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Police and "Free Range" Children

azgreg said:
How about this exchange:

Police Officer: Hey kids, you lost?
kids: Nope.
PO: Where you going?
K: Home.
PO: You know the way?
K: Yep.
PO: Does your folks know where you are?
K: Yep.
PO: OK now, be careful.
K: Thanks Mr. policeman.

or

The police put the kids in the back seat of a cruiser for 3 hours and keep them away from their parents for 6 hours all without food.

Hmmm, which is better?
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This was a ten year old, for all we know they told the officer that they were lost and they didn't know where they lived. There's no harm done here, it doesn't have to turn into a huge political issue. There was a case recently where they attempted to prosecute a mother for letting her kid walk to the park, and that's certainly going too far. But no charges have been filed in this case, the intention has been to protect the children as far as I see it.
 
Dovkan said:
It doesn't help that junk food is cheap and constantly pushed onto children/parents.. Helicopter parenting can be justified in some cases, depending on where the child lives.
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Which is unfortunate, in that nothing like these childhood experiences form children, and thereby adults, who are far more self sufficient.
 
Tsunami said:
This was a ten year old, for all we know they told the officer that they were lost and they didn't know where they lived. There's no harm done here, it doesn't have to turn into a huge political issue. There was a case recently where they attempted to prosecute a mother for letting her kid walk to the park, and that's certainly going too far. But no charges have been filed in this case, the intention has been to protect the children as far as I see it.
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A “free range” family fights back: “The police coerced our children into the back of a patrol car” - Salon.com

“The police coerced our children into the back of a patrol car, telling them they would drive them home. They kept the kids trapped there for three hours, without notifying us, before dropping them at the Crisis Center, and holding them there without dinner for another two and a half hours. We finally got home at 11pm and the kids slept in our room because we were all exhausted and terrified.”
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Yep, no harm done. :roll: You're right charges haven't been brought but don't be surprised if the Meitiv's don't sue.
 
azgreg said:
A “free range” family fights back: “The police coerced our children into the back of a patrol car” - Salon.com

Yep, no harm done. :roll: You're right charges haven't been brought but don't be surprised if the Meitiv's don't sue.
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Other than the emoticon I don't see any evidence of harm. Coerced doesn't mean forced. This is the reason why people keep calling the police and thinking these kids are in danger. Because this time it was a cop with the children's best interest in mind coercing them into his car, next time it could easily be a pedophile.

Particularly after the media keeps reporting who these kids are and which parks they are walking home alone from.
 
Tsunami said:
Other than the emoticon I don't see any evidence of harm. Coerced doesn't mean forced. This is the reason why people keep calling the police and thinking these kids are in danger. Because this time it was a cop with the children's best interest in mind coercing them into his car, next time it could easily be a pedophile.

Particularly after the media keeps reporting who these kids are and which parks they are walking home alone from.
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Nice straw man. Kids being detained for 6 hours without food and being kept from their parents can't possibly have any effect on them.
 
Tsunami said:
Other than the emoticon I don't see any evidence of harm. Coerced doesn't mean forced. This is the reason why people keep calling the police and thinking these kids are in danger. Because this time it was a cop with the children's best interest in mind coercing them into his car, next time it could easily be a pedophile.

Particularly after the media keeps reporting who these kids are and which parks they are walking home alone from.
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So are you saying that kids shouldn't be allowed out of the house alone? They were 2-3 blocks away from home on their way home. Why did they need to go to the crisis center?
 
azgreg said:
Nice straw man. Kids being detained for 6 hours without food and being kept from their parents can't possibly have any effect on them.
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Yours is the straw man. I said there's no evidence of harm, not that there's no way it wasn't good for them. You don't know what the conversation was between the kids and the officer, you are jumping to conclusions. The police have been called on these kids before for some reason, so at least two people and now two officers thought they were in danger. The state has a compelling interest to investigate these things, last time it was filed as "unsubstantiated" but sometimes there is actual abuse. They can't know without checking.

