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Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

True, but even if we had a 'non-engagement' policy, which didn't have any sanctions either, the Castro brothers would surely find some other external demon on which blame their self-inflicted lot. So I figure that's about even any way you cut it.



I'm not really against trade and diplomacy with Cuba, but in this international relationship, who's going to be the party that's going to gain the most? I really don't think that it's going to be the US. As such, then, Cuba needs to give some, such as releasing political prisoners, and other human rights issues, for example. Minimal cost, but something. Don't think that Obama's going to do that, or be able to do that.

i want to see a policy that actually does something good for the people who live in Cuba, and i see zero evidence that a continued embargo is going to accomplish that.
 
Yeah, I can see that, an idea being the most incestuous thing to try and stamp out in a totalitarian state. But is that form of mass communication effective at that, was all I was interested in.

Interesting to note that 'TheDemSocialist' applauding, if I don't miss my guess, the importation, seeding and spreading of capitalistic and liberty ideas in the former Socialistic, Communistic totalitarian states that were once behind the Iron Curtain. Interesting. :peace

Most of the former Soviet Block, ex Communist/Marxist-Leninist states were far from socialism, and communistic ideas. Most were totalitarian state nightmares giving no real power and liberation to the working classes, but all that is a discussion for another time.
 
i want to see a policy that actually does something good for the people who live in Cuba, and i see zero evidence that a continued embargo is going to accomplish that.

us opening full trade with cuba won't do that either.

there's lots of people who are not living under our definition of freedom or prosperity, there's no reason to force long term policy changes for that purpose.
 
us opening full trade with cuba won't do that either.

there's lots of people who are not living under our definition of freedom or prosperity, there's no reason to force long term policy changes for that purpose.

i'm still waiting to see how a fifty plus year old embargo does anything to promote capitalism in Cuba.
 
Boy, it must suck to be a political prisoner in Cuba. Just hoping, praying for the Castros to go away. And right near the end, Obama swoops in and saves the day! For the Castros and subsequent dictators of Cuba, that is.

Yep, Obama really put one over on them. Fooled them into letting us drop the sanctions, so they can reap in tons of money. And when that money starts rolling in, they won't keep it for themselves, or use it to further suppress the population, they will, of course, distribute it to the people! Because, you know, that's what dictators in a Police State do. Right?

And then, the secret plan unfolds. The youth will want blue jeans and toilet paper, and the dictator won't be able to stop them! Flowers and rainbows everywhere!
Obama, genius!!!

Or, maybe they keep the cash, tighten their grip on power, and play Obama for a fool. Nah, it'll be the rainbows!
 
i want to see a policy that actually does something good for the people who live in Cuba, and i see zero evidence that a continued embargo is going to accomplish that.

The best thing that could come to the people of Cuba would be their liberation from their present regime.
Economic sanctions haven't dislodged it.
Open trade with other western nations hasn't dislodged it.

You are thinking that open trading with the US will somehow have a different effect than trading with other western nations? :lamo

It'll be interesting when both Castro brothers can no longer lead the country, and what turn over of power will occur at that time. Can't be too far off, as aren't they both in their 80's?

Most of the former Soviet Block, ex Communist/Marxist-Leninist states were far from socialism, and communistic ideas. Most were totalitarian state nightmares giving no real power and liberation to the working classes, but all that is a discussion for another time.

Quite true.
 
I guess we'll see how this all pans out, but so far, it seems that Obama's been caving in to demands and getting little, if nothing, in return.

Cuba has an opportunity to reinvigorate their flagging economy, not the US, so wouldn't that put the onus on them to make some concessions to make this work? To make this happen?


Well, they should make some confessions about the type of business they are doing with Iran.




Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now.....


What about activity from seven months ago, does that count? As I noted yesterday, Cuba is in fact still a state sponsor of terror and its allies are enemies of the United States. One of those enemies is Iran, the world's biggest sponsor of terrorism against the U.S. and Israel around the world through Hezbollah and Hamas. More from the Center for Security Policy:

Iran, Cuba and Venezuela have developed a close and cooperative relationship against the U.S. and in support of terrorist groups and states. The three regimes increasingly coordinate their policies and resources in a three way partnership aimed at counteracting and circumventing U.S. policies in the Middle East and Latin America. Within this relationship, Cuba plays a strategic role in terms of geography (proximity to the U.S.), intelligence gathering (both electronic eavesdropping and human espionage) and logistics. .....snip~

Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now - Katie Pavlich
 
The best thing that could come to the people of Cuba would be their liberation from their present regime.
Economic sanctions haven't dislodged it.
Open trade with other western nations hasn't dislodged it.

and the embargo hasn't dislodged it, either. time to try something else.

