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Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

Ahlevah

Ahlevah

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A major rescue operation is underway in the Mediterranean Sea, north of Libya and south of the Italian island of Lampedusa, after a migrant ship carrying as many as 700 people capsized Sunday. Italy's Coast Guard said at least 24 people are confirmed dead, with the death toll expected to rise into the hundreds.

"It seems we are looking at the worst massacre ever seen in the Mediterranean," UNHCR spokeswoman Carlotta Sami said.

Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea | Fox News
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I saw this was posted on Fox this morning over an hour ago and was surprised to see no one mentioned it. My apologies if I missed an earlier posting.

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what to do about Libya. Seems to me the Euros, especially the French, were the major instigators to oust Gaddafi. Where are they now? :confused:
 
Ahlevah said:
I saw this was posted on Fox this morning over an hour ago and was surprised to see no one mentioned it. My apologies if I missed an earlier posting.

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what to do about Libya. Seems to me the Euros, especially the French, were the major instigators to oust Gaddafi. Where are they now? :confused:
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The problem is not so much Libya as the failure to develop a system across Africa that can sustain the population. They have been flooding North and drowning before they reach European coasts for years and years. But it is getting additional coverage as more now die after the EU stopped a program to save as many as posible from Davy Jones Locker.
 
joG said:
The problem is not so much Libya as the failure to develop a system across Africa that can sustain the population. They have been flooding North and drowning before they reach European coasts for years and years. But it is getting additional coverage as more now die after the EU stopped a program to save as many as posible from Davy Jones Locker.
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Libya, Syria, Somalia--the common thread seems to be Islamic countries wracked by war. So the program was stopped why? A cynic might conclude that maybe some people don't want tens of thousands of uneducated "darkies" from the Third World entering socialist paradise? They'd just prefer they go away--or drown? I mean, the silence on this is deafening.
 
Ahlevah said:
Libya, Syria, Somalia--the common thread seems to be Islamic countries wracked by war. So the program was stopped why? A cynic might conclude that maybe some people don't want tens of thousands of uneducated "darkies" from the Third World entering socialist paradise? They'd just prefer they go away--or drown? I mean, the silence on this is deafening.
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They would certainly prefer pointing their fingers at the USA for using drones to take out terrorists than shoulder responsibility for letting thousands of "uneducated darkies" drown man, woman and child.
 
It wouldn't be that, Britain uses drones too. It must be drowning darkies. One Murdoch columnist this week described them as cockroaches.
 
joG said:
The problem is not so much Libya as the failure to develop a system across Africa that can sustain the population. They have been flooding North and drowning before they reach European coasts for years and years. But it is getting additional coverage as more now die after the EU stopped a program to save as many as posible from Davy Jones Locker.
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No, Italy stopped a program, NOT THE EU. The EU in fact put in place an underfunded program to take up the slack.. and guess where the underfunding came from... Germany, UK and so on.

Stop blaming the EU for this mess, as the blame should be laid at the steps of Downing Street and German Chancellery.
 
Ahlevah said:
Libya, Syria, Somalia--the common thread seems to be Islamic countries wracked by war. So the program was stopped why? A cynic might conclude that maybe some people don't want tens of thousands of uneducated "darkies" from the Third World entering socialist paradise? They'd just prefer they go away--or drown? I mean, the silence on this is deafening.
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The program was stopped by the Italians because the financial cost was so high and they got no help from the rest of Europe. Basically the Italians (along with the Spanish and Greeks) got fed up by the inaction from Northern Europe.
 
Ahlevah said:
I saw this was posted on Fox this morning over an hour ago and was surprised to see no one mentioned it. My apologies if I missed an earlier posting.

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what to do about Libya. Seems to me the Euros, especially the French, were the major instigators to oust Gaddafi. Where are they now? :confused:
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LOL the French were not the "major instigators", the US was and always has been thanks to the bull**** "Arab spring" push by Bush Jr.

In fact the Italians and French warned about getting involved but when Gaddafi threatened to slaughter a whole city, then something had to be done and they were convinced. It was NATO who bombed, but NATO does nothing without the approval of the White House (not to mention NATO is fully dependent on US logistics and command and control).

