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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I am not sure, are you lying now or do not know what you said before. Your words: "If I owned a restaurant, I sure as hell wouldn't cater to them..."

Cater to whom?

Would that have been NAMBLA?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

There are plenty of business regulations that if I don't follow I'll lose my business license. It's life. Also, in the extreme if a KKK client wanted to hire me, I could not legally turn him away on the basis of him being KKK. Against, it's life.



Threats of violence or harassment are illegal. Anybody caught doing those things can be prosecuted.



Boycotts are time-honored, American forms of protest. If your pr is so bad that you're starting boycotts against your company, perhaps you should get better pr.

You said they were not being forced... I replied that they were... and based on the above reply, I see you now agree with me.

Nice.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I appreciate the response. I think that's a good basis for understanding if not acceptance, which is really all we should expect of each other on matters involving religion.

In that spirit, what is relevant to a discussion on DP (as opposed to a Christianity forum) is the public policy response, and on that basis it seems to be unreasonable to ask that gays abstain from intimacy. First of all, any policy that expects that or demands it will fail because as you say, we are social creatures and loving and being loved would rank right behind water, food and shelter as the basics of a decent existence. So public policy should recognize that as a starting point, and when we do I don't see a downside to encouraging committed, monogamous, relationships. It costs my marriage nothing - it's a freebie, win-win, more happiness for those allowed to marry, no loss of happiness for anyone else. Bob and Frank marrying has the same effect on me as Newt's third marriage, and second to a mistress - nothing at all.

From a public policy standpoint, most people fear homosexuality because of the potential health and moral implications such a lifestyle could bring.

On the health front, there is the obvious - AIDS/HIV.

From a moral perspective, there's the potential breakdown of the sanctity of marriage.

In the minds of many, both situations have the potential of eroding the fabric of society and traditional marriage. This above all is what many fear most about the LGBT community. Problem here is more people die of cancer than they do of AIDS, and even without adding homosexuality into the equation more marriage still fail due to money problems, physical abuse and infidelity with a member of the opposite sex than they do from discovering that their former spouse is gay or lesbian or has some other deep, dark sexual demon in their closet.

While I agree with those who see homosexuality as a sin, I'm also of the view that this is their life and as long as no one of that lifestyle attempts to impose themselves on me personally, I adhere to the tenant "hate the sin, love the sinner".

Sidenote: I have a couple of gay friends - one male, the other female. As friendships, social interactions and casual associations go, if they aren't having public displays of affections, i.e., holding hands or kissing their significant other, I've found them to be just as normal as anyone else.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Who knew that answering some hypothetical question from a reporter from some minor pizza joint would cause so much trouble. I would hope that the US could handle allowing a small business some leeway and freedom. Guess that I was wrong. The bullies are out there.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

oh jeesh not this crap again

It isn't... I had said that "I wouldn't serve them", speaking of NAMBLA, and he falsely attributed my words to gay couples.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Who knew that answering some hypothetical question from a reporter from some minor pizza joint would cause so much trouble. I would hope that the US could handle allowing a small business some leeway and freedom. Guess that I was wrong. The bullies are out there.

As of this afternoon, the owners of the anti-gay pizza place had received more than $800,000 from online donors - yeah, the gullible are definitely out there.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I remember being raised that you never told people your politics. Religion, money, and politics were not a matter for small talk, let alone polite dinner conversation. I am not the first to see it as just bad for business. Why would you post a herald of your beliefs that offends potential customers? Their major offence wasn't in their offending the gay community; it was practicing very poor business sense.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Yes, I do tend to 'dodge' (ie ignore) ridiculous hypotheticals. More should do the same.

there was nothing ridiculous about it. What difference does it make?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

You mean the signs that say "Bakery"?

View attachment 67182702

Or all the cakes in the one shop?

View attachment 67182703

Or the book of cakes that he goes through with the other shop?

View attachment 67182704


Yeah, I think you need your eyes checked.

It is amazing how willfully ignorant you can be in order to excuse non-Christians of doing something you supposedly abhor. :roll:
But...you know...back during the Crusades, CHRISTIANS murdered lots of people and stuff!!!
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I have posed this question to Paulean moralists....

Which is worse in the eyes of God, a man and a woman living together as man and wife and not married, adultery, or gay a gay marriage, where two people have made a spiritual commitment to God?

Most smart theologians will say both are equally ugly under God.

So, then my question is "what happens then to all those priests in the middle ages who had "housekeepers" and fathered bastard children? Surnames like "Church", "Priest", "Priestly" are said to originate from that practice which went on from the fall of Rome to the enlightenment.