You are thinking that open trading with the US will somehow have a different effect than trading with other western nations? :lamo

possibly. we're their closest neighbor and the biggest economic force in the hemisphere.

It'll be interesting when both Castro brothers can no longer lead the country, and what turn over of power will occur at that time. Can't be too far off, as aren't they both in their 80's?

i'm curious about that myself. maybe the combination of ending the embargo and the Castros exiting the scene will be enough to topple the dictatorship.
 
and the embargo hasn't dislodged it, either. time to try something else.



possibly. we're their closest neighbor and the biggest economic force in the hemisphere.



i'm curious about that myself. maybe the combination of ending the embargo and the Castros exiting the scene will be enough to topple the dictatorship.

All I can see the US gaining here in this softening of relations is influence with the follow on regime in the next few years.

Of course a transfer of power is something completely new to Cuba. They've never done that before, so I'm thinking that it isn't going to go very smoothly, but we'll have to see.
 
Well, they should make some confessions about the type of business they are doing with Iran.




Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now.....


What about activity from seven months ago, does that count? As I noted yesterday, Cuba is in fact still a state sponsor of terror and its allies are enemies of the United States. One of those enemies is Iran, the world's biggest sponsor of terrorism against the U.S. and Israel around the world through Hezbollah and Hamas. More from the Center for Security Policy:

Iran, Cuba and Venezuela have developed a close and cooperative relationship against the U.S. and in support of terrorist groups and states. The three regimes increasingly coordinate their policies and resources in a three way partnership aimed at counteracting and circumventing U.S. policies in the Middle East and Latin America. Within this relationship, Cuba plays a strategic role in terms of geography (proximity to the U.S.), intelligence gathering (both electronic eavesdropping and human espionage) and logistics. .....snip~

Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now - Katie Pavlich

I raised this very question.

This is little more than Obama playing politics so that he'll have at least one foreign policy 'win' (or appearance of a win anyway) for his legacy; his already badly tarnished legacy.

It does make me wonder what Cuba did to land on the US Terror List, and if they've changed their behavior or not.

So the answer seems to be that they really haven't, and it's just a political move for appearances sake and the usual lack of substance by Obama then (a lie). OK. Can't say that it's unexpected. Seems like all Obama does it lie anymore.
 
I raised this very question.



So the answer seems to be that they really haven't, and it's just a political move for appearances sake and the usual lack of substance by Obama then (a lie). OK. Can't say that it's unexpected. Seems like all Obama does it lie anymore.



Didn't they have like 600 arrests within the last couple of months? What does Amnesty International have to say?

Rubio announced he was Running for the Presidency. Said his First EO's would be undoing BO's over Cuba.
 
Well, they should make some confessions about the type of business they are doing with Iran.




Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now.....


What about activity from seven months ago, does that count? As I noted yesterday, Cuba is in fact still a state sponsor of terror and its allies are enemies of the United States. One of those enemies is Iran, the world's biggest sponsor of terrorism against the U.S. and Israel around the world through Hezbollah and Hamas. More from the Center for Security Policy:

Iran, Cuba and Venezuela have developed a close and cooperative relationship against the U.S. and in support of terrorist groups and states. The three regimes increasingly coordinate their policies and resources in a three way partnership aimed at counteracting and circumventing U.S. policies in the Middle East and Latin America. Within this relationship, Cuba plays a strategic role in terms of geography (proximity to the U.S.), intelligence gathering (both electronic eavesdropping and human espionage) and logistics. .....snip~

Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now - Katie Pavlich

Oh brother, the author of this article is really grasping at straws here. "Iran, Cuba, and Venezuela have good diplomatic relations, and we dont like them, therefore TERRORIST STATE!". :roll:
 
Oh brother, the author of this article is really grasping at straws here. "Iran, Cuba, and Venezuela have good diplomatic relations, and we dont like them, therefore TERRORIST STATE!". :roll:

Oh brother did you mean the Center For Security Policy is reaching for straws.....all due to saying that Cuba and Iran coordinate their policies to counteract or circumvent US Policy. So that would be like working together around US sanctions, huh? Not like that would be true, eh?




