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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

that isn't how tolerance works or did you not know that:roll:
these people that spout tolerance don't even know the definition of tolerance.
they have distorted the definition into something else.



I like what Robert Green Ingersoll had to say about tolerance: "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

New York City has lots of pizzerias, I've never heard of any of them refusing to cater gay weddings. Does that surprise anyone?

He was basing his comments in that particular post that I responded to on the size of the town. I was giving him an analogy to show that he would be saying the exact same things that he's been saying in this thread to a pizzeria that was in a much larger environment.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I'm done tolerating bigots who use religion as a shield to justify their bigotry. Being gay doesn't even break one of the Ten Commandments, yet it's magically the #1 concern for business owners looking to refuse service.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

You're assuming that the kid would have a reason to be scared. Can you provide proof that even these people in the Pizzaria would harm or threaten that gay kid in that town?

It's a small midwest town and my own experiences with small midwest towns leaves me to believe that is the likelihood. Can you prove that's not the case? No, of course, since neither know anyone there much less a gay kid to ask

Although i'm sure you would dismiss it as cowardly paranoia anyway
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Coertion(sic)?? Listen, if you make **** pizza I'm not going to eat at your pizzeria. And I'm going to tell my friends your pizza is ****. They and I will eat elsewhere. That's not coercion. That's called capitalism.

Similarly, if your pizzeria hates the gays, I wont eat there. I'll tell my friends too, and they wont eat there. The market speaks: discrimination against homosexuals is not a good business decision.

I don't believe I mentioned discrimination against gays. I don't care whether the place serves gays or not. It's their problem, as is the quality of the pizza or anything else they might care to produce. I just mentioned that under threat of such a boycott, pizza served to those who initiate such actions might leave something to be desired. From what I've gathered here, this place doesn't do catering. Also, from the videos I've seen, it appears that their religious convictions are prominently portrayed in their restaurant. It looks and sounds like a set up to me, or do you actually believe that the quality of the pizza was the reason the owners were approached?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Freedom is definitely a one-way street these days.

Apparently, we all have the freedom to do whatever liberals say we can do.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

New York City has lots of pizzerias, I've never heard of any of them refusing to cater gay weddings. Does that surprise anyone?



You really think some of those old school gooombahs italian catholics are all pro-gay?


even today? o_O
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Freedom is definitely a one-way street these days.

Apparently, we all have the freedom to do whatever liberals say we can do.

Should businesses be able to refuse Christians?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Note: Had to reduce what is quoted due to exceeding character limit. I did try and respond to everything that you said though.

1) You are talking about harm to commerce......

Discrimination once did cause harm to commerce across the US. It no longer does. There are far too many businesses and people for that to happen anymore. Not to mention the change in society.

And zoning laws are not about protecting the environment

Yes it is. Or would you really want a coal power plant sitting right next to your house? How about a garbage dump that is privately ran? Or how about a steel factory? Bet you'd highly object to the harmful chemicals being spewed out right next to your house for health issues...and rightly so.


When it comes to the US you would be wrong where it concerns the federal government. When the Constitution was originally written the only power the Feds had was to basically be an arbiter between states when it came to interstate commerce. That changed when the Constitution started to be re-interpreted.

As far as the States goes, only so far as it concerns harm.

And I don't want to derail this into a discussion about MJ but allowing the sale of it does not inhibit commerce. It has the opposite effect.

That wasn't the point of what I said. The whole "no harm no foul" in regards to your stance on MJ had to do with your belief that the government should not be regulating it because it doesn't harm anyone. Is that stance only applicable to something that you are for?

Regulating consumers in such a way has never been considered a legitimate exercise of govt power in this country (nor in many others) which is why the constitution does not give the govt such a power.

Yet that is exactly what's happening by you wanting the government to enforce the affirmative action laws when it comes to forcing businesses to provide a service to someone that they do not want to.

I'm not sure that is true.

Which means that any business that could have been conducted as a result of that traveling (such as renting a hotel room) cannot be conducted. But hey, lets use another example. Same question only in place of CT input the businesses that threatened to pull out of Indiana. Or those businesses that pulled their ads from Rush Limbaugh show due to his perceived racism? I could use many many MANY more examples. It all ends the same.

My business is interstate, not intrastate, but my point is.......

Sorry, meant interstate in that one part.

As for your point. It doesn't apply to today's society anymore. There are far too many businesses and people in this country. You very easily could go/call the next autoshop on the next street corner which has a probability of helping you that outweighs them not helping you. It wouldn't even apply to a town that only has 200 people living in it. For the simple fact that your cell phone can call someone in the next town that is bigger and only, at most, a few hours away. For instance I once lived in a town that held 150 people. One autoshop, one restaurant, one gas station, one bar, one mom and pop grocery store. The next nearest towns was exactly the same distance away from it going in opposite directions. Those towns both had over 10-20 thousand people living in it. The drive to AND from those towns was 1 hour total (30 mins one way). The chances of you not finding someone that could help you were next to 0.

I personally believe that every business that is open to the public should be required to serve the entire public.

