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Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

Yep... it probably makes her proud. I know I would be. And yes.. she is very conservation minded.

Its attitudes like yours that have led in part to the extinction and continued extinction of animals all over the planet.

that's the worst part about it... those whom object are the very ones whose idea of banning such hunting leads to decreased survivability of herds... and they can't for the life of them understand why that is.

it's not a very good idea to replace science with personal emotions..
 
People die needlessly every year climbing mountains. We know it can be done, why do it?

Because they endanger nothing but themselves. If stupid people want to voluntarily endanger themselves who am I to argue
 
that's the worst part about it... those whom object are the very ones whose idea of banning such hunting leads to decreased survivability of herds... and they can't for the life of them understand why that is.

it's not a very good idea to replace science with personal emotions..

This is nothing to do with the love of hunting or conservation and everything to do with a love of killing. Having seen elephants and giraffes in the wild in Kenya there is no hunting involved in finding them because they are large easy to find and dont tend to run away :roll:
 
Just to point out that what you described was most likely completely illegal.. and at the very least completely unethical and you would be hard pressed to find any hunting organization that would support the above and would most likely be adamantly against it.

No it was quite legal in South Africa and broadcast on the BBC on the Louis Theroux show if memory serves
 
Yep... it probably makes her proud. I know I would be. And yes.. she is very conservation minded.

Its the killing that makes her proud all the rest is just apologism to excuse that base desire :(
 
Lots of people try to rationalize lack of empathy for their fellow man. There are various reasons for the floppy morality, mostly dealing with either emotional outburst or trying to reverse engineer an argument. As I said, I wouldn't necessarily say it's a good thing. Even murderers deserve some amount of empathy, I'm not for needless torture or suffering imposed upon them; they are still human.

That is your opinion, I think he hunts an endangered species (vulnerable with some sources saying the animal could be wiped out in the wild in 10 years or so) and that makes him not deserving of my empathy for loosing his life while hunting elephants. I do not wish death upon him and I am sorry if his death has been painful, but the only ones I feel sorry for is his family.

You may not agree with that but that is the great thing of humanity, we can agree to disagree. I would have wished he had not died but I do not feel sorry for him now that he has died during the hunting of an elephant.
 
There is a distinct possibility that the elephant owes its existance to managed big game hunting. Several African countries protect their herds very well and now there are more elephants locally than the range can support. They are now eating crops.

Well thought out big game hunting not only allows the local elephant herds to be managed, but as big game hunts are very expensive permit wise and involve alot of "over the top" luxury accomodations, they bring alot of money into the local economy. As another poster mentioned, the people in the area then see the animals as a renewable recesource that they need to protect- instead of viewing them as 10 ton pests.


The local guides, the local schools, and the local clinic are probably also proud that they have a renewable natural recourse that people want to pay big money to harvest (Ok, to shoot).

Modern Big Game outfitters not only practice responsible herd management, but they regularly involve the local people in all aspects of the industry and also make donations to local schoools, clinics etc. According to a business friend that I knew 12 years ago, permits to hunt "Big Five" type game run upto $35,000 dollars. Predator permits were even more. Needless to say, the prices are even higher today- which is more incentive for local people to protect their (not PETA's) renewable natural recesources.

Managed would be fine but when I read:

Long-awaited study suggests that many of the continent's elephant populations could be wiped out in ten years.

The most comprehensive survey of elephant poaching to date has estimated that 100,000 African elephants were illegally killed between 2010 and 2012.

African elephant numbers collapsing : Nature News & Comment

During 2011 alone, roughly one of every twelve African elephants was killed by a poacher.

100,000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years, Landmark Analysis Finds

So sorry, but I am not a supporter of hunting these animals without there being a need to do so and if someone dies during one of those hunts, then I am sorry, he took the risk to do what he did and this time the elephant won and he lost.
 
This is nothing to do with the love of hunting or conservation and everything to do with a love of killing. Having seen elephants and giraffes in the wild in Kenya there is no hunting involved in finding them because they are large easy to find and dont tend to run away :roll:

you are entitled to your opinion.. i'll stick with settled science on the matter.
 
Nonsense. Unless someone is poaching (the real crime) the locals get the animal, end of story. Does not matter who shoots it. Thinning the herd is as necessary for them as it is for deer here.

I used to go to Columbia with my late father to do dove shooting. high volume dove shooting. Doves have no real natural predators down there and breed every couple of months. They were taking 30-50% of the farm produce down there. So farmers started poisoning the doves. Hawks and vultures that ate dead doves died. It was a mess. Then some guys, including a Cornell and TExas AM agricultural science graduate, who was the son of a former President came up with an idea. Have dove shooting trips for American hunters. Unlike say England where each partridge costs 10 pounds a piece, the doves were free-you paid merely for the shells and the accommodations plus the guide's fee. Local farm boys were hired to pick up the doves and they got to keep for their families what they picked. up. I remember one boy who was on every one of the 10 times I went down there between 1981 and 1995 (the violence sent us to Bolivia for our last trip-I understand things are better there now and I might take my son now that my father has passed and he used to take my brother and I down there). when I first met him he was a 11 year old boy-his father was foreman on one of the big plantations down there that mainly grew sorghum which is used to feed the big chicken industry. in 1995 he was a Captain in what would be their version of the Special forces but he was home on leave

I asked him why he was still picking up birds and he (his English had got much better and he had been trained by our military after he entered the army) said his family would have meat for months with three days of work. I also understood enough Spanish when he told Alberto (on my second time down there) he wanted to be assigned to "Señor Turtle" because "he kills the most birds.