That's a very good question. You could add to that list those Catholic Priests who practiced (or thought they could get away with) sodomy. What happens to them when they meet St. Peter and he reads from the Book of Life? Some people believe that unless you completely repent from your sins, you're not worthy to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Others believe that as long as you live a righteous life and repent of that one sin that keeps you from having a personal relationship with God, that's good enough since man is born into sin and continues to be a sinner despite our best efforts throughout our lives.

I really don't have the answer to this one - no one among the living does. So, I'll save that for each man, woman and child to figure out after his body is placed into the Earth and his spirit goes afar. To the essence of your question, however, sin itself and how man measures one against the other, I believe you are correct. That to God, sin is sin no matter which one man commits. But I think he's be very disappointed to learn that those who live together as man and woman and not man and wife weren't taking that next step to commitment in the eye's of God alone because I think he's still see that as fornication or adultery despite how "happy" the couple professes to be. I think he'd still see gays as gays no matter what. That said, as mortal man I don't consider it my job to judge. Just as I'll have to answer for my sins when I'm before St. Peter at the Pearly Gates as he reads from the Book of Life determine if I'm worthy of passage into God's Kingdom, so will everyone else including those who live the LGBT lifestyle.

We're all pretty much happy (more or less) doing whatever it is we're doing down on God's green Earth, but at some point at some point judgement will come. I can only hope that when the time comes I've lived a good enough life in God's eyes to be worthy.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

As of this afternoon, the owners of the anti-gay pizza place had received more than $800,000 from online donors - yeah, the gullible are definitely out there.
Oh...I dont think they were all that gullible. I just think they were very invested in giving a nice healthy "**** you" to all the bull**** spewed regularly from the bitter angry hate filled Gaystapo.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Both of your sentences are wrong.

You said people can choose as they like and I agreed. Now you're saying they can't? Man, authoritarians, huh? lol
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

An Indiana pizzeria remained closed on Wednesday, embroiled in a national debate after its owners said that they would not cater gay marriages due to their religious beliefs.

Read the article here: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I don't claim to be an expert on this, but how many gay weddings are followed up by pizza parties? :roll:

My guess is that these people are declining to serve people who would never be their customers.




Groucho Marx said he would never belong to an organization that would have him as a member.

:)
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

It isn't... I had said that "I wouldn't serve them", speaking of NAMBLA, and he falsely attributed my words to gay couples.

there should be a private room for you guys to rant about nambla
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Here's the thing, you can be as prejudiced as you want in your personal life. That's just freedom of association, however, if you are going to set up shop (literally in this sense) in a town, a public area, then you have to be open to everyone, not just the people who you want.

That's why I eluded to how people who hold such religious views and want to start a business should do so as a 501(c)(3) for-profit business and make it well known that their business is a faith-based business, i.e., Hobby Lobby, Chik-fil-la, Lifeway Bookstores, a church, etc. Then you don't have these problems of patrons making unreasonable demands for a product or service you can't deliver due to your religious convictions or the government compelling you to do something that goes against your religious interests.

(Note: I originally posted "non-profit" and eluded to churches only, but I meant to include "for-profits" with religious business interests.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

That's why I eluded to how people who hold such religious views and want to start a business should do so as a 501(c)(3) for-profit business and make it well known that their business is a faith-based business, i.e., Hobby Lobby, Chik-fil-la, Lifeway Bookstores, a church, etc. Then you don't have these problems of patrons making unreasonable demands for a product or service you can't deliver due to your religious convictions or the government compelling you to do something that goes against your religious interests.
Indeed, let's marginalize Christians despite their First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Now a baker who refused to make an anti gay cake is getting death threats. Who wants to donate to them for practicing their freedom of conscience?



Cut the Cake Getting Threats over Refusal to Make Anti-Gay Cake | Mediaite

She said she was getting nasty calls about her bakery, not death threats... But I fully expect the left to turn it into "An army of right-wing militia with white hoods on surrounded the bakery with AK-47's..." by the time this makes the rounds.

As for donations, I expect some liberal front group might pony up some cash and make it look like people want to donate to the bakery, but let's face it, nobody has much sympathy for someone who supposively is taking a stand against discrimination, and then discriminates herself.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

there should be a private room for you guys to rant about nambla

I'm not the one who says business owners have to sacrifice their religious beliefs and moral ethics...
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Indeed, let's marginalize Christians despite their First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion

Oh, you're free to exercise your religious faith all you want, but if you're going to be in business you need to know that not every customer who walks through your doors will be a Christian or a Muslim or a Catholic or a Buddhist, and as such, you should be prepared to address such customers should it NOT be well known and established that your business does not cater to the needs of those whose religious views do not mirror your own.

