Russia lifts ban on missile deliveries to Iran, start oil-for-goods swap

eohrnberger · Apr 14, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
I want to hear Obama or someone in his adoring camp say they saw this coming.

Here I suggest we see the core of the failure of American foreign policy in Obamaland. Since elected we have seen a compartmentalized president, a super secretary of each portfolio as opposed to the executive position of weighing all decisions in relation to others and the consequences. He thinks politically resulting in silo decision-making.

He failed to see how Putin, who influenced the talks, would take advantage of a self involved incompetent.

The result being that when middle east leaders of all description look at a foreign power with influence, they are more likely to look to Moscow than Washington. Mr. Putin now has the cred of having helped Iran get its nuke program running again, but being the guy who gave the finger to the US after screwing Obama.

Such a price the nation has to pay for such a weak and incompetent leader. All the warnings during the '08 election cycle all fell on deaf ears, ears closed by Biased Lame Stream Media which didn't do their job in vetting this president; ears closed by their liberal guilt and wanting the first black president competence be dammed; ears closed by all those who responded to legitimate policy questions and disagreements with 'racist' and 'bigot' and squashed any reasoned and reasonable policy discussion; ears closed by the stupid excessively politically correct; and ears closed by dream of 'Hope and Change' sloganeering by Obama's campaign machinery.

Be it not said that all this was foreseen, and forewarned.

Yes, the nation will have to pay this price, and the next president will have to clean up this excessively large mess Obama's made, and to top it all off, we are in even less of economically strong base not to do so, because of Obama's economic and regulatory policies, the recovery we have, if you can call it that, it is in spite of Obama's economic and regulatory policies.

Yes, yes, all this was foreseen, and forewarned, and still ignored; sacrificed on the alter of liberal / progressive / Democratic fairy tales of rainbows and unicorns, and excessive political correctness; images of the world they'd like to have and not images of the world as it really is.

polgara · Apr 14, 2015

eohrnberger said:
Such a price the nation has to pay for such a weak and incompetent leader. All the warnings during the '08 election cycle all fell on deaf ears, ears closed by Biased Lame Stream Media which didn't do their job in vetting this president; ears closed by their liberal guilt and wanting the first black president competence be dammed; ears closed by all those who responded to legitimate policy questions and disagreements with 'racist' and 'bigot' and squashed any reasoned and reasonable policy discussion; ears closed by the stupid excessively politically correct; and ears closed by dream of 'Hope and Change' sloganeering by Obama's campaign machinery.

Be it not said that all this was foreseen, and forewarned.

Yes, the nation will have to pay this price, and the next president will have to clean up this excessively large mess Obama's made, and to top it all off, we are in even less of economically strong base not to do so, because of Obama's economic and regulatory policies, the recovery we have, if you can call it that, it is in spite of Obama's economic and regulatory policies.

Yes, yes, all this was foreseen, and forewarned, and still ignored; sacrificed on the alter of liberal / progressive / Democratic fairy tales of rainbows and unicorns, and excessive political correctness; images of the world they'd like to have and not images of the world as it really is.

:thumbs: :thumbs:

solletica · Apr 14, 2015

MMC said:
Well, at least Putin says once the agreement is reached. They can pick up the S300. Until then....it wont be a problem. But you correct.....they will make it more difficult to go after their Nuke facilities.

Iran already has S300s. If it didn't, Israel would've attacked Iran by now.

solletica · Apr 14, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
I want to hear Obama or someone in his adoring camp say they saw this coming.

Here I suggest we see the core of the failure of American foreign policy in Obamaland.

Be specific. What was this failure?

Fearandloathing said:
Since elected we have seen a compartmentalized president, a super secretary of each portfolio as opposed to the executive position of weighing all decisions in relation to others and the consequences. He thinks politically resulting in silo decision-making.

He failed to see how Putin, who influenced the talks, would take advantage of a self involved incompetent.

So Putin wouldn't have given Iran S300s if there were no deal? ?

