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Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

The problem with his argument is that tourists spend far more money to take pictures of elephants than hunters spend to kill them. Even in the United States wildlife watchers spend more money than hunters. Americans Spent a Lot of Money on Hunting, Fishing, and Wildlife Watching in 2011 | Outside Online

I am not saying that there are times when problem elephants must be killed or herds must be culled due to overpopulation, but that is largely not the case in Zimbabwe.



Like I said, I don't know a lot about what goes on in Zimbabwe. If I had that kind of money, I might be interested in hunting an elephant (that needed hunting, for population management reasons/etc), but I wouldn't knowingly go after one at a mismanaged park where the population wasn't being properly maintained.


I don't doubt that they are among the smarter land animals on the planet, but to me they are still animals. Pigs, for example are a lot smarter than they're usually given credit for, probably far smarter than cows, but we hunt wild ones here as "varmints" (no bag limit or season/etc) due to their negative impact on the local ecology. Coyotes ditto, and they're pretty clever buggers.
 
I was more talking of the big game. Elephants, tigers, lions...

If you eat deer etc..I dont have as much of an issue and understand..., as Im NOT a vegan and enjoy meat. but Im torn as Im very sensitive to the suffering and plight of animals



Yeah I don't know. I don't have that kind of money that an African safari is in my future, but I have daydreamed about it once in a while.

On the one hand, taking down an elephant, lion, tiger or hippo is appealing as a great hunting accomplishment. They're cunning, not easy to kill, and potentially very dangerous. Taking one would be quite a rush.

OTOH the very reason that they ARE such magnificent animals would make me a little reluctant to actually kill one. Tigers especially... incredibly beautiful creatures.


But the paintball idea wouldn't work on those guys... good way to piss them off and get killed. :)
 
Like I said, I don't know a lot about what goes on in Zimbabwe. If I had that kind of money, I might be interested in hunting an elephant (that needed hunting, for population management reasons/etc), but I wouldn't knowingly go after one at a mismanaged park where the population wasn't being properly maintained.


I don't doubt that they are among the smarter land animals on the planet, but to me they are still animals. Pigs, for example are a lot smarter than they're usually given credit for, probably far smarter than cows, but we hunt wild ones here as "varmints" (no bag limit or season/etc) due to their negative impact on the local ecology. Coyotes ditto, and they're pretty clever buggers.

Yeah pigs are crazy smart, they are smarter than dogs. However, they are also a feral introduced species so they are not just destroying habitat and crops, they are not even supposed to be part of our wild ecosystem to begin with.
 
If I didn't want the meat, I might do something like that. Sometimes when you go out "scouting" (that is, looking for signs of animals you might hunt later when season is in), you take pictures.

A lot of hunters DO want the meat, though, and since a chance to take a good shot and get it doesn't come along every hunt...

Not killing would also defeat the conservation purpose of thinning the herds so they don't overpopulate and starve...

Not only that, bur for these big game hunts, it seems that often times the animal is butchered and the meat is given out to the local tribes; so it is consumed.
 
I seriously doubt the trophy hunter killed in the OP was just about to do that



Let nature sort it out then as it always does. Defining hunting as some kind of conservational altruism is way too much of a reach to be credible frankly


AHHHHHHHH... the ignorance is so astounding..... AHHHHHHHH.

Okay... let me educate you on "nature sorting it out"... first of all... we humans are a part of nature.. and we have changed how nature works from historical norms. Not only with decreased predators as before as Goshin points out...

but we have changed the habitat dramatically.. AND YOU ARE PART OF THAT. Five hundred years ago.. before the explosion of humans on your continent... say a red stag population had natural predators that kept it in balance.. along with food supplies, etc..

When the elk herd suffered a bad winter, it had numbers die.. but many survived because the herd simply moved to areas with less snow. IF predation became to high, the herd dispersed to other areas, etc.

That process DOES NOT WORK KNOW BECAUSE YOU LIVE THERE. That's right... because you have a house, you have a job, you drive roads, so on and so forth... you have modified wildlife habitat. NOW when a population gets too large for a carrying capacity... it doesn't have a way to disperse.. it doesn't have a way to avoid the bad winter, or increased predation, or a myriad of other challenges. And so what happens? Massive die offs... and eventual extinction.
 
AHHHHHHHH... the ignorance is so astounding..... AHHHHHHHH.

