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Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

Khamenei has stated that military sites would be off-limits to international inspectors. From The New York Times:

Iran’s supreme leader on Thursday challenged two of the United States’ bedrock principles in the nuclear negotiations, declaring that all economic sanctions would have to be lifted on the day any final agreement is signed and that military sites would be strictly off limits to foreign inspectors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/world/middleeast/iran-khamenei-rouhani-nuclear-agreement.html

If Iran insists on such a position, it would cripple a very important component of verification, as Iran would have carved out a "safe harbor" from which it could engage in prohibited nuclear activities. IMO, if Iran is genuinely serious about the peaceful purpose of its nuclear activities, it should permit inspections that could be conducted anytime and anywhere.

Whether or not Khamenei is posturing remains to be seen. If he's serious about the above position on inspections, the P5+1 should reject any agreement, on account of a lack of verifiability.

The problem with this, is that access to military sites (AKA the PMDS, Possible Military Dimensions) of Iran were never part of the P5+1 talks.... They are being handled directly by the IAEA, and Iran has provided 3 of the 5 areas to their PMD's.. It also doesnt help that the US military has stated that Iran gave up its military nuclear program in 2003.
 
The problem with this, is that access to military sites (AKA the PMDS, Possible Military Dimensions) of Iran were never part of the P5+1 talks.... They are being handled directly by the IAEA, and Iran has provided 3 of the 5 areas to their PMD's.. It also doesnt help that the US military has stated that Iran gave up its military nuclear program in 2003.

Given Iran's past deception, international inspectors need access anywhere, anytime. Otherwise, the agreement won't be verifiable. I don't believe the P5+1 or UN Security Council should rely on Iran's good faith, alone.

Furthermore, such terms are required under UN Security Council Resolution 1696 which declares that the Security Council “...Demands... that Iran shall suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities, including research and development, to be verified by the IAEA." All such activities means every site wherever such activities might occur, military or otherwise. If Iran is truly committed to a peaceful nuclear energy program, it should have no difficulty allowing for such inspections. If, on the other hand, it seeks to retain strategic flexibility to pursue a weapons program, it will have grave difficulty with such terms. The weeks ahead, including whether Iran addresses the IAEA's two outstanding critical issues, will provide a lot of insight into Iran's intentions.
 
Given Iran's past deception, international inspectors need access anywhere, anytime. Otherwise, the agreement won't be verifiable. I don't believe the P5+1 or UN Security Council should rely on Iran's good faith, alone.
Anywhere anytime? This simply isnt possible. All nuclear facilities, absolutely possible. Anywhere? Literally not possible. No country simply allows international officials or other officials access to anywhere they want... However to say that if we dont have access to 2 areas of the PMD issues (which I think the 2 remaining negotiated issues of the PMD's are I think one is about explosive detonators and one about neutron transport studies.

Furthermore, such terms are required under UN Security Council Resolution 1696 which declares that the Security Council “...Demands... that Iran shall suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities, including research and development, to be verified by the IAEA."
I realize this... Why do you think we are here today and Iran had international sanctions placed on it?

All such activities means every site wherever such activities might occur, military or otherwise.
No where does it state that....

If Iran is truly committed to a peaceful nuclear energy program, it should have no difficulty allowing for such inspections. If, on the other hand, it seeks to retain strategic flexibility to pursue a weapons program, it will have grave difficulty with such terms. The weeks ahead, including whether Iran addresses the IAEA's two outstanding critical issues, will provide a lot of insight into Iran's intentions.
"PMDs and the Final Nuclear Agreement
Tying a comprehensive nuclear agreement to a resolution of the IAEA's investigation into the PMDs is unnecessary and risks derailing a deal.

Expecting Iran to "confess" that it pursued a nuclear weapons program is unrealistic and unnecessary. After having spent years denying that it pursued nuclear weapons and having delivered a fatwa against nuclear weapons, Tehran's senior leaders cannot afford to admit that it hid a nuclear weapons program.