Fearandloathing · Apr 14, 2015

eohrnberger said:
Such a price the nation has to pay for such a weak and incompetent leader. All the warnings during the '08 election cycle all fell on deaf ears, ears closed by Biased Lame Stream Media which didn't do their job in vetting this president; ears closed by their liberal guilt and wanting the first black president competence be dammed; ears closed by all those who responded to legitimate policy questions and disagreements with 'racist' and 'bigot' and squashed any reasoned and reasonable policy discussion; ears closed by the stupid excessively politically correct; and ears closed by dream of 'Hope and Change' sloganeering by Obama's campaign machinery.

Be it not said that all this was foreseen, and forewarned.

Yes, the nation will have to pay this price, and the next president will have to clean up this excessively large mess Obama's made, and to top it all off, we are in even less of economically strong base not to do so, because of Obama's economic and regulatory policies, the recovery we have, if you can call it that, it is in spite of Obama's economic and regulatory policies.

Yes, yes, all this was foreseen, and forewarned, and still ignored; sacrificed on the alter of liberal / progressive / Democratic fairy tales of rainbows and unicorns, and excessive political correctness; images of the world they'd like to have and not images of the world as it really is.

Excellent observations.

They bought image over substance and believed a dream concocted by a snake oil salesman. "The One" had come, thank you fat lady.

No one asked "how much will this cost" because it was "free". Yes, forewarned indeed. I recall an op ed in the New York Times by a Canadian economist teaching at Harvard saying much of what has been said, and no one took notice even when published by the most liberal paper in the country. I recall more than a few world class health economists state outright the kind of reality you now face with premiums and yet-to-be-revealed "mandates" or what we call a hidden tax.

Yep, forewarned. And you know what? The whole show has a chance of repeating itself. I mean Hillary is no more and likely less competent than Obama, if she wins somehow will have congress against her, so she will have no alternative for a second term than spending more to buy votes. At $1.8 a minute I may very well live to see the country bankrupted.

donsutherland1 · Apr 14, 2015

radioman said:
Russia needs oil?

Russia seeks geopolitical influence. Its quest to be a "first mover" is aimed at expanding its sphere of influence in the Middle East. A deepening Iran-Russia relationship would have balance-of-power implications that would, at a minimum, raise the costs of efforts by the U.S. to ensure that Iran does not gain regional hegemony.

B'smith · Apr 14, 2015

solletica said:
Iran already has S300s. If it didn't, Israel would've attacked Iran by now.

I think you're right in that Iran some of the hardware for the S300s but don't think that they are fully operational to the same extent that the ones in Russia are. Also, I don't think that Iranian personnel have been fully trained and the systems are running at a fully operational level.

Also, I can think of many reasons Israel hasn't attacked Iran:

1. They're not convinced that they can get the US to do all the "Heavy Lifting" this time & neuter Iran to Israel's satisfaction as with Iraq. However, they've been launching "False Flag" attacks on the US & its bases to deceive the US into fighting Wars for them since The Lavon Affaire".

2. Roughly 2/3 of Americans oppose War with Iran. Meanwhile, US support for Israel was falling prior to Netanyahu's speech before Congress, now it's lower but still significant.

3. The Israelis are quietly operating under another plan to contain Iran & share Regional Hegemony with US Ziono-Cons (see Oded Yinon Plan)

4. Israeli Military & Intelligence oppose attacking Iran:

“Former Mossad chief: Israel air strike on Iran 'stupidest thing I have ever heard'
Former Mossad chief: Israel air strike on Iran 'stupidest thing I have ever heard' - Israel News | Haaretz

5. "Fear of the Unknown"; IDF is still trying to figure out the surprises they encountered from being routed after their murderous foray into S. Lebanon in '06

An attack on Iran would be cataclysmic at best. Pray for cool heads

Thanks

eohrnberger · Apr 14, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
Excellent observations.

They bought image over substance and believed a dream concocted by a snake oil salesman. "The One" had come, thank you fat lady.

No one asked "how much will this cost" because it was "free". Yes, forewarned indeed. I recall an op ed in the New York Times by a Canadian economist teaching at Harvard saying much of what has been said, and no one took notice even when published by the most liberal paper in the country. I recall more than a few world class health economists state outright the kind of reality you now face with premiums and yet-to-be-revealed "mandates" or what we call a hidden tax.