Okay... let me educate you on "nature sorting it out"... first of all... we humans are a part of nature.. and we have changed how nature works from historical norms. Not only with decreased predators as before as Goshin points out...

but we have changed the habitat dramatically.. AND YOU ARE PART OF THAT. Five hundred years ago.. before the explosion of humans on your continent... say a red stag population had natural predators that kept it in balance.. along with food supplies, etc..

When the elk herd suffered a bad winter, it had numbers die.. but many survived because the herd simply moved to areas with less snow. IF predation became to high, the herd dispersed to other areas, etc.

That process DOES NOT WORK KNOW BECAUSE YOU LIVE THERE. That's right... because you have a house, you have a job, you drive roads, so on and so forth... you have modified wildlife habitat. NOW when a population gets too large for a carrying capacity... it doesn't have a way to disperse.. it doesn't have a way to avoid the bad winter, or increased predation, or a myriad of other challenges. And so what happens? Massive die offs... and eventual extinction.

Was the OP about hunting Elk then ? No it was about a trophy hunter being killed by an elephant in Africa. What a pity it wasn't this one

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What is wrong with these people ! :2mad:
 
That is not what an elephant is doing. Unlike the cow, the elephant is smart enough to know that the fence charger itself is what powers the fence therefor they go after the device that powers the fence itself. Us and elephants are the only animals on earth that are that clever.

As to the intelligence of elephants, scientists are studying them extensively.

The Science Is In: Elephants Are Even Smarter Than We Realized [Video] - Scientific American
Elephant cognition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




So you would kill an animal with the intellect of a child. Sorry, but like I say, I am no way anti-hunting. I hunt myself and fish all the time. But I don't think you will find many hunters that will agree with you on this.

I think you will find most hunters will agree with me on this... what you are doing is anthropomorphizing.

By the way.. I have cows and pigs that have learned how to open gates... so your argument that "only dumb animals" should be hunted or used as food.. is pretty invalid.

Why do you think its fundamentally wrong to hunt an animal that's cunning and smart? Seriously.. I want to understand you logic on this one. Where does your rationale end? You say you hunt... well deer are smarter than butterflies.. do you really think we need to have a IQ test before an animal can be hunted?

Personally, I think it comes down to science etc and proper conservation management.
 
Was the OP about hunting Elk then ? No it was about a trophy hunter being killed by an elephant in Africa. What a pity it wasn't this one

View attachment 67183487

What is wrong with these people ! :2mad:

Wishing for the death of hunters is pretty darn messed up, IMO.

Are you just regurgitating Ricky Gervais' tweets here?
 
Was the OP about hunting Elk then ? No it was about a trophy hunter being killed by an elephant in Africa. What a pity it wasn't this one

View attachment 67183487

What is wrong with these people ! :2mad:



Why do you hate pretty blond girls?
 
Was the OP about hunting Elk then ? No it was about a trophy hunter being killed by an elephant in Africa. What a pity it wasn't this one

View attachment 67183487

What is wrong with these people ! :2mad:

Ohh the ignorance. I think you need to do a bit of research but I think that particular picture is of a rhino that was hunted and darted with a tranquilizer, and it was part of a large conservation effort to protect rhinos.

However, to a larger question... the same processes for the reason for elk hunting and elk conversation are the same processes and reasons for elephant hunting, antelope hunting and other big game hunting in Africa. In fact.... its probably more of a factor since these countries rely on hunting by foreigners for their conservation dollars to protect and manage these animals and their habitat.

So far.. all you have is emotion and a complete lack of facts.
 
Why do you hate pretty blond girls?

It's Rebecca Francis, Ricky Gervais recently made headlines by making some long list of harassing tweets about her because she hunted. Despite the fact that most of that meat ended up being consumed by poor tribes people of the area.
 
Yeah I don't know. I don't have that kind of money that an African safari is in my future, but I have daydreamed about it once in a while.

On the one hand, taking down an elephant, lion, tiger or hippo is appealing as a great hunting accomplishment. They're cunning, not easy to kill, and potentially very dangerous. Taking one would be quite a rush.

OTOH the very reason that they ARE such magnificent animals would make me a little reluctant to actually kill one. Tigers especially... incredibly beautiful creatures.


But the paintball idea wouldn't work on those guys... good way to piss them off and get killed. :)

Thank you for the thoughtful response and honesty...I understand that "stinging" the animal with a paintball could be dangerous....
 
Ohh the ignorance. I think you need to do a bit of research but I think that particular picture is of a rhino that was hunted and darted with a tranquilizer, and it was part of a large conservation effort to protect rhinos.