Montecresto said:
So are you saying that kids shouldn't be allowed out of the house alone? They were 2-3 blocks away from home on their way home. Why did they need to go to the crisis center?
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I don't know the kids, and I don't know why they were taken to the crisis center. I'm not saying that no kid should be allowed to play outside alone, I roamed the neighborhood freely in my own past. But two citizens who did see the kids thought they should call the police, and two police who investigated the situation thought they should contact the CPS. I give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Tsunami said:
Yours is the straw man. I said there's no evidence of harm, not that there's no way it wasn't good for them. You don't know what the conversation was between the kids and the officer, you are jumping to conclusions. The police have been called on these kids before for some reason, so at least two people and now two officers thought they were in danger. The state has a compelling interest to investigate these things, last time it was filed as "unsubstantiated" but sometimes there is actual abuse. They can't know without checking.
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For the same heinous reason of walking home from the park.

I don't know the kids, and I don't know why they were taken to the crisis center. I'm not saying that no kid should be allowed to play outside alone, I roamed the neighborhood freely in my own past. But two citizens who did see the kids thought they should call the police, and two police who investigated the situation thought they should contact the CPS. I give them the benefit of the doubt.
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This is clear overreaction from the police. Nothing less.
 
Tsunami said:
Yours is the straw man. I said there's no evidence of harm, not that there's no way it wasn't good for them. You don't know what the conversation was between the kids and the officer, you are jumping to conclusions. The police have been called on these kids before for some reason, so at least two people and now two officers thought they were in danger. The state has a compelling interest to investigate these things, last time it was filed as "unsubstantiated" but sometimes there is actual abuse. They can't know without checking.



I don't know the kids, and I don't know why they were taken to the crisis center. I'm not saying that no kid should be allowed to play outside alone, I roamed the neighborhood freely in my own past. But two citizens who did see the kids thought they should call the police, and two police who investigated the situation thought they should contact the CPS. I give them the benefit of the doubt.
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The police remained silent about their possession of the children for hours. Think the parents weren't worried?
 
azgreg said:
For the same heinous reason of walking home from the park.
This is clear overreaction from the police. Nothing less.
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I can agree that this was an overreaction, but I also think the outrage caused by this is an overreaction. There are thousands of kids playing outside alone, for some reason these two particular children have had the police called on them twice. I don't know why that is, but I don't condemn the police for investigating, even if that means they had to sit in a car for a few hours.

Montecresto said:
The police remained silent about their possession of the children for hours. Think the parents weren't worried?
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Maybe a little worrying would be good. If there is such a thing as overprotective parents then there must also be underprotective parents. I don't know enough about the local community to say this is true in this particular case, but I do know that if you don't watch your children then you should be prepared to worry when they don't return on time. If that worry is caused by the police, consider yourself lucky, not violated.
 
Tsunami said:
I can agree that this was an overreaction, but I also think the outrage caused by this is an overreaction. There are thousands of kids playing outside alone, for some reason these two particular children have had the police called on them twice. I don't know why that is, but I don't condemn the police for investigating, even if that means they had to sit in a car for a few hours.

Maybe a little worrying would be good. If there is such a thing as overprotective parents then there must also be underprotective parents. I don't know enough about the local community to say this is true in this particular case, but I do know that if you don't watch your children then you should be prepared to worry when they don't return on time. If that worry is caused by the police, consider yourself lucky, not violated.
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The cops didn't contact the parents for hours!! Do you understand this?
 
Tsunami said:
Yours is the straw man. I said there's no evidence of harm, not that there's no way it wasn't good for them. You don't know what the conversation was between the kids and the officer, you are jumping to conclusions. The police have been called on these kids before for some reason, so at least two people and now two officers thought they were in danger. The state has a compelling interest to investigate these things, last time it was filed as "unsubstantiated" but sometimes there is actual abuse. They can't know without checking.



