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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Donations are now closed at a total of $842,387. This gave us a chance to compare conservatism in action as opposed to liberalism in action
Well yes, Stalin had followers too.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

So forcing someone to provide someone else their labor is not tyranny?
Not if they took it upon themselves to provide that labor.

Forcing someone to give up their property in trade to another person is not tyranny?
No one forced anyone to do anything. People take on to serve others when they open a business to the public.

Well, we have a very different view on tyranny, mister anarchist.
No, you just have no clue how it applies.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I suppose you also believe that if a restaurant refused to cater a NAMBLA party, they would be intolerant, anti-gay bigots too... Right?
Here is a clue in order to avoid making stupid comparisons. Introducing an illegal activity as a comparison is always a failure.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Americans don't donate money to bigots, they donate it to people who have been wrongly abused and victimized.
But bigots will support other bigots...
Sadly there is still enough of them.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

If I owned a restaurant, I sure as hell wouldn't cater to them...
I am curious. Say if you worked for company ABC Inc. as on of their executives and all of a sudden ABC Inc. declared support for gay marriage and gave large donations to make it legal everywhere. Would you quit your job?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Lost to those pushing this agenda of persecution and destruction of anyone who doesn't bow down is the fact the owners stated on video they did not discriminate against anyone in the course of doing business. What they did say is their religious beliefs would preclude them from participating in an event that goes against their faith.

Why not demand a Jew cater an event during Passover? How about demanding a Jewish Bakery cater a SSM last night?

There was no bigotry in the statements of the owners. They didn't pass judgment on gays, in fact they said the exact opposite. But that is lost on the pushers of the agenda.

Even your statement about me not liking the fact gays are human points to the BS tripe that pervades the agenda pushers. Where in anything I've ever written have I even inferred gays are not human. But that doesn't stop the storm troops from claiming it.

Pathetic.

Storm troops and agendas? Refusing to cater an event because some of the people have a sexual orientation that is cross with your beliefs, not facts mind you, leaves us all vulnerable. I don't want anybody doing anything for me, or refusing to do anything for me because the flying spaghetti god told them to. Discrimination is ugly, and we've been fighting and dying to overcome it at least since the civil war here in America, and we're not going to stop. In the end, no business is going to deny anybody service based on their race, their gender or their sexual orientation, neither of which are choices, and reason will prevail over this ugliness, you'll see.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

The true winners in all this: The gays and lesbians in Indiana.

Because of the viscous Indiana law bigots passed last week -- and the abhorrence with which people reacted to it nationwide

now --

for the first time in Indiana history: codified into law now are protections based on sexual orientation!

Pizza pop and kid hit the RW cult lottery and won buckos, but their cause is lost.

Indiana gay and lesbian citizens won by a far wider margin and are the happy recipients of a much richer moral battle.
Exactly, well said.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

BS. No law has ever forced anyone to serve anyone else. People take it on themselves to serve others when they open a business that is open to the public

There are at least two Supreme Court decisions, Hurley and Dale, that prove your assertions are false. Both involved state public accommodations laws which prohibited discrimination based on sexual orientation. And in both cases, the Court held the law as applied was unconstitutional because it violated a First Amendment right of the public accommodation involved. State public accommodations laws often extend to many things besides hotels, restaurants, and movie theaters, and extending them so far is one reason they tend to conflict with First Amendment freedoms. Where the public accommodation is mainly commercial, a duty to serve is most likely to exist, but there is no bright line between commercial association and expressive association. Justice O'Connor discussed this at length in her concurring opinion in another state public accommodations law case, Roberts v. Jaycees.

The Coeur d'Alene ordinance is another example of a law that attempted to force the very kind of service you claim "no law has ever forced." It threatened the Christian owners of a for-profit wedding chapel with fines and jail time because they declined to let their business be used for same-sex weddings. The town backed down only when the owners filed a suit in federal court. The Supreme Court has made clear in West Virginia Board of Educ. v. Barnette and later in Wooley v. Maynard that laws which compel people to endorse, propound, or celebrate views they do not agree with violate the freedom of speech.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I don't care about this topic one way or the other, but from a logical stand point,
does anyone as a customer want to force a vendor to provide a service that they have stated
they do not want to provide?
Let's switch the roles, and see how it looks.
The Grand poo bah of the KKK approaches a black BBQ shop about catering their next cross burning.
The BBQ owner politely declines, the Grand poo bah, sues and forces the BBQ shop to comply.
Would you really want to eat that BBQ?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

IOW, people are free to agree to anything they want


as long as the libertarian authoritarians approve.

Indeed they are. Including not being forced to labor for events or goals they do not agree with, yes?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

There are at least two Supreme Court decisions, Hurley and Dale, that prove your assertions are false.
Actually they do not and you should know better. Even by your own admission, "Where the public accommodation is mainly commercial, a duty to serve is most likely to exist" and last I looked a pizza shop does fit that description.
Neither Hurley or Roberts were about commercial enterprises open to public.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Donations are now closed at a total of $842,387. This gave us a chance to compare conservatism in action as opposed to liberalism in action

Who knew you could get rich by being a terrible human being?

Oh wait, I guess I knew that one for a really long time already.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

there's no such thing as a libertarian authoritarian.... sorry.

That was just a little intellectually dishonest propaganda he was using since he couldn't formulate better arguments against my points. This topic is fundamentally imbedded in labor and property rights. I understand why people want to make this "fair", but to use the guns of government to force labor I think is perhaps too much. The proper way to regulate this system is through intelligent and informed consumerism.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Who knew you could get rich by being a terrible human being?

