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Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

There isn't any agreement. The Iranians disavowed it within hours of it's announcement by claiming that the US was lying about it.

Seems to be a recurring problem with Obama and his administration, this lying thing.
That, and his conveniently not knowing anything about anything until after it hits the papers.

That means nothing. Iran is still insisting on immediate sanctions relief and continued use of centrifuges. Unless the US completely caves and goes back on everything they have said there will be no final agreement.

The appearance of progress is illusory. The hope for progress is naive beyond stupidity.

Ordinary Iranians are hoping this means an end to sanctions. The White House has repeatedly said that sanctions don't come off until the Iranians prove themselves trustworthy and capable of adhering to the agreement, which is never going to happen.

Yep. Would seem to be the case on all counts.

Obama has done nothing good at all. His policies have destablized the region, and now ISIS is tearing all over the fertile crescent and taking heads. Yemen has fallen. Libya is a haven for international terrorists. Israel has been alienated. Iraq is falling into Iranian hands. Iran is still going to get a bomb and has taken control over more territory than ever.

Indeed. And this destabilization, including the rise of ISIS, can be traced right back to the two SoF agreements that he couldn't be bothered with.

This is a MASSIVE victory to Iran. They are getting an entire huge modern Air Force and Army out of this deal, the government can declare they broke the will of the United States, and can laugh at every USA ally in the region.

More accurately, I think they broke the will of Obama, recognizing that he was easily exploitable and easily manipulable in his present desperation for a deal, hell, any deal, with Iran. Yes, Obama's a know weak leader in the ME, hence the increase in the boldness of the Islamic Militant Fundamentalists and their attacks and land acquisitions. They really believe that they can get away with it, with this US president, and to date, they are and they have.

Obama has engaged in good diplomacy, not war mongering.

Calling this good diplomacy would seem to be a stretch, in that Obama gave up so much, and got so little in return. Isn't good diplomacy supposed result in about an even level of concessions between the two parties? Don't think that this applies to this executive agreement.

The U.S. got something in return.

What might that have been? What significant concessions has Iran made to this deal? 'Cause I'm sorry, I'm not seeing it.
 
Iran knows how to enrich uranium, that is the bottom line. You will not change the fact that they know exactly how to enrich uranium by bombing them.

Who advocated bombing them>


As such, they way forward is inspections and integrating them into the international community that minimizes the chances that Iran will develop a bomb. We fought a terrible war with both Germany and Japan. Although both are capable, neither country is developing nuclear weapons because they have been integrated into the international community.

How do you plan on integrating a pan-islamic expansionist fascist theocratic regime into the international community? Have you forgotten many of those IED's used to kill Americans were stamped "made in iran"? do you not realize who they back in yemen?

Are you for real?

Marg bar Âmrikâ!

In Iran, president praises nuclear deal, public has mixed reactions - LA Times


See not all people cheering, some still call for our deaths....


But lets give them nuclear capability. Smart move!
 
No it does mean something. You simply don't want it to mean anything.

Nothing would make me happier than if Iran actually did give up its designs on nuclear weapons. They just haven't and they won't. Reasonable people can see that much.


They have agreed to a suspension of sanctions that is proportional to the verification of the steps taken such as the redesign of a reactor.

Nope, they disavowed that. They are still demanding immediate lifting of sanctions.

They have agreed to cut the number of centrifuges to under 6000.

Yeah, centrifuges that are six times more efficient than the old ones. They're getting upgrades, not cutbacks, assuming they even adhere to that much of any agreement.

It is illusory in your mind, not in the minds of reasonable people around the world.

Reasonable people are not as delusional as you guys are.

Wishful dreaming is fine for the children. The adults must deal with reality.
 
And how is it that the framework for a deal that prevents Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, is bending over and taking it, hmm?
Prevents them? Nah, at best slows it, and that's only if they decide to all the sudden start being open and honest.

Man, libs are gullible.
 
What did you expect when two Muslims get together they agree on stuff. You know when something stinks when our stupid prezz stands before an audience and say it(the agreement) is not as bad as it was before. So, you are dying of leukemia but at least it ain't no cancer baby! Way to go prezzz
 
What might that have been? What significant concessions has Iran made to this deal? 'Cause I'm sorry, I'm not seeing it.

Iran has about 20,000 centrifuges, they have agreed to cut that number to less than 6000. That is a 70 percent reduction and is rather significant. Iran has agreed to modify the Arak nuclear reactor such that it can produce an limited amount of fuel only. That is significant. They have agreed to reduce their stockpile of nuclear material, that is significant.
 
Well then, so you are for indisciminent killing, wars of choice, and arming or giving capability to those hostile to us. For what end?

Nope. I think that there are circumstances in which war is necessary.
 
Hardliners in both Iran and the United States will not be happy. Civilized people will be happy.

Obama has proven yet again that good diplomacy works. Just think about what this man has done now: In less than one year, he has helped to thaw relations with two nations with whom we have had next to zero diplomatic ties for decades. Compare this progress with that of his predecessor!

He hasn't done anything any treaty has to be ratified by the congress. he can't agree to anything without congressional approval.
 
Prevents them? Nah, at best slows it, and that's only if they decide to all the sudden start being open and honest.

Man, libs are gullible.

Obama can't prevent Iran from acquiring nukes forever. He's president for less than two years remaining. This effort will require diligence. The next administration will need to continue the effort.
 
Obama can't prevent Iran from acquiring nukes forever. He's president for less than two years remaining. This effort will require diligence. The next administration will need to continue the effort.