In a letter to Secretary of State John Kerry, 354 members of Congress said that transparency on the PMD actions are necessary in order to establish a meaningful monitoring and verification system in a comprehensive deal.

Resolution of the agency's investigation is not necessary to put in place a comprehensive monitoring and verification regime that will prevent Iran from pursuing a covert program to build nuclear weapon or deviating from a comprehensive nuclear deal.

The IAEA's investigation into Iran's past nuclear activities related to weapons development is a separate process, and conditioning a nuclear deal on completion of the agency's investigation would delay and likely undermine the prospect for the conclusion of a comprehensive nuclear deal that limits Iran's nuclear potential and improves the international community's ability to detect and disrupt any potential future nuclear weapons-related effort.

Stringent and intrusive monitoring and verification mechanisms under the terms of the Additional Protocol would give the IAEA access to all of Iran's nuclear sites at short notice and access to additional sites if the agency suspects nuclear activities may be talking place. The IAEA and the international community will be able to quickly detect and deter any attempt to pursue nuclear weapons, whether through a covert program or by using declared facilities. Such measures are only possible with the negotiation of a comprehensive nuclear agreement by the P5+1 and Iran."
https://www.armscontrol.org/issue-b...-Military-Dimensions-to-Irans-Nuclear-Program
 
Anywhere anytime? This simply isnt possible. All nuclear facilities, absolutely possible.

This refers to areas where nuclear activities are being carried out or suspected of being carried out, including sites. Much more important than my view on verifiability, the President also such sites have to be open to IAEA inspection.

From ABC News:

The framework says sanctions put in place over Iran's nuclear program will be suspended once international monitors verify that Tehran is abiding by the limitations spelled out in the agreement. Rhodes said the International Atomic Energy Agency will have to inspect military sites.

An essential part of the deal, he said, is "having the IAEA ability to inspect suspicious sites, no matter where they are."


White House: Iran Deal Requires Phased Sanctions Removal - ABC News

Tying a comprehensive nuclear agreement to a resolution of the IAEA's investigation into the PMDs is unnecessary and risks derailing a deal.

I'm not suggesting that resolution of those issues be linked to an agreement. My point was that whether or not Iran is forthcoming on resolving those matters will provide much insight into Iran's intentions. The agreement itself will need to be specific, restrict nuclear activities to peaceful purposes (which would need to be detailed so that there is no ambiguity there), and subject to robust verification. Right now, it appears some significant gaps exist related to the timing of sanctions relief and, far more important IMO, verifiability. Should Iran insist on keeping military sites off limits to the IAEA, I believe that should be a deal-breaker. Moreover, it appears likely that the P5+1 will reject such limitations given the vital need for verifiability.
 
Hardliners in both Iran and the United States will not be happy. Civilized people will be happy.

Obama has proven yet again that good diplomacy works. Just think about what this man has done now: In less than one year, he has helped to thaw relations with two nations with whom we have had next to zero diplomatic ties for decades. Compare this progress with that of his predecessor!

Death to America!
 
Not at all. The framework for a deal that prevents Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons power is very much Obama's fault. It will require diligence on the parts of subsequent administrations however.

The framework is illusory. Only the Obama sheeple believe that.
 
Simpleχity;1064492669 said:
The Iranians gave up far more in the framework agreement than I ever envisioned. If some things are tweaked a bit and some other things defined a bit better, then this *could be* a very robust deal. But firstly, it must all be precisely spelled out in a universal document and signed by the Iranians. Secondly, no agreement will work unless the IAEA has access to all Iranian documents/data/facilities/materials. This includes all PMDs (Possible Military Dimensions).

And Iran has stated that won't happen.
 
I am very happy to hear that the people of Iran are enthusiastic about the nuclear agreement that has been reached. I really, really hope this works out well for them. It is a much needed chance for them and I hope they take advantage of this historic opportunity!



Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement - WSJ

Hat's off to Obama for taking this brave step. May his efforts in this regards be successful!

10 years Iran will have a Nuclear weapon
 
You did not answer my question. If any negotiations are doomed to fail, what is your suggestion?

Continue the sanctions. Make Iran ask to come to the table rather than Obama releasing billions to them just for the opportunity to talk to them.

Why do liberals have such a difficult time understanding this?
 
This is one possible consequence of what many consider to be a bad deal, which has no hope of passage in June, and ends with a delayed development of nuclear weapons in Iran, a country whose leadership is unstable and desires to be the major political and military power in the region. The Saudi's want the bomb now, as a result of our foolish foreign policy of leading from behind, which is really following and begging.

The Saudis wanted it before, don't kid yourself. If for no other reason than Israel has the bomb.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1064517390 said:
Continue the sanctions. Make Iran ask to come to the table rather than Obama releasing billions to them just for the opportunity to talk to them.

Why do liberals have such a difficult time understanding this?

They did. You want them to surrender, not come to the table to bargain.

Which is fine, but at least say it.
 
You mean that the GOP President starting in 2017 won't stop them?

Unless the Country then goes to War with Iran noting will stop them.
 
Unless the Country then goes to War with Iran noting will stop them.

So you're already admitting defeat for your President. At least you're not making pre-cuses.
 
So you're already admitting defeat for your President. At least you're not making pre-cuses.

My President? I'm not part of the GOP and I'm not voting Republican this election.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1064517390 said:
Continue the sanctions. Make Iran ask to come to the table rather than Obama releasing billions to them just for the opportunity to talk to them.

Why do liberals have such a difficult time understanding this?

The US is not the only "Game in Town", there are plenty of countries willing to do business with Iran. Russia & Iran are already concluding arms deals with more proposed in the future.

Briefly put more hypocritical & draconian measures by the US will only drive Iran to do business elsewhere.


Iran's complaint, all along has been made clear in their UN speeches. Sadly, few Americans have read complete & accurate translations of their very rational content.

Their complaint is & has been about the egregious double standard by which Israel is rewarded with US $ Billions while maintaining a Rogue, nuclear arsenal ranking 3rd -4th in the world, Israel's illegal & unfettered Expansionist agenda, illegal Occupation & atrocities committed against a civilian population. Few Americans read of their resentment over these multiple double-standards or know of the US / West's Colonial/Historic abuses of Iran.

In light of repeated threats from the US & Israel, the Iranians regard the microscopic scrutiny of their fledgling nuclear program as not only unfair but insulting. Please read those complete & accurate translations yourself for confirmation of these sentiments.

Iran has gone along this far because of a fondness for America & the American people...NOT America's hypocritical Mid East policy which is the object of their "Death to America" enmity.

All rational people have difficulty understanding why the Iranians should accept continued sanctions, a hypocritical nuclear enforcement policy and being "made" to come to the table. Attempting to enforce unjust Policy and "making" nations humiliate themselves has, historically backfired (i.e. the Treaty of Versailles etc
 
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The Saudis wanted it before, don't kid yourself. If for no other reason than Israel has the bomb.

With the rise of Iran in the reason, it has turned from want to action
 
The US is not the only "Game in Town", there are plenty of countries willing to do business with Iran. Russia & Iran are already concluding arms deals with more proposed in the future.

Briefly put more hypocritical & draconian measures by the US will only drive Iran to do business elsewhere.
We have offered them a path to rejoin the international community but they would rather die so that the 12th imam can rise up and take over the Earth.


Iran's complaint, all along has been made clear in their UN speeches. Sadly, few Americans have read complete & accurate translations of their very rational content.
There is nothing rational about Iran's ratings.


Their complaint is & has been about the egregious double standard by which Israel is rewarded with US $ Billions while maintaining a Rogue,
nuclear arsenal ranking 3rd -4th in the world, Israel's illegal & unfettered Expansionist agenda, illegal Occupation & atrocities committed against a civilian population. Few Americans read of their resentment over these multiple double-standards or know of the US / West's Colonial/Historic abuses of Iran.
Israel has never threatened its neighbors and only developed nuclear weapons long after they had been attacked over and over by the Arabs that want them all dead.


