Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

Right or wrong, it's ONE COP.


If this problem is so systemic, where are the other vids of the rest of the LAPD doing crap like this?


I'm tired of all of the cop bashing. We're making a huge freaking deal over, what, less than 1% of all the police in this country, being a **** up? That's better odds than what we get with out politicians, and we ELECT those people. I'd settle for at least 50% odds on our politicians, but no, they're WORSE. But we get a vid of a single cop stepping out of line, and it's "This country has a growing problem with it's police force..."

Much ado about nothing. If the vid is as it appears, fire the cop, cancel his pension, and hire someone better.


If ONLY it were that easy with the people WE ELECT.

Ikari said:

The People.

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And tell us how "We" the people, are going to effect this change you want to see?

Being safe is great, but we're not safe from the police as we've been seeing in more and more videos. Being safe doesn't just deal with the criminal element, but with government as well. Government must be kept within its restraints.

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And "We" the people, must be kept within ours.

KevinKohler said:

Right or wrong, it's ONE COP.


If this problem is so systemic, where are the other vids of the rest of the LAPD doing crap like this?


I'm tired of all of the cop bashing. We're making a huge freaking deal over, what, less than 1% of all the police in this country, being a **** up? That's better odds than what we get with out politicians, and we ELECT those people. I'd settle for at least 50% odds on our politicians, but no, they're WORSE. But we get a vid of a single cop stepping out of line, and it's "This country has a growing problem with it's police force..."

Much ado about nothing. If the vid is as it appears, fire the cop, cancel his pension, and hire someone better.


If ONLY it were that easy with the people WE ELECT.

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Hear, Hear Kevin....Right on! :clap:

j-mac said:

And tell us how "We" the people, are going to effect this change you want to see?

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By posting more of the videos, raising public awareness, protesting, and demanding proper action be taken

j-mac said:

And "We" the people, must be kept within ours.

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Quite the authoritarian view there. No, We The People are the sovereigns, we own the government, it works for us; not the other way around. We are the entities which possess rights, not government. The only natural restriction to our rights is that we may not infringe upon the rights of others in the process. Government must be constrained, it cannot just exercise force against the People without due cause.

I'm not sure when "conservatives" flipped from small, responsible government folk to Big Brother Knows Best sort of folk, but this big government, big force, **** the People path of Party Politics is killing the Republic.

j-mac said:

Maybe I am, maybe not...I'm a busy guy, I work pretty hard, so I'm not always available to sit around watching news 24/7.

And NO, I don't think they are the only cases, but you're ignoring my questions....How many cases vs. the number of police on the job? Can you answer that?

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Nobody on either side of the issue can give an absolute answer, but the most credible estimates for wrongful convictions is in the 4% to 5% range, so it stands to reason this would be similar.

j-mac said:

I really don't know, I guess it depends on the jurisdiction. I do know that a cop can witness a minor dispute between people, and not effect an arrest themselves, but they ask the "victim" in the dispute if they want to file charges....So, it is possible that if the woman would have gone up to one of the police on the scene, after their operation was done, and asked them to arrest that Marshall for assault, that it would have been done....My guess is that she knew she was in the wrong, and didn't pursue it, therefore, legally speaking, I don't think you have a crime....You know like if a tree falls in the forest, thing.



I am not making anything up for you, you're doing a fine job digging yourself....But keep in mind that the police have a duty to protect....Think about that.



Then I might suggest you get ahold of the woman in the video and plead with her to file charges.

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So you have no idea if she was breaking the law or not yet you defend the cop. No suprise there. Yeah I am sure the lady would have been very comfortable with going up to the officers who just witnessed one of their buddies break the law and do nothing about it. Good cops who let other cops break the law are not good cops.
And to say that because the woman didn't file charges, then there was no crime when the cop is caught on film breaking her property is just idiotic.

And you are most certainly making things up that I did not say. That is exactly what you did. And no the Supreme Court has said the police do not have a duty to protect you. Nice try though.