Already setting it up for "not obama's fault". lol
 
Already setting it up for "not obama's fault". lol

Not at all. The framework for a deal that prevents Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons power is very much Obama's fault. It will require diligence on the parts of subsequent administrations however.
 
Yeah, centrifuges that are six times more efficient than the old ones.
Not according to the framework (JCPOA) agreement. Iran can only operate IR-1 centrifuges. These are their original models made from the blueprints of a dated Urenco European model stolen by A.Q Khan and sold to the Iranians. Their more advanced centrifuges will be mothballed and secured by the IAEA.

6,104 IR-1 centrifuge units will be barely enough to feed the generating reactor at Natanz and provide a bit extra LEU for research, medicine, industry, etc.
 
Iran has about 20,000 centrifuges, they have agreed to cut that number to less than 6000. That is a 70 percent reduction and is rather significant. Iran has agreed to modify the Arak nuclear reactor such that it can produce an limited amount of fuel only. That is significant. They have agreed to reduce their stockpile of nuclear material, that is significant.

OK.

Is this agreement going to significantly reduce the chance that they'll build a bomb anyway? Or is this just unneeded window dressing that the Iranians wanted to give away anyway?

The goal here isn't to just get an agreement, the goal needs to be to prevent Iran from being able to build a bomb, period, or at least for a very, very long time.

The last thing that the Middle East needs, as unstable as it is right now and will be for the foreseeable future, is a nuclear arms race, with religious leaders with extremists ideologies with their fingers on the buttons.

So is this agreement going to achieve those goals? At best the answer comes back as 'we'll see', and nothing more solid than that. So really, even with the agreement in place and faithfully executed by all parties, the Middle Eat, and the rest of the world, isn't nearly out of the woods yet.

In fact, things have gotten worse, from the stand point that a known financial and material supporter of Islamic Militant Fundamentalist has stepped into the vacuum in the region left by Obama's shrinking away and withdrawing from that very region.
 
Simpleχity;1064492601 said:
Not according to the framework (JCPOA) agreement. Iran can only operate IR-1 centrifuges. These are their original models made from the blueprints of a dated Urenco European model stolen by A.Q Khan and sold to the Iranians. Their more advanced centrifuges will be mothballed and secured by the IAEA.

6,104 IR-1 centrifuge units will be barely enough to feed the generating reactor at Natanz and provide a bit extra LEU for research, medicine, industry, etc.

Which is what Iran has maintained they've wanted all along and the cause for Iranian celebrations in the streets.
 
Left wingers already cheering victories for fascist regimes. no 3....2...1... needed.

Ahhhh back to supposedly being in favor of diplomacy makes you a "fascist regime" supporter... This ignorant straw man talking point your known to throw around?
 
Is this agreement going to significantly reduce the chance that they'll build a bomb anyway? Or is this just unneeded window dressing that the Iranians wanted to give away anyway?
The Iranians gave up far more in the framework agreement than I ever envisioned. If some things are tweaked a bit and some other things defined a bit better, then this *could be* a very robust deal. But firstly, it must all be precisely spelled out in a universal document and signed by the Iranians. Secondly, no agreement will work unless the IAEA has access to all Iranian documents/data/facilities/materials. This includes all PMDs (Possible Military Dimensions).
 
Ahhhh back to supposedly being in favor of diplomacy makes you a "fascist regime" supporter... This ignorant straw man talking point your known to throw around?



It's not a strawman, nor is it ignorant. it's an oppressive intolerant regime, you are in favor of benefiting them despite thier oppressive theocratic fascism. It's a country that's been hostile, built ied's that killed americans, and has pan-islamic caliphate aspirations.

Just like the arab spring, we are helping bad guys get what they want.
 
It's not a strawman, nor is it ignorant. it's an oppressive intolerant regime, you are in favor of benefiting them despite thier oppressive theocratic fascism. It's a country that's been hostile, built ied's that killed americans, and has pan-islamic caliphate aspirations.

Just like the arab spring, we are helping bad guys get what they want.

America is the worlds largest arms dealer and as such is responsible for the deaths of vastly more humans than Iran. :roll:
 
Simpleχity;1064492669 said:
The Iranians gave up far more in the framework agreement than I ever envisioned. If some things are tweaked a bit and some other things defined a bit better, then this *could be* a very robust deal. But firstly, it must all be precisely spelled out in a universal document and signed by the Iranians. Secondly, no agreement will work unless the IAEA has access to all Iranian documents/data/facilities/materials. This includes all PMDs (Possible Military Dimensions).

Seemingly you have a greater command of the situation than I.

I observe the following:

Expert Says Iran Deal Must Guarantee Snap Inspections of Nuclear Sites | CNS News
On an Iran deal, reports of concessions galore - The Washington Post
AP Exclusive: Iran may run centrifuges at fortified site - The Washington Post

This last one seems a concession which would allow Iran to continue it's nuclear program.

And in the end,
Deal or No, Iran Will Remain a Nuclear Threat - Dennis Ross - POLITICO Magazine

And I'd have to agree. My conclusion is that regardless of this Iran & P+5 agreement, seems inevitable that the unstable Middle East will be in a nuclear arms race, and that unstable ideologies and people will have their fingers on the buttons.
 
Just like the arab spring, we are helping bad guys get what they want.
It is currently impossible to put Iran's nuclear genie back in the bottle. There are three viable options.

(1) Do not interfere. (2) Retard progress via diplomatic means. (3) Retard progress via military means.

No matter which option is utilized, the genie does not forever vanish.

The sensible choice then, is to pursue the least onerous option which is what the P5+1 is attempting to accomplish at Lusanne.
 
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