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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

No one said it is rocket science, but food preparation is just that food preparation.
What degree of separation must exist in your opinion to render an activity non-participation? Does a wedding dress maker participate in a lesbian wedding? How about a miner in a shooting? The ore was turned into steel that was used to make a gun.

Once again, that bit of abstraction is not necessary. This was specifically about catering a gay wedding. Despite the rarity of there being a pizza catered wedding.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

If you thinking of that as "participating," that's on you. I would think of it as "offering the same service I offer to the rest of my customers."

And in this case catering a gay wedding is not something the business offers to the rest of their customers.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Once again, that bit of abstraction is not necessary. This was specifically about catering a gay wedding. Despite the rarity of there being a pizza catered wedding.
We are trying to establish what participation is, as it is the participation that is being objected to.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I don't care if you're so atheist, you make Richard Dawkins looks like a raving Christian fundamentalist by comparison. The issue that blew this up was Christians wanting to discriminate against gays based on their religion.

Really? When did this happen? All I have heard of was a Christian baker not wanting to bake a wedding cake for a gay marriage ceremony, because same-sex marriage violates the tenets of their religion.

I do want to know though how Christians who have been forced to do business with gays have been dealing with it thus far. Have they just accepted they're going to hell? Are they going to confessional? Are they closing their businesses en masse?

You'd have to ask them, although how they may feel about it would be totally irrelevant. The question is, are they discriminating against gay people or not.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

And in this case catering a gay wedding is not something the business offers to the rest of their customers.

Ha ha, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's one's been tried already. "We offer the same service we offer to everyone else: serving white customers." You think you're the first genius to think of that "loophole?"
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Really? When did this happen? All I have heard of was a Christian baker not wanting to bake a wedding cake for a gay marriage ceremony, because same-sex marriage violates the tenets of their religion.



You'd have to ask them, although how they may feel about it would be totally irrelevant. The question is, are they discriminating against gay people or not.

Well, until I know how they're dealing with it, I'm going to have to lump it in with how everyone else deals with irritating business regulations: they don't like it, but they just do it anyway because running your own business is ultimately pretty cool.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

We are trying to establish what participation is, as it is the participation that is being objected to.

No, you are trying to decide what participation means for other folks when you know they have already defined it as participation for themselves.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I would be happy to have my painting hang in the Gay Marriage History Museum. I wouldn't be so happy to have my portrait hanging in the Ku Klux Klan hall of fame, but such is the way of things.

I'll assume that the veiled "you're a racist" insult indicates you don't have a reasonable reply to my post.

In that case, have a nice day.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

No, you are trying to decide what participation means for other folks when you know they have already defined it as participation for themselves.
So there should not be a common understanding of what is participation?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Well, until I know how they're dealing with it, I'm going to have to lump it in with how everyone else deals with irritating business regulations: they don't like it, but they just do it anyway because running your own business is ultimately pretty cool.

You still haven't pointed out the incident of discrimination you referred to before?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Ha ha, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's one's been tried already. "We offer the same service we offer to everyone else: serving white customers." You think you're the first genius to think of that "loophole?"

Except it's NOT a loophole here just as it wasn't when used against blacks. When used against blacks it was illegal, or became so. In this instance, there is no sexual orientation clause in Indiana's PA law. Nor in the US Constitution. Nor is it a federally protected class.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I'll assume that the veiled "you're a racist" insult indicates you don't have a reasonable reply to my post.

In that case, have a nice day.

Nope, not at all. That's a reference to previous research I've done on my own. I was curious if I could get away with discriminating against a KKK member by not painting their portrait, based solely on their distasteful beliefs. The answer is: I couldn't. Someone has already been sued for discriminating against a klan member, so odds are looking pretty good that if commissioned to paint a klan member's portrait (in the style I normally do), then I would just have to suck it up and do it.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

So there should not be a common understanding of what is participation?

Nope, it's subjective to belief. The whole point of religious objection.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I would be happy to have my painting hang in the Gay Marriage History Museum. I wouldn't be so happy to have my portrait hanging in the Ku Klux Klan hall of fame, but such is the way of things.

