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E.U. and Iran Announce Framework for Nuclear Deal

Oh the can level -bomb the sites, then what?


that puts them back to square one is what

they have to start all over again

might they eventually get the bomb if we did that? maybe.....but it wouldnt be anytime soon

and dont you know....kicking the can down the road is what we do best

putting off problems to the next generation
 
Oh!

A pissing match between pundits!

Generally makes for sound foreign policy.

:roll:

Oh, come on, It's Pat Buchanan. You know, Pat Bucha.......





never mind
:(
 
Any deal that makes Dick Cheney and his neocon minions sad is a good day. :)

How amazing that the Far Right will be unable to credit Obama for doing what no president, including their messiah, Ronald Reagan, since Jimmy Carter has done. But it doesn't matter, because Obama did it not because of the Far Right, but in spite of the Far Right. Their tears are delicious. :)
 
Moreover if we jumped.....then there will be a few others.

At the cost of how many hundreds of thousands of Israeli lives?

If Israel wants to go after Iran in a big way (i.e. militarily eliminate their capacity for nuclear research/production) I don't think we have any right to stop them.

But if Israel REALLY wanted to go after Iran I doubt very much that anyone would be able to stop them.

Despite the means and the constant sabre rattling there's a reason they haven't (and it probably has a lot to do with the fact that their missile defense system is still entirely insufficient to deal with the missile/rocket threat that Iran poses to their population centers).
 
If you’re looking for good news, here you go: Starting at the bottom of page two, not only has Iran agreed to “regular access” by inspectors to all of its nuclear facilities, including the fortified plant inside the mountain at Fordo, but they’ve agreed to the IAEA’s “Additional Protocol,” which authorizes “snap inspections.” That had been a sticking point during the home stretch of the talks; eight days ago, Iran’s chief spokesman called snap inspections “illegal.” Unless there’s a legal wrinkle I’m missing, they ended up caving on that. They also supposedly agreed to let UN inspectors investigate suspected nuclear sites, not just sites that are already known. That’ll be useful when, not if, they eventually try to cheat by building covert enrichment sites under the IAEA’s nose. Iran, meanwhile, gets to sell this as a victory back home insofar as they haven’t agreed to close any site that’s already operating. (They have, however, agreed not to build any new ones, another important point when they inevitably try to cheat.) Even Fordo will keep operating with centrifuges in place, albeit as a monitored “research” facility with no uranium allowed on the premises......snip~



Looks like Fordo will keep operating with centrifuges in place. Despite being a research facility that they say no uranium will be allowed on the premises.

Will Iran also stop big-time funding of terrorism, or wasn't that little detail discussed at any time in the past months and months of negotiations? :thumbdown:
 
Menendez on the 2nd post in this thread--who would have guessed--again?
You head what you wanted today--not what was said.
Sanctions cannot be removed for at least 3 months after the June deadline--and then only gradually--and then only with severely strict oversight.

But heh, Bibi and the GOP Bozos just say NO--hell NO--fear mongering and warmongering for the MIC .


That was BO standing up there saying that it is either his deal or go to War. Wasn't hard to miss in the video. :lol:

Yeah sanctions can be eased off and there is the threat of snapback sanctions. But then first you would have to know about how that process works. Which isn't saying much.




As for sanctions, they’re not lifted “immediately.” The IAEA first has to verify that Iran has met all of its obligations on centrifuges, Fordo, inspections, and its reactor at Arak before sanctions are lifted. If at any point down the road Iran violates the deal, “snapback sanctions” will go into effect. Which sounds nice until you grasp the politics of what that would mean:

Politically, at the U.S., EU, and UNSC levels, respectively, there would have to be agreement that there is sufficient evidence of Iranian non-compliance to warrant a decision to reinstate the sanctions. There are bound to be significant disputes on the evidence, differing assessments of the seriousness of infractions, fierce debates about the appropriate level of response, and concerns about Iranian retaliation. The snapback is equally challenging to implement given the economic realities that will follow a nuclear deal. International sanctions took years before a critical mass of international companies terminated their business ties with Tehran. Once loosened, with so many international companies positioning to get back into Iran, it will be difficult to persuade these companies to leave again, especially as Western companies, and their lobby groups, will argue that Chinese, Russian, Turkish, and other less cooperative countries are bound to backfill if they do.

Realistically, once sanctions go bye-bye they’re not coming back unless Iran flouts the terms of the agreement in an unusually visible, undeniable way. Which it won’t.....snip~




Whats missing from the deal Nimby. Do you even have a clue as to what it was?
 