Yep, forewarned. And you know what? The whole show has a chance of repeating itself. I mean Hillary is no more and likely less competent than Obama, if she wins somehow will have congress against her, so she will have no alternative for a second term than spending more to buy votes. At $1.8 a minute I may very well live to see the country bankrupted.

Yeah, but the Fed. Gov. has so much land and office buildings it needs to sell, I think they could probably make it out of bankruptcy, and being in bankcruptcy, the cost of borrowing will increase to the point where the fed gov just can't afford it, so that would be a step in the right direction, I mean getting the borrowing under control, because frankly, that's what it would appear to take to accomplish that, not because I'd like to see it. I'd much rather have them curb their borrowing on their own accord, but it just doesn't seem to be happening.

eohrnberger · Apr 14, 2015

donsutherland1 said:
Russia seeks geopolitical influence. Its quest to be a "first mover" is aimed at expanding its sphere of influence in the Middle East. A deepening Iran-Russia relationship would have balance-of-power implications that would, at a minimum, raise the costs of efforts by the U.S. to ensure that Iran does not gain regional hegemony.

I'd expect a greater Saudi / US and Saudi / West cooperation / collaboration as a counter to this. Seems we are back to the old Cold War games again. But then, I'm sure that's where Putin feels most comfortable, driven there by his instincts. SO much for the 'Rest Button'. What a ****ing disaster!

Fearandloathing · Apr 14, 2015

eohrnberger said:
Yeah, but the Fed. Gov. has so much land and office buildings it needs to sell, I think they could probably make it out of bankruptcy, and being in bankcruptcy, the cost of borrowing will increase to the point where the fed gov just can't afford it, so that would be a step in the right direction, I mean getting the borrowing under control, because frankly, that's what it would appear to take to accomplish that, not because I'd like to see it. I'd much rather have them curb their borrowing on their own accord, but it just doesn't seem to be happening.

You can't curb borrowing without cutting spending.

that's where the pain will come.

I doubt the US government has $24 trillion in assets that can be liquidated. I doubt they will sell Puerto Rico

solletica · Apr 14, 2015

B'smith said:
I think you're right in that Iran some of the hardware for the S300s but don't think that they are fully operational to the same extent that the ones in Russia are. Also, I don't think that Iranian personnel have been fully trained and the systems are running at a fully operational level.

Also, I can think of many reasons Israel hasn't attacked Iran:

1. They're not convinced that they can get the US to do all the "Heavy Lifting" this time & neuter Iran to Israel's satisfaction as with Iraq. However, they've been launching "False Flag" attacks on the US & its bases to deceive the US into fighting Wars for them since The Lavon Affaire".

2. Roughly 2/3 of Americans oppose War with Iran. Meanwhile, US support for Israel was falling prior to Netanyahu's speech before Congress, now it's lower but still significant.

3. The Israelis are quietly operating under another plan to contain Iran & share Regional Hegemony with US Ziono-Cons (see Oded Yinon Plan)

4. Israeli Military & Intelligence oppose attacking Iran:

“Former Mossad chief: Israel air strike on Iran 'stupidest thing I have ever heard'
Former Mossad chief: Israel air strike on Iran 'stupidest thing I have ever heard' - Israel News | Haaretz

5. "Fear of the Unknown"; IDF is still trying to figure out the surprises they encountered from being routed after their murderous foray into S. Lebanon in '06

An attack on Iran would be cataclysmic at best. Pray for cool heads

Thanks

The only one who gets to decide if Israel attacks Iran is Netanyahu, and Netanyahu doesn't have to listen to the Mossad or anyone else.

Netanyahu is a proven warmonger who is known to always prefer bombs and military force to ensure Israel's military hegemony in the ME.

Therefore, the only reason he won't attack is because Iran has an effective military deterrent to the kinds of attacks Israel can mount.

jmotivator · Apr 14, 2015

radioman said:
Russia needs oil?

It will just re-route the oil through pipelines to Europe. It's a control strategy to keep EU dependent on Russian oil and gas.