So....force servitude. No thanks. Some inconveniences are worth the Right to association. No matter what impact it may or may not have.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I like what Robert Green Ingersoll had to say about tolerance: "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."

personally opinions are just that personal opinions please see the 2 definitions I posted on what the real meaning of tolerance is.
it is not what he said. that is his personal opinion which is meaningless.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

well name one thing of value religion contributes in the 21st century

and i'm talking the bronze age book of fables known as the bible - what these small town yokels cling to - not pantheism, deism, jainism or hell, even nihilism might have more utility

Completely off topic but please - stop calling or labeling the bible a "bronze age book" as none of it was composed during that period (c. 3000 - 1200 BCE) and much of it was written down after the Iron Age (c. 1200 - 550 BCE)
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

It's a small midwest town and my own experiences with small midwest towns leaves me to believe that is the likelihood. Can you prove that's not the case? No, of course, since neither know anyone there much less a gay kid to ask

Although i'm sure you would dismiss it as cowardly paranoia anyway

I'm not the one claiming a positive circumstance. You are. If you can't back it up then all that you're doing is showing bigotry.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

An Indiana pizzeria remained closed on Wednesday, embroiled in a national debate after its owners said that they would not cater gay marriages due to their religious beliefs.

Read the article here: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I don't claim to be an expert on this, but how many gay weddings are followed up by pizza parties? :roll:

My guess is that these people are declining to serve people who would never be their customers.

They're using it to make money under the guise of being "oppressed". They raised $90,000 in 16 hrs to "relieve the financial loss endured by the proprietors’ stand for faith." Sorry, 96,500 now, it's gone up while I was writing this post.
Support Memories Pizza by Lawrence Billy Jones III - GoFundMe

And getting some rough numbers for profitability, the average pizza shop makes 7%. Even if we give them more than that, then they've just done the equivalent of about $1 million in sales or 75,000 pizzas. Basically, for a small time Pizza shop, this is YEARS of profits.
I Make a 20 Percent Profit Margin, and So Can You - Pizza Today
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

What tolerance are you suggesting?

Are you suggesting peopled should let others illegally discriminate, break the law and or violate the rights of others ?

what other things would you suggest this for?
not hiring or promoting women simply because they are women?
vandalism?
assault?
rape?
theft?

should people that believe in equal rights and civility tolerate those things too?
There was nothing illegal done or suggested by the pizza shop owners
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Completely off topic but please - stop calling or labeling the bible a "bronze age book" as none of it was composed during that period (c. 3000 - 1200 BCE) and much of it was written down after the Iron Age (c. 1200 - 550 BCE)

That is when theists like to believe it was written however..."moses" was thought to begin writing genesis around 1400 BC. Actual scholars believe it was begun at the very end or after iron age, but i use "bronze age" to throw it in their face, since that is what they believe
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Never said otherwise. But for the people involved, religion is a factor. Whether you want to admit it or not religion does have value. Maybe not to you. But it does to others.

if you want to focus only on the people involved, religion has done far more harm than good. Gay rights is only one clear example of that
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

If they want to yes.

I shouldn't have picked a safe majority. The majority is always safe. What about Jews? Muslims?

Say there's a small town with one or two convenience stores. Both have a no Jew or Muslim policy. Should the few Jews and Muslims in the town be forced to move in order to receive service?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

if you want to focus only on the people involved, religion has done far more harm than good. Gay rights is only one clear example of that

You're the one that asked about the value of religion...and you wanted only one example. I've provided that.

well name one thing of value religion contributes in the 21st century

and i'm talking the bronze age book of fables known as the bible - what these small town yokels cling to - not pantheism, deism, jainism or hell, even nihilism might have more utility

No moving the goal posts now. ;)
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Coertion(sic)?? Listen, if you make **** pizza I'm not going to eat at your pizzeria. And I'm going to tell my friends your pizza is ****. They and I will eat elsewhere. That's not coercion. That's called capitalism.

Similarly, if your pizzeria hates the gays, I wont eat there. I'll tell my friends too, and they wont eat there. The market speaks: discrimination against homosexuals is not a good business decision.

A correction to my previous post. The restaurant owner said they would not cater a gay wedding. Apparently there was no request to do such a thing - just a reporter asking if they would. So there was no discrimination because no action was taken.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Coertion(sic)?? Listen, if you make **** pizza I'm not going to eat at your pizzeria. And I'm going to tell my friends your pizza is ****. They and I will eat elsewhere. That's not coercion. That's called capitalism.

Similarly, if your pizzeria hates the gays, I wont eat there. I'll tell my friends too, and they wont eat there. The market speaks: discrimination against homosexuals is not a good business decision.
There you go. You admit you would criticize a pizza that you haven't tasted yourself. That is what we're seeing today in the effort to harm people who hold a perspective that goes against the homosexual agenda. Odd isn't it. The pizza owner would make no effort to prevent two homosexuals from getting married, but would not participate in the event. The response in that town is to try to harm the owner and shut his business down? Who are the real bigots?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Those two polls are about the same exact subject. We're discussing a completely different subject here. As I said, I support SSM. I have proved that over the years. But I also support the right of a business to discriminate due to their right to association. IE: Right to Marriage and Right to freedom of association. Two different subjects. Neither of which you will find a poll comparing the two to each other.

Um...my point was that statistically, if they oppose SSM, they are likely to oppose gay rights across the board. Sodomy laws and SSM are not the same subject. Sending the gestapo to barge into bedrooms and make arrests for consensual sex is not at all the same level of intolerance as opposing marriage rights.

The reason most oppose both or neither is most either hate homosexuals or have no problem with it. Guess which the pizza owners fall into?
 
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