Was it a mistake to remove Gaddafi when looking at the current situation? yes big time. Was it a mistake to remove Gaddafi looking at the current situation in Libya... yep, just as it was a mistake in removing Saddam. No one thought of the aftermath and we are living with the consequences today. Generating a power vacuum is only inviting trouble in.. and that is what we have done in Iraq and Libya and are attempting to do in Syria and other places. It will come to bite us all in the ass in the end.
 
Manc Skipper said:
It wouldn't be that, Britain uses drones too. It must be drowning darkies. One Murdoch columnist this week described them as cockroaches.
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Link please?
 
Ahlevah said:
I saw this was posted on Fox this morning over an hour ago and was surprised to see no one mentioned it. My apologies if I missed an earlier posting.

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what to do about Libya. Seems to me the Euros, especially the French, were the major instigators to oust Gaddafi. Where are they now? :confused:
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I worked in Libya for a time when Qaddafi was in power and such migrant deaths in boat capsizes were a problem then as well. This isn't a new problem.
 
PeteEU said:
No, Italy stopped a program, NOT THE EU. The EU in fact put in place an underfunded program to take up the slack.. and guess where the underfunding came from... Germany, UK and so on.

Stop blaming the EU for this mess, as the blame should be laid at the steps of Downing Street and German Chancellery.
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I am not really interested in going into the details, but the EU has organized it in such a way that a few countries are forced to carry the brunt of the situation and the costs. That in combination with the restraints on spending in the recession because of the Euro is why Italy was hard pressed to continue Mare Nostrum.

In any event it is clearly a European problem, though, you are correct that it is not easy to identify which members of Schengen-, Euroland or the EU or which of these organizations are responsible for what. But all you need do, is read or watch any news media in Europe.
 
PeteEU said:
No, Italy stopped a program, NOT THE EU. The EU in fact put in place an underfunded program to take up the slack.. and guess where the underfunding came from... Germany, UK and so on.

Stop blaming the EU for this mess, as the blame should be laid at the steps of Downing Street and German Chancellery.
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I know this was a terrible tragedy, but I don't see how this is the fault of any EU nation. These people are not their problem and they shouldn't have to absorb Africa's lowest common denominator.
 
joG said:
I am not really interested in going into the details, but the EU has organized it in such a way that a few countries are forced to carry the brunt of the situation and the costs. That in combination with the restraints on spending in the recession because of the Euro is why Italy was hard pressed to continue Mare Nostrum.

In any event it is clearly a European problem, though, you are correct that it is not easy to identify which members of Schengen-, Euroland or the EU or which of these organizations are responsible for what. But all you need do, is read or watch any news media in Europe.
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CC9xD7tWYAAH0Va.png:large
 
joG said:
I am not really interested in going into the details,
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Clearly not, since you blame the EU for everything. Details matter, especially in this case if people are to learn why those poor people have died.

but the EU has organized it in such a way that a few countries are forced to carry the brunt of the situation and the costs.
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No again, you use the "blame EU". Who organized it that way? Oh the majority in Northern Europe, not the freaking EU. In fact the EU, aka the EU commission has been for decades pushing for changes and voicing its concern, but the Northern Europe countries, with the UK and Germany in front have refused to do anything.

That in combination with the restraints on spending in the recession because of the Euro is why Italy was hard pressed to continue Mare Nostrum.
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The Euro has absolutely nothing to do with the situation nor the recession. Your problem with the EU yet again shows its ugly face.

In any event it is clearly a European problem, though, you are correct that it is not easy to identify which members of Schengen-, Euroland or the EU or which of these organizations are responsible for what. But all you need do, is read or watch any news media in Europe.
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Yes it is an European problem and it is VERY EASY to identify which members are the problem, if the media were not blind and dumb on the situation.. which they are. The problem is a lack of co-ordination due to the lack of political will from Germany and the UK, with the rest of Northern Europe following behind. France use to be part of the gang, but has the last half decade pushed for more coordination.. which is why they are not "doing much" at the Calais border, since the UK refuses to do anything.
 