Roadvirus · Apr 14, 2015

humbolt said:
This just confirms for me that one way or the other Iran will have a nuke. Russian will have it's land bridge to Crimea The eastern Med will fall completely under Russian influence, and Iran will control the Levant, the Persian Gulf, and the approaches to the Red Sea. Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt will be left to their own devices and remedies. In two short years that region will look entirely different, and will pose nearly insurmountable problems for Western Europe as well.

All as a result of Obama's foreign policy failures.

eohrnberger · Apr 14, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
You can't curb borrowing without cutting spending.

that's where the pain will come.

Indeed. About high time that everyone puts their big boy panties on, and deals with it. That includes the electorate as well as the congress.

Fearandloathing said:
I doubt the US government has $24 trillion in assets that can be liquidated. I doubt they will sell Puerto Rico

I don't think that the US Government 'owns' Puerto Rico, so I don't think they can 'sell it', but that wouldn't be the same for large tracks of federally owned land out West, some of which holds reserves of exploitable resources, NG, oil, minerals, ores, and you gotta figure that some of these would have some value that could be sold.

I wonder how much some realize that the continued spending, and the social safety nets are the largest line items in spending growing, at risk of being forced to sell off all the national parks and similar. Hell of a future predicament we are leaving our future generations. Be not proud.

polgara · Apr 14, 2015

Simpleχity;1064522854 said:
Russia lifts ban on missile deliveries to Iran, start oil-for-goods swap

Russia says an arms embargo of Iran will cease when when a deal is reached with the P5+1. In the event Iran cheats on a deal, the S-300 system would make air and cruise missile strikes much more difficult.

Greetings, Simplexity. :2wave:

Don't you just love to see big smiles and hearty laughter at the conclusion of a successful business deal? Does the old heart good, doesn't it! :mrgreen:

roughdraft274 · Apr 14, 2015

Reading the comments here are so damn funny.

They think that Putin is poking Obama in the eye because he's just so damn weak.

When in reality, Putin has already agreed to our terms that he wouldn't sell missiles to Iran, and as far as we know he hasn't at all. And now, rather than saying "**** obama, we're trading this", instead he says "once Iran has negotiated a deal to allow inspectors in to the country and to cooperate with everyone, we will sell them defensive systems."

This is essentially "once Obama and them says it's ok we can start trading."

If the deal means that Iran allows constant inspections and drastic reduction of centrifuges etc. as I've heard about this deal, I think if they agree to all of that then I don't see the harm in allowing them some air defense. It's not like Russia is selling them fighter jets. The system would hamper us a bit should we need to go in and bomb Iran but in the grand scheme of things it would be little more than a speed bump.

humbolt · Apr 14, 2015

Roadvirus said:
All as a result of Obama's foreign policy failures.

...And whether she likes it or not, Hillary is linked to those failures as surely as the tides here rise and fall with the moon.

Fearandloathing · Apr 14, 2015

eohrnberger said:
Indeed. About high time that everyone puts their big boy panties on, and deals with it. That includes the electorate as well as the congress.

I don't think that the US Government 'owns' Puerto Rico, so I don't think they can 'sell it', but that wouldn't be the same for large tracks of federally owned land out West, some of which holds reserves of exploitable resources, NG, oil, minerals, ores, and you gotta figure that some of these would have some value that could be sold.

I wonder how much some realize that the continued spending, and the social safety nets are the largest line items in spending growing, at risk of being forced to sell off all the national parks and similar. Hell of a future predicament we are leaving our future generations. Be not proud.

Those large tracts of land are unlikely to yield even the interest on 24 trillion which will be the debt load when Obama leaves IF they don't spend more.

The continued spending is the issue and the only way that the cancer can be stopped. Proven time and again in a Europe that refuses to learn to, like Greece, Italy and Spain now living on the largess of their neighbors.

Once again what you have is not a 'social safety net" at all, as more than half recipients do not need it based on any "poverty" scale I have ever seen. This is lifetime welfare for the employed who also want 50" screens and a "right" to the same clothes as anyone else. We are considered by Americans to be "socialist" but no one gets food stamps, no one working anyway. If your income is low your medical plan is free, if not and your income is high you will pay around $120 a month. If your income is low your meds are paid for, if high not.

I learned this lesson in business: anyone can find 5% in savings anytime. A simple deep audit and an across the board cut of 10% would eliminate the waste, another 30% will scrub it. All departments, all staff.

