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Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

joG said:
You sound full of hatred. But if you think that protecting the rights guaranteed by the Constitution amounts to "backward, stupid laws" I guess you have a point. On the other hand, it seems as bigoted as the people that suppressed the gays in the old days.
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Ah in the 'old days' huh? So the gays are not suppressed anymore, especially by conservatives? This whole problem NOW is the gays themselves? And the media? The courts? Clinton? And of course Obama, everything is his fault. Everyone is to blame but the Republicans and conservatives. Right?

Sad thing is I really think you believe that.
 
JANFU said:
Apple CEO as well.
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I'm just talking about Arkansas, when their biggest employer Walmart is pressuring the Hutchinson NOT to sign the bill.

When any states biggest employer speaks, the governor will take note.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I'm just talking about Arkansas, when their biggest employer Walmart is pressuring the Hutchinson NOT to sign the bill.

When any states biggest employer speaks, the governor will take note.
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I realize that.
 
cpwill said:
:doh Dumb. Politically understandable, given the insane people screaming right now, but dumb. If you bow down to idiots, you only encourage them.
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Yeah ... representative democracy is so dumb.

SenorXm/Sirius said:
When any states biggest employer speaks, the governor will take note.
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Good on Wal-Mart for opposing this disaster.
 
joG said:
Oh, but they obviously do want bigotry and suppression of religious rights to free expression. Thing is, that it is not the conservative right that is now suppressing people anymore. It is now the gay crowd that is acting anti constitutional with the courts supporting them like they did some time ago the conservatives. Quite interesting really, the way things have swung around.
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Sheesh, people used to cite religion as the basis for discrimination against blacks (and before that as Biblical justification for slavery). The courts didn't care why someone (said they) didn't like blacks, but they outlawed most discrimination against them. There is no substantive change here, except the protections that have LONG been extended to race and religion etc. have been extended in some cases to LGBT.
 
Nice to see that religious folks don't let money stand in the way of righteousness and their religious principals. Oh wait. :lamo
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I know you didn't. But I can see the point I was making went right over your head.

These governors are backing down because the Corps. are beating them up over these backwards, stupid laws. Of course all this backlash would have never happened in Indy and Arkansas if they had learned from what happened in Arizona last year. But they didn't learn, their ideology and hatred it got in the way, so now they are paying the price.
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Yeah that's a good point, they're acting like they didn't have the perfect test case before them. They rolled the dice, hoping the bigot voters in their states and in the repub primary would pull them thru, unlike arizona. What blows my mind is when you look at the political capital risk...it just doesn't make sense. These states and their politicians now look like worthless devils to the left and center, and impotent to the right.

Their "values" are as we speak being hijacked by their greed and political aspirations. That is because they have no values, or beliefs. These rural dwellers always get fooled into voting against their own interests, hoping republicans will save them from the mythical gay agenda, if not abortion and the 'darkies,' but hey guess what, repubs can't even manage that anymore!

Just makes me wonder what group they'll target next to convince the poor meth addicts in hicksville to vote repub
 
Top Cat said:
Nice to see that religious folks don't let money stand in the way of righteousness and their religious principals. Oh wait. :lamo
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I hear the church down the street is selling indulgences half off this week
 
JasperL said:
Sheesh, people used to cite religion as the basis for discrimination against blacks (and before that as Biblical justification for slavery). The courts didn't care why someone (said they) didn't like blacks, but they outlawed most discrimination against them. There is no substantive change here, except the protections that have LONG been extended to race and religion etc. have been extended in some cases to LGBT.
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If we let the theocrats get their way all along, women still wouldn't be able to vote and even mentioning interracial marriage would get 100 lashes.

You know in some convoluted way i'm glad indiana is doing this. Too many were unaware that for instance there is no employment or housing protection for LGBT. Gay marriage gets all the attention, but it's far from the only issue
 
Just makes me wonder what group they'll target next to convince the poor meth addicts in hicksville to vote repub
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They'll come up with another bogeyman to keep the Republican base mad, scared and voting GOP. And yep they'll keep voting against their interest too.
 
What boggles my mind is that all these religions, Christian, Jew, Muslim whatever need to do is have a coming to Jesus moment. (See what I did there) If they all came together to organize a internet and bulling campaign on their own, these little gaystoppo nimrods wouldn't have a foot to stand on, and the complicit MSM pushing all this along would be frightened little girly girls, just like all these states and corporations threatening boycotts, would run like the wind pushing each other out of the way to get back to the right side of things..

