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The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

I'm trying to be specific and directly answer either your questions or the points you bring up. If you have one or two items you'd rather me expound upon, highlight them and I will.



:shrug: had that been the case then Christianity would have almost immediately failed, as did plenty of other cults in the region at that time. However, the authors made their texts and their claims extremely falsifiable, and instead of their being falsified (which would have been insanely easy, if the claims weren't true - just pull the body out of the grave, for one) the Church exploded. The evidence suggests that you are incorrect.



Quite the contrary - the pre-Resurrection community had no belief that Jesus would die and then come back from the dead.



:shrug: depends on what you are discussing. If you are talking Genesis, then you are talking about a date range that begins in (around) 4004 BC, if you accept a literal dateline (which many do not - it's a very Enlightenment idea to impose on an ancient text)



Exodus and the Mosaic Law were what "made" the Jewish People and the Judaic Faith and occurred around 1100-1000 "ish" BC. So about 200 "ish" years before they started getting written down. Not thousands.



Actually A) plenty of my prayers have gone unanswered (or, I suppose, the answer was "no - deal with it") and B) yes, I have indeed had direct conversations with God.



Sure. But magic is the opposite of what is described in the New Testament.



Actually it doesn't - this is a common misconception among non-believers. Christians don't believe in God because the Bible told them so, they believe in the Bible because God told them so.



If He is real then he, by definition, could not be lazy but we, indeed, are fallen and prone to rebellion in our pride.

I guess there really isn't any point in us continuing. You think you've had a physical conversation with god, which pretty much means no amount of reasoned arguments or logic could ever dissuade you from it. Best regards.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Not really. The Pauline Epistles were written roughly 15-30 years after Christ's death, and all four Gospels were completed within the first Century.

:lol:

"because the process took decades to hundreds of years."
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

:lol:

"because the process took decades to hundreds of years."

Wait, sorry, are we talking OT or NT? I got mixed up, methinks :lol:
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

:shrug: if they did, then I would like to see the argument about why they would come up with an agenda to paint themselves for all time as a bunch of self-centered, cowardly idiots and then get repeatedly beaten before being killed.

Being martyrs is the fastest way to immortality and revered worship...
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

I guess there really isn't any point in us continuing. You think you've had a physical conversation with god, which pretty much means no amount of reasoned arguments or logic could ever dissuade you from it. Best regards.

:shrug: you are assuming your conclusions, and I agree no amount of reasoned arguments or logic will persuade you. Good night :).
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Wait, sorry, are we talking OT or NT? I got mixed up, methinks :lol:

All, but I was focusing on the New.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

There's tons of scholarly works around that answer that to the affirmative. In fact, I don't know of any serious historian who denies a 1st century Jesus.

Prove it. Just because you say so doesn't make it so.


Bethlehem was known by the Biblical prophet Micah as one of the smallest communities in all of Judea, so just how many babies 2 years old or younger do you really think there were? Three? Five? Maybe ten?

For the record, Professor William F. Albright, the dean of American archaeology in the Holy Land, estimates that the population of Bethlehem at the time of Jesus' birth to be about 300 people (Albright and Mann 1971:19). The number of male children, two years old or younger, would be about six or seven (Maier 1998:178, footnote 25). This would hardly be a newsworthy event in light of what else was going on at the time (Biblearchaeology.org).

Considering all the butchery Herod was involved in, even murdering people in his own family, I don't see the Bethlehem killing as a major news story, especially since CNN and FOX and the other networks didn't even exist back then

Finally, they don't call an argument from silence (which is what you're making), a logical fallacy, for nothing.

So you take words out of the bible to prove things in the bible? Seriously? That's like proving that hogwarts exist because The book Harry Potter says so.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Being martyrs is the fastest way to immortality and revered worship...

.....that's your response. They had secret future-predicting powers and knew that if they were beaten and killed, magically instead of dying out like a dozen other movements, theirs would somehow remember and revere their name?

yeah. that's even less plausible.


The authors of the NT believed what they were writing. They depicted themselves (painfully) honestly, they made it easily falsifiable, and they suffered for it.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

So you take words out of the bible to prove things in the bible? Seriously?

:raises eyebrow: well... yes. generally when we are looking for evidence of whether or not events occurred, we look for texts about them.


For example, we believe that Martin Luther started the Reformation. Why? Because people wrote about it. If someone were to say "well, you can't take the texts from that time period that claim that Luther started the Reformation to argue that Luther started the reformation" we would all look at him and then ask if he had recently gone off any major medications - it would be a ludicrous argument.
 
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Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

All, but I was focusing on the New.