In addition to its proven technical prowess to interfere and intercept U.S. telecommunications, Cuba has deployed around the world a highly effective human intelligence network. The type of espionage carried out by Ana Belén Montes, the senior U.S. defense intelligence analyst who spied for Cuba during some 16 years until her arrest in 2001, has enabled the Castro regime to amass a wealth of intelligence on U.S. vulnerabilities as well as a keen understanding of the inner-workings of the U.S. security system. Such information and analysis was provided to Saddam Hussein prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq and is being provided to a strategic ally like Iran. While one may argue that factors such as Iran’s limited military capabilities and sheer distance diminish any conventional concerns, one should expect that Tehran, in case of a U.S.-Iran conflict would launch an asymmetrical offensive against the U.S. and its European allies through surrogate terrorist states and paramilitary organizations. In such a scenario, Cuban intelligence would be invaluable to Iran and its proxies and Cuban territory could be used by terrorist groups to launch operations against the U.S.

In an attempt to obtain unilateral concessions from the U.S., Gen. Raul Castro’s regime has toned down some of the violent anti-U.S. propaganda of older brother Fidel. Yet the commitments to and interrelationships with anti-American terrorist groups have not disappeared. They have taken a more sophisticated approach; many times using proxies such as Venezuelan supporters.

The U.S. should do well to remain alert and vigilant. Cuba’s proximity to the U.S. makes the island an ideal platform for hostile acts against the U.S. In the event of conflict with Iran and/or North Korea, two allies of Cuba, the Castro regime may be called upon to support its allies......snip~

Center for Security Policy | Cuba?s Support for Terrorism and the Venezuela-Iran Nexus
 
Didn't they have like 600 arrests within the last couple of months? What does Amnesty International have to say?

Rubio announced he was Running for the Presidency. Said his First EO's would be undoing BO's over Cuba.

It's true, that since the detente between US and Cuba, I've seen it reported that arrests for political agitation have seen a marked increase. So much for any compromises on the Cuban state's part.

What Amnesty International is saying? Not heard anything lately, but over the last few months, I believe, they've made some controversial accusations of some nations which you'd think were far less of a problem, being Democratic and all, and far fewer over what you'd think were far more egregious human rights violations, such as the taking of people's lives.
 
and the embargo hasn't dislodged it, either. time to try something else.



possibly. we're their closest neighbor and the biggest economic force in the hemisphere.



i'm curious about that myself. maybe the combination of ending the embargo and the Castros exiting the scene will be enough to topple the dictatorship.
I really have no problem with Obama opening ties with Cuba and I think opening the door to American will do more to destabilize the tyrants than empower them. That said, I would like to have seen us get something in return for this type of move.
 
Oh brother did you mean the Center For Security Policy is reaching for straws.....all due to saying that Cuba and Iran coordinate their policies to counteract or circumvent US Policy. So that would be like working together around US sanctions, huh? Not like that would be true, eh?




In addition to its proven technical prowess to interfere and intercept U.S. telecommunications, Cuba has deployed around the world a highly effective human intelligence network. The type of espionage carried out by Ana Belén Montes,
So having spies makes one a terrorist? No it doesnt. We have spies, we (the US gov) essentially intercept the whole worlds communications. Does that make the US gov terrorists? Based off this logic, we better put ourselves on our own lists of state sponsors of terrorism...

one should expect that Tehran, in case of a U.S.-Iran conflict would launch an asymmetrical offensive against the U.S. and its European allies through surrogate terrorist states and paramilitary organizations. In such a scenario, Cuban intelligence would be invaluable to Iran and its proxies and Cuban territory could be used by terrorist groups to launch operations against the U.S.
Wow.. Quite the doomsday hypothetical the CSP have thought up there. "If Iran launches a conflict against the US they might use Cuban intelligence". So now we are basing our list of dreamy hypotheticals?

Yet the commitments to and interrelationships with anti-American terrorist groups have not disappeared. They have taken a more sophisticated approach; many times using proxies such as Venezuelan supporters.
Hmmm no surprise here, a claim with no specifics...

In the event of conflict with Iran and/or North Korea, two allies of Cuba, the Castro regime may be called upon to support its allies......snip~

Center for Security Policy | Cuba?s Support for Terrorism and the Venezuela-Iran Nexus
So they are basing this essentially of a hypothetical. Not only is the author of the TownHall piece grasping at straws, but the study she sites is as well. The whole argument seems to be based around Iran, Venezuela, and Cuba have good diplomatic relations, Cuba has spies, and therefore if Iran and the US go to war Cuba might offer them intelligence. :doh Its non terroristic activity then put in the context of a hypothetical... This kinda backs up the reasoning to remove them from the list, a lot of the justification for them to remain on the list was purely petty political reasons.
 
Read more @: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

Many were expected this to happen soon enough. About damn time this happens. The only thing Cuba exports now is doctors. Another step in the right direction to repairing this relationship between our two countries. [/FONT][/COLOR]

About time.