You'll hear a lot of whining but amazingly you won't see much affect.

From what I see you have people driving new SUV's collecting food stamps.

B'smith · Apr 14, 2015

solletica said:
The only one who gets to decide if Israel attacks Iran is Netanyahu, and Netanyahu doesn't have to listen to the Mossad or anyone else.

Netanyahu is a proven warmonger who is known to always prefer bombs and military force to ensure Israel's military hegemony in the ME.

Therefore, the only reason he won't attack is because Iran has an effective military deterrent to the kinds of attacks Israel can mount.

That's one of the most honest & accurate assessments of Netanyahu I've read. I hope & assume, however, that there is someone or some group of people in the Israeli government that acts as a check to such a monumental decision but given the unfettered murderous history of atrocities under Netanyahu's extremist Regime......who knows.

IDF's thrashing via Hezbollah's superior fighters & Assymetric warfare is certainly the reason Israel hasn't made another recent grab for the Litani River basin etc.

I really don't know to what extent the S-300s & other Iranian, defensive systems are effectively operational but doubt that they are adequate for an unlikely Full Scale US & Israeli assault. I hope you are right though. The S-300s may well be adequate for a manned aircraft assault.

Israel's assault on Iran & the rest of the Islamic Region now, is built into their more comprehensive & quiet, Regional, Oded Yinon Plan:

“The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS”
The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS | The Daily Star

EXCERPT "This is the Yinon Plan at work, which aims at the balkanisation of the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) Region into smaller and weaker entities or states in order to ensure the dominant position of Israel in the region and the control of its oil, gas and water resources by the US-Israel nexus."CONTINUED

Israel's Right Wing & their US Ziono-Cons are obsessed with & frantic to trash any successful Nuclear Negotiations with Iran, so.....again, who knows.

Many thanks

mbig · Apr 14, 2015

B'smith said:
....

Israel's assault on Iran & the rest of the Islamic Region now, is built into their more comprehensive & quiet, Regional, Oded Yinon Plan:

“The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS”
The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS | The Daily Star

EXCERPT "This is the Yinon Plan at work, which aims at the balkanisation of the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) Region into smaller and weaker entities or states in order to ensure the dominant position of Israel in the region and the control of its oil, gas and water resources by the US-Israel nexus."CONTINUED

Israel's Right Wing & their US Ziono-Cons are obsessed with & frantic to trash any successful Nuclear Negotiations with Iran, so.....again, who knows...

More Garbage 'anti-Israel' Conspiracism by B'smith.
Posted in Lebanon's 'Daily Star', whose muslim author uses (SAW) after referring to prophet Mohammed.

Of course, aside from a theoretical 1982 essay by Yinon, there's NOTHING linking the current M-E turmoil to Israel and some great plan to "Balkanize the Arabs", who were already and Improperly "Balkanized" after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, and well BEFORE Yinon/1982 or Israel.
"ISIS" no less!

In FACT, the USA, due to it's deference to Turkey (and other screwy ideas) has Persistently PREVENTED Iraq's break-up into more rational states!
As Always, the OPPOSITE of what you allege.

Sure, phony 'palestinians' (and WTF is a 'Jordanian') deserve a state, but not a true Ethnicity/Lingual group/race Kurds?

eohrnberger · Apr 14, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
Those large tracts of land are unlikely to yield even the interest on 24 trillion which will be the debt load when Obama leaves IF they don't spend more.

Yeah I suppose you're right on that.

Fearandloathing said:
The continued spending is the issue and the only way that the cancer can be stopped. Proven time and again in a Europe that refuses to learn to, like Greece, Italy and Spain now living on the largess of their neighbors.

Yep.

Fearandloathing said:
Once again what you have is not a 'social safety net" at all, as more than half recipients do not need it based on any "poverty" scale I have ever seen. This is lifetime welfare for the employed who also want 50" screens and a "right" to the same clothes as anyone else. We are considered by Americans to be "socialist" but no one gets food stamps, no one working anyway. If your income is low your medical plan is free, if not and your income is high you will pay around $120 a month. If your income is low your meds are paid for, if high not.