Oh wait, I guess I knew that one for a really long time already.

You should have, history is full of wealthy tyrants.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Bigot:
a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

:: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)


denying service based on sexuality might indeed be bigotry ( not inherently, but it probably is, nonetheless)... throwing the word "bigot" around.

unfortunately, bigots calling bigots bigots doesn't leave a lot of room for much moral or ethical high ground. <shrug>
tly
These bigots you speak of - the ones who are calling other bigots "bigots" - exactly what is their bigotry. What are they bigoted about?

I, for example, am extremely bigoted towards pedophiles. I hate them.

So exactly how are these bigots being bigots and how does their bigotry rate in relation to the bigotry that motivates the bigots who won't provide (some/any) goods and services to gay people?

I wasn't referring to you personally in that post.. but yes, you're a bigot too.... we all are at one time or another.

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere! Exactly how is Dovkan bigotednd how does his bigotry rate in relation to the bigotry that motivates the bigots who won't provide (some/any) goods and services to gay people?
 
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

The true winners in all this: The gays and lesbians in Indiana.

Because of the viscous Indiana law bigots passed last week -- and the abhorrence with which people reacted to it nationwide

now --

for the first time in Indiana history: codified into law now are protections based on sexual orientation!

Pizza pop and kid hit the RW cult lottery and won buckos, but their cause is lost.

Indiana gay and lesbian citizens won by a far wider margin and are the happy recipients of a much richer moral battle.

Bingo!!!

The wingnuts think *they* won something because some store owner raised a lot of money for their own use, but the important point is that the people of Indiana are now protected against the discriination of LGBT's as result of this idiots statements.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

The Constitution does indeed protect the exercise of religion while operating a business. Any law to the contrary is unconstitutional

Yes and no. Depends on the circumstances.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

So the owners were scam artist huh?

The American people pulled out their checkbooks and spoke loud and clear about who the victims of intolerance and bigotry were, so save the speech for your next Jon Lovitz impersonation.

For all your blather about how the public supports the bigoted pizza owners, the people who represent the citizens of Indiana just passed a law making it illegal for business owners to refuse service based on sexual orientation.

Even the Indiana GOP recogizes that the people of Indiana do not support the sort of discrimination you call "freedom" and have made it illegal.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

What if it rained Hershey Kisses and lollipops grew on trees?

The American people pulled out their checkbooks and spoke loud and clear about who the victims of intolerance and bigotry were... Let me give you a hint: I hear they also make a great calzone.

The Indiana legislature spoke even more loudly and clearer and passed a revision making it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual identity
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Yet enough of so called Christians have managed to get lawmakers to pass laws that would allow them, the so called Christians, to deny service to gays. Tough love eh?

Has anyone asked you to?

Have you been asked to officiate a gay wedding, be the best man, or hold a candle at the nuptials? So what is it exactly that you do not want to do?

And here you are doing the very thing you accuse gays of doing. Hypocrisy at its finest.
:lamo

Ask....

They literally **** themselves that we dont.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Actually they do not and you should know better. Even by your own admission, "Where the public accommodation is mainly commercial, a duty to serve is most likely to exist" and last I looked a pizza shop does fit that description.
Neither Hurley or Roberts were about commercial enterprises open to public.

matchlight has repatedly tried to confuse the issue by citing irrelevant cases involving entities that are expressive, and not purely commercial

He also misportrayed the facts concerning the chapel. The town never pursued any action against them because the chapel reorganized and stop offering secular marriages.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Actually they do not and you should know better. Even by your own admission, "Where the public accommodation is mainly commercial, a duty to serve is most likely to exist" and last I looked a pizza shop does fit that description.
Neither Hurley or Roberts were about commercial enterprises open to public.

Your assertion that no law forces businesses to serve anyone is nonsense. That is exactly what public accommodations laws do. The Hitching Post in Coeur d'Alene is an example of a commercial business a public accommodations law threatened to require its owners to open to same-sex weddings. That is the very thing you are claiming these laws do not do. Where a law like that compels a person to express or propound a view he disagrees with, it is likely to be unconstitutional as government-compelled speech. And the fact the business is primarily commercial will not make much difference, especially if the symbolic speech is expressive or artistic. A painter almost certainly could not be forced to paint a picture of a homosexual couple at their wedding, even though he makes his living by selling his paintings in a shop.

Justice Powell had this to say in his concurring opinion in Prune Yard Shopping Center:

"In my view, state action that transforms privately owned property into a forum for the expression of the public's views could raise serious First Amendment questions.

The State may not compel a person to affirm a belief he does not hold . . . A system which secures the right to proselytize religious, political, and ideological causes must also guarantee the concomitant right to decline to foster such concepts. This principle on its face protects a person who refuses to allow use of his property as a marketplace for the ideas of others. And I can find no reason to exclude the owner whose property is not limited to [his] personal use. A person who has merely invited the public onto his property for commercial purposes cannot fairly be said to have relinquished his right to decline to be an instrument for fostering public adherence to an ideological point of view he finds unacceptable." (my italics)
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

But I thought her answer to the hypothetical (which has already happened in practice all over) question was that she wouldn't serve gay people, no?
No. She said she was happy to serve Gay people but would nt serve at a Gay wedding ceremony. And that was only a hypothetical.

It seems leftists don't need facts or understanding to involve themselves in a baying mob, seeking out anyone who doesn't subscribe to their recently gained opinions
 
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