Peter King said:

Well, no warning and destruction of property. I think the woman should get a new phone paid by that specific police officer.

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The reports are that the woman had exchanged words with the officers present. As of yet, we don't know what was said so we can't be certain there was no warning

j-mac said:

Why should she have to file charges? Because that is how it is done....So now you want to rewrite the system?

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No the majority of time the cops witness an assault as well as other crimes they arrest the person. They don't wait for the victim to come down to the station to file a report. Why do you think holding cops to the same standard as average citizens is such a bad idea.

I have now had SEVERAL encounters with the police, for a variety of reasons. Once, when I was a teenager, I got busted for trespassing. I even tried to run away, lol. And would have escaped, but for my partner in crime, who fell. So I stopped. And you know what? The cops grabbed me by my collar, and hauled me back to their cruiser, and called my parents. Frankly, I would have preferred an arrest. The owner of the place a trespassed on was notified, but no charges were brought up (it was a lawn care service, and they had a huge pile of leaves burning, so we poked at it to stoke the fire....because fire is awesome). All in all, I was not roughed up, even though I made those fellas run, I was treated as a criminal, sure...but they engaged me in conversation, asked me what the hell I was up to at that time of night (we had snuck out of our houses, it was, like, 2am), etc etc.

Another time, I was busted for speeding, and had beer bottle caps in the car. Cop was a BIT of a dick, but I think he was just trying to impress on me the importance of never giving an officer the impression of drinking and driving.

Another time, I was pulled over for having out of state plates, and I had a bunch of 35mm film containers in my car, which the officer thought were for drugs. But then I showed him my camera, explained I was a student at the local college, and that was that. This was in a very bad neighborhood, also very late at night.

I was pulled over for running a yellow light, once. THAT got kinda funny, from my perspective. But ultimately, it was midnight, and driving through an area with a bunch of bars. He wanted an excuse to smell my breath. He saw I had a dinner plate in foil, and was dressed for work, and said have a nice evening, the end.

One time I had to call the police for a neighbor because some kids threw a brick through their large window on the front of their house, which was right by where their crib for their new born was. Cops arrived shortly, had a dog, and ACTUALLY managed to catch the kids, who lived a couple blocks down. They managed to calm my neighbors, got everything under control, and wrapped it all up in about 45 minutes.

One time, I was stranded, car stuck in a huge snow drift, and I swear, I thought I was gonna die. No cell, huge blizzard (this was 2 years...or maybe 3 years ago, now?). It was a state of emergency, and I was not supposed to be out, but try telling that to my employer, you know? Plow passed me, must have phoned the police for me, and they showed up at significant personal risk to them, helped me push the car out of the road, and gave me a ride. Asked me why I was out, but they could clearly see I was in work clothes, and I told them I had to stay till store closing, and they nodded, and joined in with me trash talking greedy idiotic employers. They quite literally saved my life. I don't think I would have been able to walk home in that. Snow was up to my chest in some areas, and I'm 6'2.

Another time, we called the police to complain about a guy in a pick up driving through or little neighborhood with barely a two lane road at about 55mph. Cops came, took out statement, found the guy, and issued a warning. Problem stopped immediately.

Another time, we had a pregnant employer suffer what was the most severe low blood sugar attack I have ever seen, cops got there first, carried her to the front, made it so that once the ambulance arrived, they had her out and loaded in probably less than 30 seconds.

KevinKohler said:

Right or wrong, it's ONE COP.


If this problem is so systemic, where are the other vids of the rest of the LAPD doing crap like this?


I'm tired of all of the cop bashing. We're making a huge freaking deal over, what, less than 1% of all the police in this country, being a **** up? That's better odds than what we get with out politicians, and we ELECT those people. I'd settle for at least 50% odds on our politicians, but no, they're WORSE. But we get a vid of a single cop stepping out of line, and it's "This country has a growing problem with it's police force..."

Much ado about nothing. If the vid is as it appears, fire the cop, cancel his pension, and hire someone better.


