

My only comment would be to observe that people wanting to be cops should really want to protect and serve the public not their brothers in blue and that if they obey the law the should have nothing to fear from a camera.

PS.:
What is with all these monetary incentives given to police and crime labs for the number of arrests and/or convictions? Talk about egregious conflict of interest. Home Depot gift cards, more budget money...
Maybe that is why the cops are so touchy about cameras. People are ****ing with their 'pension plans' because false arrests and planted evidence, so financially rewarded in the past, has been taken away.
 
My only comment would be to observe that people wanting to be cops should really want to protect and serve the public not their brothers in blue and that if they obey the law the should have nothing to fear from a camera.

PS.:
What is with all these monetary incentives given to police and crime labs for the number of arrests and/or convictions? Talk about egregious conflict of interest. Home Depot gift cards, more budget money...
Maybe that is why the cops are so touchy about cameras. People are ****ing with their 'pension plans' because false arrests and planted evidence, so financially rewarded in the past, has been taken away.

I know nothing of your second point. As to your first point, that's what most police officers are, from the beginning. A few years on the job and you find that "family" is pretty much all you have.
 
While I agree that the Deputy Marshall acted horrible on the video, but I wonder if we had seen more of that operation, if what you suggest didn't happen? We just don't know. And, while there is NO excuse for lashing out, and breaking personal property, from the stories about this it is clear that the woman wasn't just a silent film taker, she was reported as calling out taunts to these LEO's as they did their jobs, against the policing actions being taken, and was on the line, IMHO, of becoming more than just an annoyance, but an obstruction to the safe completion of that operation....

But like you said, there is "NO" excuse for the cops behavior, not even if the lady was a bitch as you put it.
 
I'd say you have that backwards. If anything considering the argument you are making your too apathetic. Or is it that your level of outrage here over this subject is just a little too high, or is your opinion on taking action limited to posting a few posts on a message board on the internet and feeling like that's enough?


It's a discussion forum, what I do in my personal life is my business. your stupid "why don't you go make a citizens arrest" commentary, is dumb, sorry. I require a little more intellect in a volley of verbal intercourse. (no, intercourse doesn't mean "sex").


It only takes one incident, one individual, one fire fight, one perp that runs is allowed to get away, and in the time to track down, kills an innocent person...It only takes police a very few instances of letting their guard down and allowing their rules of safe proximity to operations to get bystanders hurt. Then all the outrage your exuding over a cell phone would be aimed at saying the police allowed that woman too close, and are responsible for her injury....They can't win. I don't like what the Marshall did, and I think he should be investigated, but come on we have to maintain common sense here.


I laugh at the propaganda here. 27 cops died in 2013. Garbage men have a far more dangerous jobs than cops, yet we don't see this "we must battle as the #heros we are!" propaganda spewed like above.

I know, I know....Everyone on the internet is a self made wealthy individual (Not saying you're not) Hell, I am the first trucker that makes a million a year driving a truck....:mrgreen:

kudos to you.


Not trying to be a Richard Noggin here, but if that is really how you feel, then you should take your amassed wealth, and your obvious free time, and start a movement to change this....But hey, You don't have enough apathy....:mrgreen:


This is dumb, you are better than this. Trying to shut me up on DP, because I don't make a citizens arrest on someone somewhere is stupid.


Well, Isn't that why we are here? To discuss? I didn't know that if I held a different opinion than other posters, I was supposed to not post....Huh? Imagine that....


Who said that? you came at me for going off on a tangent you created, I responded I will speak as I see fit, and this is your response?

o.0
 
It's a discussion forum, what I do in my personal life is my business. your stupid "why don't you go make a citizens arrest" commentary, is dumb, sorry. I require a little more intellect in a volley of verbal intercourse. (no, intercourse doesn't mean "sex").





I laugh at the propaganda here. 27 cops died in 2013. Garbage men have a far more dangerous jobs than cops, yet we don't see this "we must battle as the #heros we are!" propaganda spewed like above.



kudos to you.





This is dumb, you are better than this. Trying to shut me up on DP, because I don't make a citizens arrest on someone somewhere is stupid.





Who said that? you came at me for going off on a tangent you created, I responded I will speak as I see fit, and this is your response?

o.0

"I require a little more intellect in a volley of verbal intercourse." You mean like not understanding the use of the term "apathy"?

yeah, ok....Carry on :lol:
 
"I require a little more intellect in a volley of verbal intercourse." You mean like not understanding the use of the term "apathy"?

yeah, ok....Carry on :lol:



I fully understand it, which it why I used it, artistic license if you will. You need to stop romanticizing law enforcement for what it is not, and start seeing it for what it is.
 
I fully understand it, which it why I used it, artistic license if you will. You need to stop romanticizing law enforcement for what it is not, and start seeing it for what it is.

Ok, so, we are spoon fed several instances, complete with false narrative, and are supposed to now believe that all police forces are corrupt, and rife with racial bias....Yeah, ok...You can fall for that if you like, I don't.
 
Ok, so, we are spoon fed several instances, complete with false narrative, and are supposed to now believe that all police forces are corrupt, and rife with racial bias....Yeah, ok...You can fall for that if you like, I don't.



No one claimed all police forces are corrupt, nor racist. I believe the vast majority to be the opposite.
 
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