Nope. It was quite dead and she killed it. It wasn't her first either

However, to a larger question... the same processes for the reason for elk hunting and elk conversation are the same processes and reasons for elephant hunting, antelope hunting and other big game hunting in Africa. In fact.... its probably more of a factor since these countries rely on hunting by foreigners for their conservation dollars to protect and manage these animals and their habitat.

I don't believe for a moment that this persons motivation for shooting a very endangered Rhino had the slightest thing to do with conservation. Given her track record it just ticked another box and filled another gap in her wall :(
 
Nope. It was quite dead and she killed it. It wasn't her first either



I don't believe for a moment that this persons motivation for shooting a very endangered Rhino had the slightest thing to do with conservation. Given her track record it just ticked another box and filled another gap in her wall :(

I would like a link please... hunting and killing a rhino would be exceedingly rare...

Second of all..if it was done... it wasn't endangered in the region it was living.. and was part of a management policy.

Again.. you have no answer for any of the logical points I have made... the end result is that hunting and hunters are valuable conservationists. Whether or not one particular individual does the right thing and helps conservation efforts because they want a trophy or because like most hunters they have a deeper understanding.. is immaterial. At the end of the day.. it is a boon to the environment and to species management.

Your argument is like arguing that we should do away with charitable organizations because some people do it because they want their name on a building.
 
I would like a link please... hunting and killing a rhino would be exceedingly rare...

"Jones says her first kill was a rare African white rhino, part of her quest to bag the Big 5 African game animals (rhino, elephant, Cape buffalo, leopard and lion)"


Texas cheerleader who shared images of exotic animals she had killed 'has received a death threat from Real Housewives' Joanna Krupa' | Daily Mail Online

Second of all..if it was done... it wasn't endangered in the region it was living.. and was part of a management policy.

BS. There are far too few of these creatures left extant anywhere for their numbers to be an issue

Again.. you have no answer for any of the logical points I have made... the end result is that hunting and hunters are valuable conservationists. Whether or not one particular individual does the right thing and helps conservation efforts because they want a trophy or because like most hunters they have a deeper understanding.. is immaterial. At the end of the day.. it is a boon to the environment and to species management.

Dress it up anyway you like if it makes you feel better. Killing endangered Rhino's and Leopards has nothing whatsoever to do with conservation. Just the love of killing for fun in order to 'bag the big five' as she put it

Sick :(
 
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"Jones says her first kill was a rare African white rhino, part of her quest to bag the Big 5 African game animals (rhino, elephant, Cape buffalo, leopard and lion)"

Which us why she should die, yeah? :roll:

So she wanted to hunt the big 5, it's legal. Plus legal hunting of the white rhino is extremely regulated to ensure proper and humane hunting practices.

You don't like it, so you call it barbaric and you say things like too bad this girl wasn't the one killed, which is far more barbaric than regulated hunting practices.
 
Which us why she should die, yeah? :roll:

So she wanted to hunt the big 5, it's legal. Plus legal hunting of the white rhino is extremely regulated to ensure proper and humane hunting practices.

You don't like it, so you call it barbaric and you say things like too bad this girl wasn't the one killed, which is far more barbaric than regulated hunting practices.

By all means continue to defend the indefensible and whitewash her neanderthal motivations all you like. She has already said and done plenty to condemn herself :roll:
 
By all means continue to defend the indefensible and whitewash her neanderthal motivations all you like. She has already said and done plenty to condemn herself :roll:

And by all means continue to wish for the death of hunters, something completely indefensible and whitewash your Neanderthal motivations all you want.
 
And by all means continue to wish for the death of hunters, something completely indefensible and whitewash your Neanderthal motivations all you want.

I respect all life. I disrespect those who take it for fun. I'm therefore as indifferent to the fate of this morally ambiguous individual as I would be to that of a Japanese whaler
 
I respect all life. I disrespect those who take it for fun. I'm therefore as indifferent to the fate of this morally ambiguous individual as I would be to that of a Japanese whaler

If you respected all life, you wouldn't have wished that it was that girl that died. That's just callous, Me vs. Them behaviorism that has been with man since we climbed out of the trees.
 
You don't like it, so you call it barbaric and you say things like too bad this girl wasn't the one killed, which is far more barbaric than regulated hunting practices.
Hmm..I think humans killing for "sport" is far more "barbaric" than an animal killing in self defense.
 
If you respected all life, you wouldn't have wished that it was that girl that died. That's just callous, Me vs. Them behaviorism that has been with man since we climbed out of the trees.
Wait a minute, is not sport killing the more twisted version of "me v. them"?
 
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