If ONLY it were that easy with the people WE ELECT.

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I'm this instance it is not just the one cop. The other cops that stood there and did nothing while the one cop broke the law are not good cops. And if there had not been a second person filming this I doubt anything would have happened to anyone.

Now I agree that the number of cops who abuse their authority is most likely pretty small. Unfortunately it seems that the number who look the other way while the law is being broken is much larger.

j-mac said:

You know, of you get too close to the Tiger cage at the zoo, it may attack you as well....

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You are comparing police officers with massive wild carnivores. Feel free to continue to destroy your own position.

KevinKohler said:

Right or wrong, it's ONE COP.

If this problem is so systemic, where are the other vids of the rest of the LAPD doing crap like this?

I'm tired of all of the cop bashing. We're making a huge freaking deal over, what, less than 1% of all the police in this country, being a **** up? That's better odds than what we get with out politicians, and we ELECT those people. I'd settle for at least 50% odds on our politicians, but no, they're WORSE. But we get a vid of a single cop stepping out of line, and it's "This country has a growing problem with it's police force..."

Much ado about nothing. If the vid is as it appears, fire the cop, cancel his pension, and hire someone better.

If ONLY it were that easy with the people WE ELECT.

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If the problem is so small, it should be easy to rectify, shouldn't it?

Also, you seem to claim that you do not approve of the actions of the few bad cops. Hence, one would think that you'd be on board with wanting to "out" these bad cops to ensure that they do get dealt with. Yet your rant comes off as not wanting to hear about it and blindly trusting that they will be dealt with in secret.

radcen said:

If the problem is so small, it should be easy to rectify, shouldn't it?

Also, you seem to claim that you do not approve of the actions of the few bad cops. Hence, one would think that you'd be on board with wanting to "out" these bad cops to ensure that they do get dealt with. Yet your rant comes off as not wanting to hear about it and blindly trusting that they will be dealt with in secret.

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I am. I LOVE that videos like this surface. It's kinda like the gun debate, though. One bad gun owner does something stupid, and everyone rallies around that, and says we need tougher gun laws, more gun laws, less gun owners, etc etc etc.

Too often, threads like this take an OUTLIER, and paints the entire team with that brush. And I'm tired of it. I'm tired of people saying our police force sucks, and needs to be fixed, needs to have the screws put to them, etc. Because it's simply not true.

Yeah, we have a few bad apples, and thanks to technology, those bad apples are getting a LOT of attention. So address THOSE people, don't smear the entire force. Fire the bad cops, cancel their pension, and hire better replacements.

braindrain said:

I'm this instance it is not just the one cop. The other cops that stood there and did nothing while the one cop broke the law are not good cops. And if there had not been a second person filming this I doubt anything would have happened to anyone.

Now I agree that the number of cops who abuse their authority is most likely pretty small. Unfortunately it seems that the number who look the other way while the law is being broken is much larger.

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Isn't there a name for that? The blue shield, or something? I agree, that's something that should be addressed, but as I understand it, that kinda stuff only exists in LARGE police forces, like NYPD, or LAPD.

It's sad to say, but those people deal with problems that are just so far beyond what a typical officer any where else in the US has to deal with, that yeah, they develop a bond, like comrades in arms. Maybe those officers would be less paranoid if half of their jurisdiction really WASN'T out to get them?

cpwill said:

He said that interacting with X is not dangerous because most of X are not dangerous. I pointed out that, when you interact with large numbers of X, the fact that only a small percentage of them are dangerous still makes it dangerous.

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Again, how is that analgolous?


So you are saying, if something is not statistically dangerous, and every now and then, something bad happens to someone it's "dangerous"?

That's sill.


btw,

death rates for police are 5.3 per 100,000, all deaths

Civillian homicide rate is 4.6 per 100,000 just homicides.

remove accidents from police deaths, and its 3.3



So, law enforcment is safer from death by homicde, than a civillian.

It's a safe job.