But he told me that since the hunting parties had come to the small agricultural town he grew up in, the standard of living had gone up since the hunters brought money and provided a source of employment for some of the boys who were not able to get jobs on the farms or the military
 
if the hunter is a licensed professional, the country where he is licensed has approved hunting that species.

Yes, I know. What's your point? Mine was that we shouldn't be hunting endangered elephants.
 
I grew up hunting but we did not hunt anything that mourned it's dead. An elephant is nearly as smart as we are, they form very close family groups, and they mourn their dead. It just doesn't seem right to hunt any creature like that. Moreover, because of the ivory trade, they are at risk of being extirpated in the wild so hunting them is not fulfilling a predatory thinning the herd purpose like hunting deer does.

Anyone that disagrees with this ought to read The Elephant Whisperer:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/125000781X...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_118bq222ti_b
 
Yes, I know. What's your point? Mine was that we shouldn't be hunting endangered elephants.

I don't think your opinion has any merit compared to that of the country that the elephants are contained in

by definition, the elephant is not endangered if a country is allowing the hunting

My opinion, Americans who are clueless about the game issues in Africa have no relevance to the issue
 
Elephants are endangered!

Not where hunting them is legal.

Where hunting elephants is illegal they are 5 ton prairie dogs, they destroy the livelihoods of farmers and are a pest.

Where hunting them is legal they are an economic resource
 
Not where hunting them is legal.

Where hunting elephants is illegal they are 5 ton prairie dogs, they destroy the livelihoods of farmers and are a pest.

Where hunting them is legal they are an economic resource

Does a prairie dog mourn its dead? Is a prairie dog capable of empathy and every single emotion we human's experience? As I stated earlier, I grew up hunting, damn near everyone in my family hunts, but killing a creature that is nearly as smart as we are, that deeply mourns its dead, and that experiences every single emotion that we experience just aint right. Its wrong. Its not comparable to killing prairie dogs, or whitetail deer, or rabbits, or squirrel or any of the animals we hunt over here.
 
Not where hunting them is legal.

Where hunting elephants is illegal they are 5 ton prairie dogs, they destroy the livelihoods of farmers and are a pest.

Where hunting them is legal they are an economic resource

Yep, my dad shot an elephant in Kenya. He did not go there with the intention of hunting elephant. he went there to hunt stuff like Kudu and other edible game. But his hunter (Steven Smith) noted that an elephant had gone "rogue" and the authorities had asked Smith and other professional hunters to be on the watch for this elephant. The elephant had been injured by a snare set by poachers that had caused a vicious infection in the animal's foot. Well they found it and my father shot it with a 458. He then paid the license fee which was something like the equivalent of 250 pounds sterling in 1967. My mother sold the tusks to some scam artist after my father died for one tenth of what they were worth but the point is-Kenya got a hefty fee for that resource and the villagers who had been terrorized by this animal were relieved of that menace.


I will also note that when Kenya agreed to shut down "the ivory trade" thousands of pounds of elephant ivory was still being exported. in 1976 or 77, the man we hunted with came across poachers trying to set snares for elephants and they made the mistake of firing at him. Well after the constabulary took custody of the dead poachers, the chief of the local police informed this hunter that "he could no longer guarantee Mr Smith's safety in Kenya" It turned out that the poachers were part of Mrs Kenyatta's personal guard and the rifles taken by the police were rifles that were issued to said guard. The hunter moved to the RSA (he had held a British Passport) where he returned to his profession until he was killed in a traffic accident.

Corrupt African governments are far more dangerous to elephants than licensed hunters
 
according to whom? don't you think a nation has the power to determine how its resources are managed?

You should educate yourself on African Elephants. They are not like the whitetail deer in your backyard. They are nearly as smart as we are. They experience every emotion we do. They are self aware. They are capable of empathy and have a notion of right and wrong. They also mourn their dead. I have no problem with hunting. I grew up hunting, most of my friends hunt, most of my family hunts. But in my opinion a creature like an elephant ought to enjoy every right to life that we enjoy. If you experience the same emotions, family ties, and mourn your dead just like we humans do, then you ought to have the same right to life that we humans enjoy and unless that elephant is a clear danger to people, it shouldn't be killed.
 

that's not the issue. the issue is buttinskis from America trying to tell other countries how to act. Your opinion has no merit over there. Its like gun banners from England whining about our rights concerning guns.

and legal hunting isn't the problem

did you actually read the article you quoted

African elephants could be extinct in the wild within a few decades, experts have warned at a major conservation summit in Botswana that has highlighted an alarming decline in numbers due to poaching for ivory.
 
You should educate yourself on African Elephants. They are not like the whitetail deer in your backyard. They are nearly as smart as we are. They experience every emotion we do. They are self aware. They are capable of empathy and have a notion of right and wrong. They also mourn their dead. I have no problem with hunting. I grew up hunting, most of my friends hunt, most of my family hunts. But in my opinion a creature like an elephant ought to enjoy every right to life that we enjoy. If you experience the same emotions, family ties, and mourn your dead just like we humans do, then you ought to have the same right to life that we humans enjoy and unless that elephant is a clear danger to people, it shouldn't be killed.



you claim they are nearly as smart as we are and you are telling ME to become educated. how much time have you actually spent in the AFrican Bush around elephants?
 
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