By establishing your business as a for-profit religious entity and marketing such as a religious entity, you head off most problems that could arise due to confusion as to who you are and what products or services your establishment provides.

In short, if I were a Muslim and I entered your Christian book store I'd know that all I'd ever find in your store were Christian books. Therefore, it would be foolish of me to think I could raise a fuss that you don't stock Muslim literature in your establishment because that's just not what you do. :shrug:

Of course, you're free not to go that route of establishing your faith-based business as a for-profit company, but you should know that in not doing so you leave yourself open to the possibility of someday dealing with a customer who may create problems for you on religious grounds. Are you ready for that?

The cake baker, for example, could still bake the cake but refuse to place a "groom-and-groom" cake topper on it. Provide the name and number of a vendor who will sell the topper to the gay couple and they can order it themselves.

The photographer could take pictures of a gay wedding, just leave them out of his professional portfolio.

The caterer could still prepare the food and even deliver same, but just not serve it.

There are compromises all over the place if people look hard enough. Problem here is people don't want to look. They're too stuck on "being forced" to do something they don't want to do, being fearful of possibly being sued or the possible fallout from doing business with gays and lesbians. Well, the only way anyone really knows is if you make a big deal out of it. Don't make a big deal of it. Just find other alternatives to meet the demand or politely refuse but recommend another establishment that may meet their needs. To me, that's just good business practice.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Here's the thing, you can be as prejudiced as you want in your personal life. That's just freedom of association, however, if you are going to set up shop (literally in this sense) in a town, a public area, then you have to be open to everyone, not just the people who you want.

That's still tyranny

That's not tyranny. That's leaving open the possibility of gaining a larger market share by leaving your doors open to everyone who wants your product or service. Now, if you wish to target your company to a select clientele, you should target your marketing campaign accordingly and not stand behind "government force" as an excuse that your customer base has dwindled due to your own prejudice, bigotry or bias.

You can be selective about who your customers are without being a jerk about it (i.e., that sign in the window that reads, "No Blacks or Gays Allowed" tends to fend off more potential customers than "No Shoes, No Shirts, No Service").
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

But...you know...back during the Crusades, CHRISTIANS murdered lots of people and stuff!!!

So you are saying payback is a female dog? :mrgreen:
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

The cake baker, for example, could still bake the cake but refuse to place a "groom-and-groom" cake topper on it. Provide the name and number of a vendor who will sell the topper to the gay couple and they can order it themselves.

The photographer could take pictures of a gay wedding, just leave them out of his professional portfolio.

The caterer could still prepare the food and even deliver same, but just not serve it.

You just don't seem to get it. In all 3 of those example, those businesses are still participating in a gay wedding. It's as though you think that business owners who object to gay marriage on religious ground, just need plausible deniability, and then participating is fine and dandy. Beliefs are about consciousness, not appearances... So they either participate, or they don't... There is no in between.


There are compromises all over the place if people look hard enough. Problem here is people don't want to look. They're too stuck on "being forced" to do something they don't want to do, being fearful of possibly being sued or the possible fallout from doing business with gays and lesbians. Well, the only way anyone really knows is if you make a big deal out of it. Don't make a big deal of it. Just find other alternatives to meet the demand or politely refuse but recommend another establishment that may meet their needs. To me, that's just good business practice.

Let's face it... The only ones who are being forced to sacrifice, are the people who object to gay marriage on religious grounds. Religious freedom is a right afforded Americans in the constitution, while neither having food, a photographer and a cake at your wedding, nor demanding who provides those things, is not.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

You just don't seem to get it. In all 3 of those example, those businesses are still participating in a gay wedding. It's as though you think that business owners who object to gay marriage on religious ground, just need plausible deniability, and then participating is fine and dandy. Beliefs are about consciousness, not appearances... So they either participate, or they don't... There is no in between.




Let's face it... The only ones who are being forced to sacrifice, are the people who object to gay marriage on religious grounds. Religious freedom is a right afforded Americans in the constitution, while neither having food, a photographer and a cake at your wedding, nor demanding who provides those things, is not.

"Religious freedom" doesn't include the ability to discriminate. How far will we go with the idea of religious freedom?
 
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