No, I grabbed a quick analogy. You, however, are attempting to make a statistical argument, and are attempting to apply national averages to local conditions to make the job sound significantly less dangerous than it really is.

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So you were using statistics made up statistics, in an emotional way, The job IS significantly less dangrous than most officers claim.

JasperL said:

I didn't say they do it for the "fun of it." And the problem of course is when they do get unnecessarily violent, they almost NEVER suffer any actual punishment and are even rarely subject to criminal penalties. Their fellow cops, the prosecutors and juries do what we see on here every day - if the person beaten didn't behave PERFECTLY, then the violence is justified.



What I said was I'm self aware enough to know there is a big difference in how cops treat me and those like me and how they treat, say, inner city black kids. I'm certain the difference is night and day between my interactions and poor minorities in, say, NYC or Chicago. And that's especially true as our police become militarized.

How many times you been stopped and frisked? How many white people in the theater district of NYC were stopped and frisked? Not many, but cops racially profiled and stopped blahs and browns in NYC hundreds of thousands of times per year, at least 9/10 of them sent on their way. How long would you maintain a 'respect' for cops who repeatedly pulled you over on your way to work and demanded to search your car for no reason other than they felt like it?

Did you read the Ferguson report on the police department? If my area was treated like that I'm certain we'd have no respect for the police. We might look at them as a necessary evil at best.



I agree that most people are good in any neighborhood. But what I also know is the "good" people in many black, inner city neighborhoods are activists who want to clean up police corruption. That's not caused by videos but by.....obvious and systemic police misconduct and corruption in their neighborhoods.

No doubt some of the differences in perception are caused by the fact that crime is nearly non-existent where I live, and rampant in other areas, so cops have a necessarily different approach to policing and so the interactions MUST be fundamentally different. But you have to at least acknowledge those differences and maybe concede that goes a long way in explaining the different perceptions.

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1. If cops, but much more importantly prosecutors, and most important of all juries, find police actions in most such cases to be justified, then your perceptions are the ones lacking reality - not mine - and it's you who has to acknowledge the difference between what you perceive as reasonable and what the majority in our communities perceive as reasonable. Prosecutors and juries, based on the provisions of law, set the community standards for police action in such cases.

2. The balance of your post is the chicken/egg argument - which comes first. I'd suggest respecting the police and the role they play by obeying the law, following reasonable instructions from officers performing their duties, and parking your self-entitled "rights" agenda is the first change that needs to take place. That's what the vast majority of those silently sitting on the sidelines, minding their own business, and living their own lives do and expect others to do. The silent majority has no time for the loud mouths and the in your face rights advocates who want to coddle and protect the criminals and miscreants of society.

Blemonds said:

Just for the record, this situation has nothing to do with the LAPD. The offending officer, still on the job by the way, is a U.S. Marshall

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US Marshals can have scruffy facial hair as a matter of policy?

Can you link it?


what is the purpose of this look?

Ikari said:

By posting more of the videos, raising public awareness, protesting, and demanding proper action be taken



Quite the authoritarian view there. No, We The People are the sovereigns, we own the government, it works for us; not the other way around. We are the entities which possess rights, not government. The only natural restriction to our rights is that we may not infringe upon the rights of others in the process. Government must be constrained, it cannot just exercise force against the People without due cause.

I'm not sure when "conservatives" flipped from small, responsible government folk to Big Brother Knows Best sort of folk, but this big government, big force, **** the People path of Party Politics is killing the Republic.

Click to expand...

That seeming "switch", if it exists probably comes as a result of people in this country calling for, and working towards 'mob rule' and anarchy.

radcen said:

Nobody on either side of the issue can give an absolute answer, but the most credible estimates for wrongful convictions is in the 4% to 5% range, so it stands to reason this would be similar.

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Ok, so then I'd have to ask is perfection achievable ? I think not...The best we can hope for is that the system works when situations happen.

KevinKohler said:

Isn't there a name for that? The blue shield, or something? I agree, that's something that should be addressed, but as I understand it, that kinda stuff only exists in LARGE police forces, like NYPD, or LAPD.