I learned this lesson in business: anyone can find 5% in savings anytime. A simple deep audit and an across the board cut of 10% would eliminate the waste, another 30% will scrub it. All departments, all staff.

You'll hear a lot of whining but amazingly you won't see much affect.

From what I see you have people driving new SUV's collecting food stamps.

That's for sure, and that's by far the largest part of the annual government budget, from what I understand.

UNCLE SAM is being bilked, big-time. Losses from health-care scams alone are between $70 billion and $240 billion a year, reckons the FBI. An ever higher percentage of frauds (false claims for welfare payments, tax refunds and so on) are being perpetrated with stolen identities. Some 12.6m people—one every three seconds—fell victim to identity theft in the United States in 2012, according to Javelin Strategy and Research. The problem only grows as benefit programmes strive for efficiency and convenience, shifting applications online and making payments to prepaid debit cards, which can be bought in shops, require no bank account and allow money to be laundered quickly and easily. The self-proclaimed first lady of tax-refund fraud is Rashia Wilson (posing with the loot on her Facebook page, above) who, along with her eager associates, claimed bogus rebates of more than $11m.

Stealing from the government: SIRF

6 charts that show the Welfare State run amok - AEI | Pethokoukis Blog » AEIdeas

And what did ObamaCare do? Expand Medicare coverage? Yeah, like that's the responsible direction for all this.

Fearandloathing · Apr 14, 2015

eohrnberger said:
Yeah I suppose you're right on that.

Yep.

That's for sure, and that's by far the largest part of the annual government budget, from what I understand.

Stealing from the government: SIRF

6 charts that show the Welfare State run amok - AEI | Pethokoukis Blog » AEIdeas

And what did ObamaCare do? Expand Medicare coverage? Yeah, like that's the responsible direction for all this.

To me the most astonishing and frightening is the second to the last chart.

44.4 % of the work force on taxpayer's money.

I doubt it's ever been here in "socialist Canada". This is the result of one very corrupt system of vote buying and padded bills. I am at a loss for words, 4 in ten families totally dependent on the public cash flow. No wonder you have to tax health care

eohrnberger · Apr 14, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
To me the most astonishing and frightening is the second to the last chart.

44.4 % of the work force on taxpayer's money.

I doubt it's ever been here in "socialist Canada". This is the result of one very corrupt system of vote buying and padded bills. I am at a loss for words, 4 in ten families totally dependent on the public cash flow. No wonder you have to tax health care

Yup, and there's sill some who keep saying that it's not a problem, and that the fed can print up yet more money, and the Fed gov can just continue to borrow more money. Bzzzz. That's the wrong answer.

Fearandloathing · Apr 14, 2015

eohrnberger said:
Yup, and there's sill some who keep saying that it's not a problem, and that the fed can print up yet more money, and the Fed gov can just continue to borrow more money. Bzzzz. That's the wrong answer.

I am all in favor of the fed printing as much money as the presses will handle, hell they can borrow Canada's. every dollar they print makes my dollar worth a little bit more especially when buying American assets, and every dollar they print makes the cost of our goods, like oil, hydro electricity, cars etc. goes up.

yeah, please can you get on that? This is hopefully going to be a long retirement and I want to go out in style

eohrnberger · Apr 15, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
I am all in favor of the fed printing as much money as the presses will handle, hell they can borrow Canada's. every dollar they print makes my dollar worth a little bit more especially when buying American assets, and every dollar they print makes the cost of our goods, like oil, hydro electricity, cars etc. goes up.

yeah, please can you get on that? This is hopefully going to be a long retirement and I want to go out in style

Meh. Me not so much.

Russia lifts ban on missile deliveries to Iran, start oil-for-goods swap

eohrnberger

polgara

solletica

solletica

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

donsutherland1

B'smith

eohrnberger

eohrnberger

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

solletica

jmotivator

Computer Gaming Nerd

Roadvirus

Heading North

eohrnberger

polgara

roughdraft274

ThunderCougarFalconBird

humbolt

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

B'smith

mbig

onomatopoeic

eohrnberger

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

eohrnberger

Fearandloathing

How long is now?

eohrnberger