For what it is worth I hope you and your partner can marry in your state and that you are blissfully happy.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Nope, not at all. That's a reference to previous research I've done on my own. I was curious if I could get away with discriminating against a KKK member by not painting their portrait, based solely on their distasteful beliefs. The answer is: I couldn't. Someone has already been sued for discriminating against a klan member, so odds are looking pretty good that if commissioned to paint a klan member's portrait (in the style I normally do), then I would just have to suck it up and do it.

Well, two comments. One, you might indeed object if they insisted on wearing their nazi uniform with a button of a lynching on the lapel. Two, unfortunately they're probably covered by the state's PA law, unlike sexual orientation.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Except it's NOT a loophole here just as it wasn't when used against blacks. When used against blacks it was illegal, or became so. In this instance, there is no sexual orientation clause in Indiana's PA law. Nor in the US Constitution. Nor is it a federally protected class.

True, and it's resulted in a lot of chaos in the courts over it. Based on the trend of things, you can expect that to change in the foreseeable future.

Even now, I wouldn't bank on the "We serve straight clients" argument working out very well for you.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Nope, not at all. That's a reference to previous research I've done on my own. I was curious if I could get away with discriminating against a KKK member by not painting their portrait, based solely on their distasteful beliefs. The answer is: I couldn't. Someone has already been sued for discriminating against a klan member, so odds are looking pretty good that if commissioned to paint a klan member's portrait (in the style I normally do), then I would just have to suck it up and do it.

Are you incapable of grasping concepts? I was just wondering because it gets tiring having to spend time explaining every situation to someone, when a concept is right in front of them.

So if you really have a conceptual disability, speak up and I will slow the pace down for you and explain things in a way you can comprehend.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Well, two comments. One, you might indeed object if they insisted on wearing their nazi uniform with a button of a lynching on the lapel. Two, unfortunately they're probably covered by the state's PA law, unlike sexual orientation.

I wouldn't have to do any painting that is not consistent with the normal subject matter I do. It's not, in essence, "on my menu" any more than a Muslim deli is forced to make a ham sandwich.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Are you incapable of grasping concepts? I was just wondering because it gets tiring having to spend time explaining every situation to someone, when a concept is right in front of them.

So if you really have a conceptual disability, speak up and I will slow the pace down for you and explain things in a way you can comprehend.

That's just pointless ad hom. Do you have an argument to make or not?

Feel free to type slower if it makes you happy.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

True, and it's resulted in a lot of chaos in the courts over it. Based on the trend of things, you can expect that to change in the foreseeable future.

Even now, I wouldn't bank on the "We serve straight clients" argument working out very well for you.

Yeah, well, it may or may not change, that doesn't affect this discussion. And it's stupid business practice to turn away clients like that. I wouldn't do it, but then I don't have religious objections.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I'm stating your point is as fake as your picture. It hearkesn back to what was said earlier. People like you...oh...you are quick to cry ';right wing' and use words like bigot and homophobe. But as soon as its a liberal making some form of anti-gay statement or taking an anti-gay marriage position...there is ALWAYS some excuse, or reason, or rationale.

Always.

Like I said...you are as fake as your picture.

Fortunately we have you here to show us all the light... :lamo

Jesus, talk about buying one's own bull****.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Yeah, well, it may or may not change, that doesn't affect this discussion. And it's stupid business practice to turn away clients like that. I wouldn't do it, but then I don't have religious objections.

I agree. I would be forgiven by and large by the artist community for painting a KKK member. None of us would like it, but we all understand that ya gotta pay your bills.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I wouldn't have to do any painting that is not consistent with the normal subject matter I do. It's not, in essence, "on my menu" any more than a Muslim deli is forced to make a ham sandwich.

And in the same way the Muslim deli isn't making ham sandwiches the Christian pizza parlor isn't catering gay weddings. The "normal subject matter" is just a dodge. It is very much on your menu to paint portraits of people wearing what they choose to wear.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

That's just pointless ad hom. Do you have an argument to make or not?

Feel free to type slower if it makes you happy.

This coming from someone who just insinuated I was a racist.

Let me give you a clue then... Event vs. Individual.

Now answer your own damned question
 
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