Will Iran also stop big-time funding of terrorism, or wasn't that little detail discussed at any time in the past months and months of negotiations? :thumbdown:

According to the link provided by TDS:

U.S. sanctions on Iran for terrorism, human rights abuses, and ballistic missiles will remain in place under the deal.

So that appears to be a whole nuther deal.
 
If you’re looking for good news, here you go: Starting at the bottom of page two, not only has Iran agreed to “regular access” by inspectors to all of its nuclear facilities, including the fortified plant inside the mountain at Fordo, but they’ve agreed to the IAEA’s “Additional Protocol,” which authorizes “snap inspections.” That had been a sticking point during the home stretch of the talks; eight days ago, Iran’s chief spokesman called snap inspections “illegal.” Unless there’s a legal wrinkle I’m missing, they ended up caving on that. They also supposedly agreed to let UN inspectors investigate suspected nuclear sites, not just sites that are already known. That’ll be useful when, not if, they eventually try to cheat by building covert enrichment sites under the IAEA’s nose. Iran, meanwhile, gets to sell this as a victory back home insofar as they haven’t agreed to close any site that’s already operating. (They have, however, agreed not to build any new ones, another important point when they inevitably try to cheat.) Even Fordo will keep operating with centrifuges in place, albeit as a monitored “research” facility with no uranium allowed on the premises......snip~



Looks like Fordo will keep operating with centrifuges in place. Despite being a research facility that they say no uranium will be allowed on the premises.

Yea. Also more good news. "Almost two-thirds of Fordow’s centrifuges and infrastructure will be removed." The ones that are allowed to stay are to be inspected, ensured that they are for research only, and inspected whenever the international community wants.
 
Will Iran also stop big-time funding of terrorism, or wasn't that little detail discussed at any time in the past months and months of negotiations? :thumbdown:

If that was part of negotiations, then literally we would of gone nowhere. Iran would ask of us the same thing, "will you stop supporting organizations we consider terrorist organizations as well?". We would be stuck back in 2002-2003 still if that was apart of the negotiations.
 
Outstanding post MMC--until this part:

Whats missing from the deal Nimby. Do you even have a clue as to what it was?
 
Yea. Also more good news. "Almost two-thirds of Fordow’s centrifuges and infrastructure will be removed." The ones that are allowed to stay are to be inspected, ensured that they are for research only, and inspected whenever the international community wants.



Yeah, but that's not what you said in your other post about Fordo. So you were wrong. Centrifuges will continue to spin. Oh and Uranium not being on the Premises, isn't a difficult problem to get around.
 
If you’re looking for good news, here you go: Starting at the bottom of page two, not only has Iran agreed to “regular access” by inspectors to all of its nuclear facilities, including the fortified plant inside the mountain at Fordo, but they’ve agreed to the IAEA’s “Additional Protocol,” which authorizes “snap inspections.” That had been a sticking point during the home stretch of the talks; eight days ago, Iran’s chief spokesman called snap inspections “illegal.” Unless there’s a legal wrinkle I’m missing, they ended up caving on that. They also supposedly agreed to let UN inspectors investigate suspected nuclear sites, not just sites that are already known. That’ll be useful when, not if, they eventually try to cheat by building covert enrichment sites under the IAEA’s nose. Iran, meanwhile, gets to sell this as a victory back home insofar as they haven’t agreed to close any site that’s already operating. (They have, however, agreed not to build any new ones, another important point when they inevitably try to cheat.) Even Fordo will keep operating with centrifuges in place, albeit as a monitored “research” facility with no uranium allowed on the premises......snip~



Looks like Fordo will keep operating with centrifuges in place. Despite being a research facility that they say no uranium will be allowed on the premises.

Where does it say that?

In any case, we've been using centrifuges for bio-medical research for years. While I understand the skepticism where Iran is concerned, the only way we'll know for sure that they are using their centrifuges for the same thing - bio-medical research - is to be able to test/inspect on a regular basis.

Just as the U.S. and the world gave Russia a chance to prove that they would scale back their nuclear weapons production, the same "trust but verify" framework needs to be allowed to go forward with Iran. Otherwise, how would you know they're holding true to the agreement?

From the OP article:

According to European officials, roughly 5,000 centrifuges will remain spinning enriched uranium at the main nuclear site at Natanz, about half the number currently running. The giant underground enrichment site at Fordo — which Israeli and some American officials fear is impervious to bombing — will be partly converted to advanced nuclear research and the production of medical isotopes. Foreign scientists will be present. There will be no fissile material present that could be used to make a bomb.

A major reactor at Arak, which officials feared could produce plutonium, would operate on a limited basis that would not provide enough fuel for a bomb.

In return, the European Union and the United States would begin to lift sanctions, as Iran complied.