I don't know the kids, and I don't know why they were taken to the crisis center. I'm not saying that no kid should be allowed to play outside alone, I roamed the neighborhood freely in my own past. But two citizens who did see the kids thought they should call the police, and two police who investigated the situation thought they should contact the CPS. I give them the benefit of the doubt.
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the officers violated several of the kids rights and now will be made example of.

detained without cause.
not allowed a phone call
no legal representation
and the list goes on.
 
Free Range Children......or, as they were known prior to like 2000, Children.

Sigh.

The wonders of the Maryland Government, the #2 reason I'd never want to live in Maryland (#1...it puts me closer to that ghastly Baltimore accent hon)
 
You know what I call kids running around, going to/from home without a parent? Saturday
 
If the police were so concerned, they should have just followed the kids or went up to them and ask them if they were OK.

They would likely have just followed them home, or they would have been there when any of the thousands of kidnappers in Maryland tried to molest the kids. I think the correct term is bait.
 
azgreg said:
They should have gave them the chair.
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Why not just pre emptively shoot them because who knows what they may get up to in later life after this ? They might do heinous things like shoplift ,fail to pay their child maintenance, run away from police or just walk around naked who knows ? :cool:
 
Dovkan said:
What does this have to do with CPS? CPS works wonderfully for the majority of children. This is about police officers.
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It was in your link:

"Danielle and Alexander Meitiv were “rightfully outraged by the irresponsible actions” of Maryland Child Protective Services and Montgomery County police, said attorney Matthew Dowd, of the firm Wiley Rein, in a written statement."
 
Tsunami said:
Maybe a little worrying would be good.
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I see or believe that someone is kidnapping my children, I shoot first. I find it interesting that I'm having to explain this to a self-described libertarian, but no, a "little worrying" about whether or not the state is going to snatch your children off the street and hold them without telling you is not "good".
 
Blemonds said:
It was in your link:

"Danielle and Alexander Meitiv were “rightfully outraged by the irresponsible actions” of Maryland Child Protective Services and Montgomery County police, said attorney Matthew Dowd, of the firm Wiley Rein, in a written statement."
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This falls on the cops, because it wasn't the CPS that brought them into this crisis center. Imagine how terrified the parents were getting the call and picking them up from a "crisis center".
 
Comparing today's world with horse and buggy times (for some of us :) ) is a bit risky. Things have changed dramatically, and depending on where you live, it could be rather dangerous.
These free range parents seem to have a keen awareness of their surroundings and know their children. So let them have at it. Or at least they could have before all the media frenzy. Now that all predators are aware of these kids, more parental oversight may be necessary.
Look at the priorities though. Social workers and child safety advocates claim to be overworked, understaffed, underpaid. Why don't they focus their energy where it is desperately needed?
 
Samhain said:
You know what I call kids running around, going to/from home without a parent? Saturday
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Kushinator said:
This falls on the cops, because it wasn't the CPS that brought them into this crisis center. Imagine how terrified the parents were getting the call and picking them up from a "crisis center".
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Montecresto said:
So are you saying that kids shouldn't be allowed out of the house alone? They were 2-3 blocks away from home on their way home. Why did they need to go to the crisis center?
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My 12, 10 and 6 year old children are also "free range"- to a degree. They rountinely walk or bike ride to the local park with out me. They also ride their bikes with out helmets (despite a city ordinance requiring one). When we go hiking, they can be considerably up the trail from me if they know the area. With select friends who are mature (but also 12 years old), the older one can ride her bike a considerable ways from home

All that aside, I saw a video of the street that the children were walking on. The side walks were narrow and the street was very busy. Though this factor alone does not appear to justify the actions of the Maryland CPS, it does reduce my level of sympathy for the parents.
 
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Let me ask you this.
How do these free range parents compare to those who are too busy texting to mind their kids? Going to a grocery store alone, I could snatch purses and kids all day long.
 
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