Oh. Well then no, you are incorrect.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

In would have definitely remembered that and this 2000 year old " Magician " with a small contingent of followers seems to have pulled off the most successful PR campaign in the HIstory of the world.

He now has 2 Billion followers.


So your numbers constitute legitamacy? How do you feel about Islam? I believe there are far more muslims in the world than Christians.

My bad. I was wrong. But 1.6 billion muslims is nothing to sneeze at.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

You have some evidence they were lying then please let us see it.

We're not talking about 21st century political liars, but men who put their lives on the line to give others the truth.

You were indoctrinated well.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Nope. Magic is supposed to be Mankind attaining some kind of special control over unnatural forces in order to bend the world to their will. The miraculous events of Christianity are the exact opposite - God is in control and it's for His purposes.

You are simply engaging in a semantics argument. Magic is something that is supernatural. God is supernatural. Moreover, if you were to strict with the definitions of terms, what you described would not have been magic, it would have been sorcery.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Star of Bethlehem an actual Cosmological event that was recorded at the time of Jesus's birth by the Chinese ?



And his time of birth is conjecture which makes your statement silly.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

So your numbers constitute legitamacy? How do you feel about Islam? I believe there are far more muslims in the world than Christians.

My bad. I was wrong. But 1.6 billion muslims is nothing to sneeze at.


Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, not just a " magician" or just a man.

So we're up to 3.6 Billion people currently who believe Jesus was more than just a Man.

Wow, that REALLY is the most successful PR campaign in History.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

why not arise in three hours or three years then? anyway, it sounds too much like a script with all the threes...

Because they were tribal stories and like all tribal stories that are recorded decades after the fact, there typically is a numerology associated with them (other common numbers would 12 or 40).
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

So your numbers constitute legitamacy? How do you feel about Islam? I believe there are far more muslims in the world than Christians.

My bad. I was wrong. But 1.6 billion muslims is nothing to sneeze at.

There are actually many more Christians than Muslims in the world. Some 500 million more.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

And his time of birth is conjecture which makes your statement silly.

No, no it hasn't actually. Its why I asked Logicman to expand on it, and not you.

He seems to be far more knowledgeable on this issue.

I would have asked you about it, but I wasn't looking for opinions.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

You are simply engaging in a semantics argument. Magic is something that is supernatural. God is supernatural. Moreover, if you were to strict with the definitions of terms, what you described would not have been magic, it would have been sorcery.

No, I am attempting to be precise. If you want to switch to "supernatural", that's fine, but Magic =/= Supernatural.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

I guess there really isn't any point in us continuing. You think you've had a physical conversation with god, which pretty much means no amount of reasoned arguments or logic could ever dissuade you from it. Best regards.

Oh come on there are plenty of people that talk to God. They're called psychophrenics! George Bush said God told him to invade iraq!
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Star of Bethlehem an actual Cosmological event that was recorded at the time of Jesus's birth by the Chinese ?

I

Quote from "Killing Jesus," by Bill O'Reilly, page 15 note:

"In 1991, The Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society (volume 32, pages 389-407) noted that Chinese astronomers had observed a long-tailed, slow-moving comet in their skies during March of 5 B.C. This sui-hsing, or "star," hung in the Capricorn region for more than seventy days. This same comet would have been visible in the skies over Persia, home of the Magi, in the hours just before dawn. Due to the earth's orbital motion, the comet's light would have been directly in front of the Magi during their journey - hence, they would have followed the star."

Cool, huh!
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

No, no it hasn't actually. Its why I asked Logicman to expand on it, and not you.

He seems to be far more knowledgeable on this issue.

I would have asked you about it, but I wasn't looking for opinions.

Sorry I'm a scientist. I don't accept things at face value.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, not just a " magician" or just a man.

So we're up to 3.6 Billion people currently who believe Jesus was more than just a Man.

Wow, that REALLY is the most successful PR campaign in History.

It must have been half ass as the muslims and jews don't accept him as the son of God. Do you think God does things half ass?
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Prove it. Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

So you take words out of the bible to prove things in the bible? Seriously? That's like proving that hogwarts exist because The book Harry Potter says so.

You're full of nonsensical arguments, Enigma.

FYI the New Testament in the 1st century wasn't one book. Instead there were over two dozen individual manuscripts floating around different localities during the decades leading up to the end of the first century.

And that, Enigma, is independent verification - something you apparently don't want to admit to but should incorporate into your future arguments.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

You have some evidence they were lying then please let us see it.

We're not talking about 21st century political liars, but men who put their lives on the line to give others the truth.

That is how most new religions start. Being a martyr for your faith is certainly not unique to Christianity.
 
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