In light of repeated threats from the US & Israel, the Iranians regard the microscopic scrutiny of their fledgling nuclear program as not only unfair but insulting. Please read those complete & accurate translations yourself for confirmation of these sentiments.
Why should the US or Israel leave Iran to create nuclear weapons when Iran's leaders call for death to America and promise to incinerate Israel as soon as they get a nuclear weapon??


Iran has gone along this far because of a fondness for America & the American people...NOT America's hypocritical Mid East policy which is the object of their "Death to America" enmity.
So the leader of Iran chanting "Death to America" a couple of days ago was an expression of love for our people??


All rational people have difficulty understanding why the Iranians should accept continued sanctions, a hypocritical nuclear enforcement policy and being "made" to come to the table. Attempting to enforce unjust Policy and "making" nations humiliate themselves has, historically backfired (i.e. the Treaty of Versailles etc
Not one rational person on the plant has difficulty understanding why the Iranians should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons when Iran is the greatest threat to world stability right now.
Iran has its terrorist proxies fighting all over the Middle East witht eh stated goal to destroy Israel and America.

 
They did. You want them to surrender, not come to the table to bargain.

Which is fine, but at least say it.

I don't know what I wrote that is so difficult for you to understand.
 
So you're already admitting defeat for your President. At least you're not making pre-cuses.

Obama is letting the cat out of the bag, not a Republican president. I don't know what's so difficult to understand about that either.
 
The US is not the only "Game in Town", there are plenty of countries willing to do business with Iran. Russia & Iran are already concluding arms deals with more proposed in the future.

Briefly put more hypocritical & draconian measures by the US will only drive Iran to do business elsewhere.


Iran's complaint, all along has been made clear in their UN speeches. Sadly, few Americans have read complete & accurate translations of their very rational content.

Their complaint is & has been about the egregious double standard by which Israel is rewarded with US $ Billions while maintaining a Rogue, nuclear arsenal ranking 3rd -4th in the world, Israel's illegal & unfettered Expansionist agenda, illegal Occupation & atrocities committed against a civilian population. Few Americans read of their resentment over these multiple double-standards or know of the US / West's Colonial/Historic abuses of Iran.

In light of repeated threats from the US & Israel, the Iranians regard the microscopic scrutiny of their fledgling nuclear program as not only unfair but insulting. Please read those complete & accurate translations yourself for confirmation of these sentiments.

Iran has gone along this far because of a fondness for America & the American people...NOT America's hypocritical Mid East policy which is the object of their "Death to America" enmity.

All rational people have difficulty understanding why the Iranians should accept continued sanctions, a hypocritical nuclear enforcement policy and being "made" to come to the table. Attempting to enforce unjust Policy and "making" nations humiliate themselves has, historically backfired (i.e. the Treaty of Versailles etc

So Iran is jealous of the US relationship with Israel? I don't think so. There is no double standard, except what one hears from supporters of Iran's oppressive regime.

Israel and the US are allies. Iran and the US are not. Israel hasn't been showing their citizens, as well as religious leaders, chanting death to America on state sponsored TV.

I have no problems with negotiating, except the Obama administration has been giving away the farm ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) and getting nothing in return, except accusations of lies and "death to America" chants.

Anyone who thinks Iran will adhere to any nuclear agreement is delusional.
 
So what is the RW strategy? Assuming President Romney, what would he be doing about Iran? Wagging his finger menacingly?

You didn't want a deal, and there you go. No deal. Which doesn't make Iran further away from a nuclear weapon.

MORE sanctions, less lies.

Wow, that was easy
 
10 years Iran will have a Nuclear weapon

Well, Netanyahu has been saying they are months away from having one since the early nineties.
 
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