That last part should prove to satisfy most folks. It's not a full, immediate lifting of the sanctions. It will be gradual as originally agreed on as Iran comes more and more into compliance.

Should the framework for an agreement as addressed above remains in place, I think most people could live with that.
 
Yeah, but that's not what you said in your other post about Fordo. So you were wrong.
Centrifuges have more use than just to enrich uranium, and this is stated in the agreement. "Iran has agreed to reduce by approximately two-thirds its installed centrifuges. Iran will go from having about 19,000 installed today to 6,104 installed under the deal, with only 5,060 of these enriching uranium for 10 years. All 6,104 centrifuges will be IR-1s, Iran’s first-generation centrifuge". It can use them, but it cannot use them to enrich uranium at Fordow

Centrifuges will continue to spin.
Yup, under constant and, "All centrifuges and related infrastructure will be placed under IAEA monitoring"

Oh and Uranium not being on the Premises, isn't a difficult problem to get around.
Yes it is. Especially when the international community is constantly watching you.
 
that puts them back to square one is what

they have to start all over again

might they eventually get the bomb if we did that? maybe.....but it wouldnt be anytime soon

and dont you know....kicking the can down the road is what we do best

putting off problems to the next generation
Sanctions brought them to the table. Then factor in how often the West interfered in Iran.
So not much love between the 2 groups. Like Regan said- trust but verify.
The Iranian economy has cratered.
If the mess up, sanctions can be reimposed.
 
At the cost of how many hundreds of thousands of Israeli lives?

If Israel wants to go after Iran in a big way (i.e. militarily eliminate their capacity for nuclear research/production) I don't think we have any right to stop them.

But if Israel REALLY wanted to go after Iran I doubt very much that anyone would be able to stop them.

Despite the means and the constant sabre rattling there's a reason they haven't (and it probably has a lot to do with the fact that their missile defense system is still entirely insufficient to deal with the missile/rocket threat that Iran poses to their population centers).


None at the time.....Iran would be to busy looking to save their own. Especially at their alleged hidden facility in Tehran too.

Moreover the Saud and the Sunni would want to get in.....make sure the Shia knows about a little payback. Truthfully Israel could sit it out and enjoy the show, if we were to jump.

Still Iran knows it would get wiped off the map if we so desired to make it happen. Which is why its absurd to think they would want to declare any type of War.

BO was making to much out of that. Deflecting from all the money that can be made by businesses all around the World, just with opening Iran up for business.
 
Will Iran also stop big-time funding of terrorism, or wasn't that little detail discussed at any time in the past months and months of negotiations? :thumbdown:

That is a side issue.
Same as the US can tackle the Iranian proxies in the ME.
 
Where does it say that?

In any case, we've been using centrifuges for bio-medical research for years. While I understand the skepticism where Iran is concerned, the only way we'll know for sure that they are using their centrifuges for the same thing - bio-medical research - is to be able to test/inspect on a regular basis.

Just as the U.S. and the world gave Russia a chance to prove that they would scale back their nuclear weapons production, the same "trust but verify" framework needs to be allowed to go forward with Iran. Otherwise, how would you know they're holding true to the agreement?

From the OP article:



That last part should prove to satisfy most folks. It's not a full, immediate lifting of the sanctions. It will be gradual as originally agreed on as Iran comes more and more into compliance.

Should the framework for an agreement as addressed above remains in place, I think most people could live with that.



Right here on Page one of the fact sheet. Do note what it says about Fordo. Did you want to dispute it didn't say that they would keep Fordo up and going?


Fact sheet from State Department: Parameters of plan on Iran nuclear program - The Washington Post


So now tell us......whats it say about Iran's Current Stockpile of low grade uranium? Where is that going to be now?
 
Sanctions brought them to the table. Then factor in how often the West interfered in Iran.
So not much love between the 2 groups. Like Regan said- trust but verify.
The Iranian economy has cratered.
If the mess up, sanctions can be reimposed.



Sanctions can't be re-imposed that easily. It would have to be a sheer outright public violation just for all to agree.
 
None at the time.....Iran would be to busy looking to save their own. Especially at their alleged hidden facility in Tehran too.

Moreover the Saud and the Sunni would want to get in.....make sure the Shia knows about a little payback. Truthfully Israel could sit it out and enjoy the show, if we were to jump.

Still Iran knows it would get wiped off the map if we so desired to make it happen. Which is why its absurd to think they would want to declare any type of War.

BO was making to much out of that. Deflecting from all the money that can be made by businesses all around the World, just with opening Iran up for business.

The entire world has been against this deal from day one. What has changed? We don't even know the details yet, and I do question that, but why the secrecy? Iran sees "progress?" What have we
promised to Iran? Are any of the foreign newspapers from the countries involved in the talks explaining things to their people?
 