Manc Skipper said:
CC9xD7tWYAAH0Va.png:large
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Sure. That is not so much their problem as they are not part of Schengen, having refused to join. That is part of the European sickness. There is a confusion of regulations and responsibilities so that responsibilities are poorly attributable. The argument that saving boat people encourages more is quite right. It is also often used as yesterday morning on Deutschlandfunk by a German Minister. Using it as an excuse to save money by letting the people drown is, however, disingenuous. And for a member of the EU to try and wriggle out by pointing at a country that warned the EUlanders about their idiotic fumbling towards "ever deeper unity" is pathetic.
 
clownboy said:
I know this was a terrible tragedy, but I don't see how this is the fault of any EU nation. These people are not their problem and they shouldn't have to absorb Africa's lowest common denominator.
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Well that can be debated since all of the African countries involved are former colonies who were left to fend for themselves by their masters and have never really recovered from that.
 
PeteEU said:
Well that can be debated since all of the African countries involved are former colonies who were left to fend for themselves by their masters and have never really recovered from that.
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Name one that was any better off before they were colonized or worse off after they were. And they should be fending for themselves if they want to have their own nations.

What they've never recovered from is their own demise at their own hands. Many of these nations once had advanced civilizations but had long ago passed that phase and descended into a more primitive phase. That's not the fault of any EU nation.
 
PeteEU said:
Clearly not, since you blame the EU for everything. Details matter, especially in this case if people are to learn why those poor people have died.



No again, you use the "blame EU". Who organized it that way? Oh the majority in Northern Europe, not the freaking EU. In fact the EU, aka the EU commission has been for decades pushing for changes and voicing its concern, but the Northern Europe countries, with the UK and Germany in front have refused to do anything.



The Euro has absolutely nothing to do with the situation nor the recession. Your problem with the EU yet again shows its ugly face.



Yes it is an European problem and it is VERY EASY to identify which members are the problem, if the media were not blind and dumb on the situation.. which they are. The problem is a lack of co-ordination due to the lack of political will from Germany and the UK, with the rest of Northern Europe following behind. France use to be part of the gang, but has the last half decade pushed for more coordination.. which is why they are not "doing much" at the Calais border, since the UK refuses to do anything.
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Nobody says that the EU does not have members as do Euroland and Schengenland with a mess of overlapping and sometimes contradictory responsibilities of the various memberships. That does not mean that you can point at a country that refused to join Schengenland for not paying for problems that to a good extent result from that treaty. It is the messed up and arrogantly dilettante wEuropean countries organized the continent that makes one and all members responsible. So yes. It is the EU (and its members).
And again, you are wrong that the Euro induced recession is not responsible for the stagnating economies' leading to even worse fiscal positions in a number of countries like Italy and Greece who have been forced to cut spending on many things. One of these things has been the Schengenland boarders.
 
PeteEU said:
LOL the French were not the "major instigators", the US was and always has been thanks to the bull**** "Arab spring" push by Bush Jr.
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So you're saying Dubya caused millions of Arabs throughout the Middle East to rise up against their oppressors? Wouldn't they have to regard him as some sort of prophet or something? :lol:

PeteEU said:
In fact the Italians and French warned about getting involved but when Gaddafi threatened to slaughter a whole city, then something had to be done and they were convinced. It was NATO who bombed, but NATO does nothing without the approval of the White House (not to mention NATO is fully dependent on US logistics and command and control).
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If that's true, then why was the French foreign minister publicly pleading for intervention by the U.S. and other major powers? You're drinking the Kool-Aid again, Pete. ;)

France pleads for military intervention as Gaddafi forces attack Libyan rebels - The Washington Post
 
PeteEU said:
LOL the French were not the "major instigators", the US was and always has been thanks to the bull**** "Arab spring" push by Bush Jr.
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The Arab Spring was in 2011...
 
clownboy said:
And isn't that minister correct? Wouldn't it indeed encourage more to come?
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Talk about cynical. He's basically saying let them drown so as to serve as a warning. And, considering that the numbers of these migrants are rising and we've just witnessed one of the worst maritime disasters since WWII, that strategy doesn't seem to be working too well.
 
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