It's sad to say, but those people deal with problems that are just so far beyond what a typical officer any where else in the US has to deal with, that yeah, they develop a bond, like comrades in arms. Maybe those officers would be less paranoid if half of their jurisdiction really WASN'T out to get them?

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While I can understand the feelings of wanting to protect your buddies and fellow officers that doesn't make it right. And I am not sure it is just large depts. A small scale but very common example of it is when it comes to giving other officers speeding tickets. It is very well known that most cops don't give other cops speeding tickets. I have even been with a buddy who while off duty was pulled over for doing about 20 over, cop came up my buddy showed him his badge and off we went. He said his dept calls it a professional courtesy. To me it starts with small things like that. Than moves to things like getting pulled over drunk and having them call your wife to pick you up rather than charge you, like some cops in my area got in trouble for, and eventually leads to looking the other way when bigger things happen. Either they are held to the same standards as the rest of us or they are not. There really is no middle ground.

My opinion is that any cop that allows others to break the law and doesn't do anything about it is almost as bad as the one breaking the law.

j-mac said:

That seeming "switch", if it exists probably comes as a result of people in this country calling for, and working towards 'mob rule' and anarchy.

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Well I suppose if selling out the Republic and destroying this great experiment in freedom was the goal, that's the way to do it.

Blemonds said:

The reports are that the woman had exchanged words with the officers present. As of yet, we don't know what was said so we can't be certain there was no warning

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Where?

Post these "reports" as your claim is completely inconsistent with the video.

If you are suggesting he was jusitfied in this assault because of something said, it had better been a documented threat.

ReverendHellh0und said:

Again, how is that analgolous?

So you are saying, if something is not statistically dangerous, and every now and then, something bad happens to someone it's "dangerous"?

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I am saying that if only a minority of something is dangerous, but you interact with it many times, the danger represented is not the % of X that is dangerous, but % of X that is dangerous times the number of times you interact with it. As an analogy, if a very small minority of M&M's are poisonous, eating them by the handful is still a dangerous enterprise.

So you were using statistics made up statistics, in an emotional way, The job IS significantly less dangrous than most officers claim.

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No, I was using an analogy in an analogous way. You wanted to use statistics, and you did it poorly.

ReverendHellh0und said:

US Marshals can have scruffy facial hair as a matter of policy?

Can you link it?

what is the purpose of this look?

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You own your own business - what is the purpose of your haircut?

braindrain said:

So you have no idea if she was breaking the law or not yet you defend the cop. No suprise there.

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What the hell is that supposed to mean? Look, do I support Law Enforcement? Yes. Does that mean that I give them a free pass? No...So I don't know why you feel the need to attack me.

Yeah I am sure the lady would have been very comfortable with going up to the officers who just witnessed one of their buddies break the law and do nothing about it.

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Who said she had to go up to one of the cops there? That may have been one way, but if she felt uncomfortable, then she could go down to the police station, and file a complaint, and to the courthouse and file charges....

And think about for a second what you are saying, she was bold enough to insert herself close enough to an ongoing police operation that involved danger, but the poor wilting flower is too meek to go file charges....pfft, not buying it.

Good cops who let other cops break the law are not good cops.

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No quarrel with that statement, but you and I are not the judge.

And to say that because the woman didn't file charges, then there was no crime when the cop is caught on film breaking her property is just idiotic.

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Really? So tell me, if no charges were filed, who is going to be prosecuted?

And you are most certainly making things up that I did not say. That is exactly what you did.

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Nope, sorry but you're wrong about that.

And no the Supreme Court has said the police do not have a duty to protect you. Nice try though.

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Now, you are conflating what the SCOTUS was ruling on...It is true that the police are not a "pro active" agency. IOW, they are not there to predict, and conversely prevent crime from happening. That would be impossible. But, if you have an ongoing operation by police, then at that point they ARE tasked with public safety...Why do you think they block off things like hostage situations?