Sanctions can't be re-imposed that easily. It would have to be a sheer outright public violation just for all to agree.
Any interference with IAEA inspections would qualify as non compliance.
http://www.armscontrol.org/files/Pa...ublic-of-Irans-Nuclear-Program-2015-04-02.pdf
A dispute resolution process will be specified, which enables any JCPOA participant, to seek to resolve disagreements about the performance of JCPOA commitments.

If an issue of significant non-performance cannot be resolved through that process
then all previous UN sanctions could be reimposed.
Important inspections and transparency measures will continue well beyond 15 years.
Iran’s adherence to the Additional Protocol of the IAEA is permanent, including its significant access and transparency obligations.
The robust inspections of Iran’s uranium supply chain will last for 25 years.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/03/w...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Even two of the most skeptical experts on the negotiations — Gary Samore and Olli Heinonen of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard and members of a group call United Against Nuclear Iran — said they were impressed with the depth of detail.

Mr. Samore, who was Mr. Obama’s top adviser on weapons of mass destruction in his first term as president, said in an email that there is “much detail to be negotiated but I think it’s enough to be called a political framework.” Just a day ago, that appeared in doubt.
 


;)

The Iranian delegation, led by the foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, only wants a vague joint statement, while the US secretary of state, John Kerry, needs to bring back specifics to Washington to convince Congress not to impose new sanctions.

The compromise, say European diplomats, would be a joint statement of understanding and two or three pages of agreed “parameters” setting out points agreed by Iran and the six world powers taking part in the Lausanne talks. Those details would not be made public but would be briefed to governments and to Congress.

The parameters would include Iran’s enrichment capacity and its allowed stockpile of enriched uranium. They would describe the redesign of Iran’s heavy-water reactor in Arak in such a way as to produce only tiny amounts of plutonium as a byproduct. But a few issues were still unresolved on Thursday morning. The main restrictions on Iran’s nuclear programme would last 10 years, but some would last for a few years beyond that, including curbs on Iran’s development work on new centrifuges. What kind of curbs and how long they would last remain a matter of dispute. So does the timing of the lifting of some UN sanctions, including an arms embargo and a ban on the transfer of dual-use technology.....snip~

Iran nuclear talks inching towards joint statement, say European diplomats | World news | The Guardian
 
;)

The Iranian delegation, led by the foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, only wants a vague joint statement, while the US secretary of state, John Kerry, needs to bring back specifics to Washington to convince Congress not to impose new sanctions.

The compromise, say European diplomats, would be a joint statement of understanding and two or three pages of agreed “parameters” setting out points agreed by Iran and the six world powers taking part in the Lausanne talks. Those details would not be made public but would be briefed to governments and to Congress.

The parameters would include Iran’s enrichment capacity and its allowed stockpile of enriched uranium. They would describe the redesign of Iran’s heavy-water reactor in Arak in such a way as to produce only tiny amounts of plutonium as a byproduct. But a few issues were still unresolved on Thursday morning. The main restrictions on Iran’s nuclear programme would last 10 years, but some would last for a few years beyond that, including curbs on Iran’s development work on new centrifuges. What kind of curbs and how long they would last remain a matter of dispute. So does the timing of the lifting of some UN sanctions, including an arms embargo and a ban on the transfer of dual-use technology.....snip~

Iran nuclear talks inching towards joint statement, say European diplomats | World news | The Guardian

Iran needs this more than the US. Iran knows that Obama must have points clearly laid out in order to prevent further sanctions imposed by Congress.


Inspectors will have access to the supply chain that supports Iran’s nuclear program
The new transparency and inspections mechanisms will closely monitor materials and/or components to
prevent diversion to a secret program
However, core provisions in the UN Security Council resolutions those that deal with
transfers of sensitive technologies and activities –will be re-established by a new UN
Security Council resolution that will endorse the JCPOA and urge its full implementation
It will also create the procurement channel mentioned above, which will serve as a key transparency measure.
Important restrictions on conventional arms and ballistic missiles, as well as provisions that allow for
related cargo inspections and asset freezes, will also be incorporated by this new resolution–
 
Any deal that makes Dick Cheney and his neocon minions sad is a good day. :)

How amazing that the Far Right will be unable to credit Obama for doing what no president, including their messiah, Ronald Reagan, since Jimmy Carter has done. But it doesn't matter, because Obama did it not because of the Far Right, but in spite of the Far Right. Their tears are delicious. :)

You forgot the Carter years

Iran taking more than 60 Americans hostage. "From the moment the hostages were seized until they were released minutes after Ronald Reagan took the oath of office as president 444 days later,"
 
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