The US has had so much paranoia over a little island it's crazy.

Now they can end their illegal occupation and stop acting like the Soviet Union.
 
Quoted for truth! I don't smoke - I hate smoking - but doggone it, once I see Cuban cigars for sale here stateside, I'm gonna smoke me one and listen to the greatest anti-war song ever written! Funny how that song still applies so strongly today, so long after the Cold War (which cost Cuba so much) was done and over with....

How many do you want?

There's a store three blocks from me has top grade Cuban. Send me the money and I will send some to you.

Or maybe the next time I vacation there
 
I really have no problem with Obama opening ties with Cuba and I think opening the door to American will do more to destabilize the tyrants than empower them. That said, I would like to have seen us get something in return for this type of move.

I just want to point out that if our goal is to destabilize the tyrant opening the door creates it's own award.

The poll numbers I've seen regarding younger Cubans viewpoints on the economy, personal freedoms, and their government is pretty eye opening. It seems that opening up to Cuba is coinciding with the younger generation that isn't as enmeshed in the old generations communist views.
 
It's true, that since the detente between US and Cuba, I've seen it reported that arrests for political agitation have seen a marked increase. So much for any compromises on the Cuban state's part.

What Amnesty International is saying? Not heard anything lately, but over the last few months, I believe, they've made some controversial accusations of some nations which you'd think were far less of a problem, being Democratic and all, and far fewer over what you'd think were far more egregious human rights violations, such as the taking of people's lives.


Here was something from Amnesty's Blog. ;)



In today’s Cuba, it remains virtually impossible for anyone to peacefully express ideas opposing the Cuban government. All media are under the strict control of the state, as are unions. Despite the subsequent release of dozens of political prisoners early this year, short-term arrests and harassment of political dissidents and human rights activists remain a troubling reality on the island.

The harassment of dissidents sometimes takes the form of acts of repudiation (actos de repudio). These acts are government-coordinated demonstrations, usually carried out in front of the homes of political opponents. During an act of repudiation, political opponents and human rights activists are subjected to verbal and physical abuse by groups of people chanting pro-government slogans.

Working within this system, Cuba’s government could send the world a message it now welcomes accountability, transparency, and independent monitoring. But so far the message it has been sending is a very different one. Last month when the Inter-American Commission held a hearing on Cuba’s human rights record, the seats reserved for the Cuban government delegation remained empty, just like in previous hearings.....snip~

https://www.amnesty.org/en/articles/blogs/2015/04/cuba-summit-of-the-americas/
 
I really have no problem with Obama opening ties with Cuba and I think opening the door to American will do more to destabilize the tyrants than empower them. That said, I would like to have seen us get something in return for this type of move.

i doubt that they could have given us much. we could have pressured them to hold elections or something, but that would have been useless. democracy has to happen from the inside.
 
And Obama continues his mission of ass-kissing dictators all over the globe!

No precedent for that, huh?

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Rumsfeld-Saddam.jpg
 
Well, they should make some confessions about the type of business they are doing with Iran.




Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now.....


What about activity from seven months ago, does that count? As I noted yesterday, Cuba is in fact still a state sponsor of terror and its allies are enemies of the United States. One of those enemies is Iran, the world's biggest sponsor of terrorism against the U.S. and Israel around the world through Hezbollah and Hamas. More from the Center for Security Policy:

Iran, Cuba and Venezuela have developed a close and cooperative relationship against the U.S. and in support of terrorist groups and states. The three regimes increasingly coordinate their policies and resources in a three way partnership aimed at counteracting and circumventing U.S. policies in the Middle East and Latin America. Within this relationship, Cuba plays a strategic role in terms of geography (proximity to the U.S.), intelligence gathering (both electronic eavesdropping and human espionage) and logistics. .....snip~

Obama: Cuba Hasn't Been Involved in Sponsoring Terrorism For Six Months So They're Off The List Now - Katie Pavlich



Sorry man, you're using a blog to try to convince me of something that is highly doubtful.

The United States has tried to use Cuba as a boogie man to keep you all afraid. Yes, they have done some nasty things to the US, but the US is in violation of about a hundred international laws, the occupation in Gitmo is illegal under any circumstance and the people as well as the government want that prison of torture off their island.


I do not believe for one second that Cuba is spreading terrorism. Canada would have something to say if so, and we hold very close relations with Cuba and continue tom trade with them.

This is the only decent thing Obama has done, now they need to close that torture facility and shut the **** up about civil rights abuses, as long as the US hold people with no legal grounds, they have no moral authority. They are an imperial power trying to punish a little island for kicking out the mafia
 
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