So comical, watching all this play out right now that a very small minority is causing so much stir. All it would take is someone to lead the religious into the light, and begin fighting back, and all you little giddy progressives would cower. Thing is, the ACLU and the IRS have it so churches and synagogues cannot bring it up in service as to not lose their tax exempt status.. LOL How freaking funny is that? They're not even allowed (Because religion is protected by the first amendment ya know) to talk about it in their own church and fight back... :)

Seems like the progressives have it all figured out regarding religion in this country. They've made it so their targets have no speech to fight back with.. What a great country, eh? Well, I should say Christians as their main target because they're easy to pick on, Jews not so much, and Muslims.. Hehehe, well we all know how brave and principled progressive really are when the chips fall.. ;)

Tim-
 
Hicup said:
What boggles my mind is that all these religions, Christian, Jew, Muslim whatever need to do is have a coming to Jesus moment. (See what I did there) If they all came together to organize a internet and bulling campaign on their own, these little gaystoppo nimrods wouldn't have a foot to stand on, and the complicit MSM pushing all this along would be frightened little girly girls, just like all these states and corporations threatening boycotts, would run like the wind pushing each other out of the way to get back to the right side of things..

So comical, watching all this play out right now that a very small minority is causing so much stir. All it would take is someone to lead the religious into the light, and begin fighting back, and all you little giddy progressives would cower. Thing is, the ACLU and the IRS have it so churches and synagogues cannot bring it up in service as to not lose their tax exempt status.. LOL How freaking funny is that? They're not even allowed (Because religion is protected by the first amendment ya know) to talk about it in their own church and fight back... :)

Seems like the progressives have it all figured out regarding religion in this country. They've made it so their targets have no speech to fight back with.. What a great country, eh? Well, I should say Christians as their main target because they're easy to pick on, Jews not so much, and Muslims.. Hehehe, well we all know how brave and principled progressive really are when the chips fall.. ;)

Tim-
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Have you not read any opinion poll in the past, say, five years? The "gaystoppo nimrods" are on the same side as a clear majority of the public. Corporations have been paying attention, which is probably why "even Walmart" came out against the RFRA in Arkansas. That's good for business.

And you're a little misinformed about what a church can and can't do with regard to lobbying. For example, churches follow the same rules as other tax exempt orgs. Here's a nice primer. Here's one that covers churches.

Short version is churches and the ACLU can "educate" their flock about the issues but can't say, "Vote for Ted." And if they want to engage in a "Vote for Ted" campaign, they can of course. They just have to use assets other than those of the non-profit, so they can and do form 501(c)(4) orgs and take NON-deductible donations to that organization to fund "Vote for Ted" efforts. It's a common sense way to prevent laundering non-deductible campaign contributions through a 501(c)(3) organization and allowing the donor to then deduct those expenses. No one's voice is silenced. A church or environmental org just can't use funds designated for charity in the political arena.

But the "woe is me, I'm a victim" stuff is touching. :boohoo:
 
prometeus said:
Exactly, that is how this and other laws like this came about. Lawmakers bowing...
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Well, yeah. In particular, they were bowing to public backlash against a Supreme Court case that found that Native Americans didn't have the right to pursue their religious ceremonies that involved peyote. Lawmakers such as Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Bill Clinton, and the like.
 
cpwill said:
Well, yeah. In particular, they were bowing to public backlash against a Supreme Court case that found that Native Americans didn't have the right to pursue their religious ceremonies that involved peyote. Lawmakers such as Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Bill Clinton, and the like.
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Well it does take a special level of ignorance, stupidity, dishonesty or any combination of them to replace facts and reality with a conservative agenda.
 
disneydude said:
You guys are just upset because the American people stood up to the right-wing agenda and said "Not in our country".
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Yeah. That must be why Republicans have such a majority of Governerships, State Legislatures, and the largest majority in the Federal Congress that they've had since before the New Deal.
 
brothern said:
Yeah ... representative democracy is so dumb.
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:shrug: The Representatives of the People are the ones who wrote and then passed this bill. It's the screaming loonies who are pulling their dresses over their heads whom the governor is bowing to.
 
cpwill said:
Yeah. That must be why Republicans have such a majority of Governerships, State Legislatures, and the largest majority in the Federal Congress that they've had since before the New Deal.
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What are you talking about? Completely unrelated to what I was talking about. Not all Republicans are right-wingers or cowtow to their agenda. In fact, I would say the majority aren't. I don't think most Republicans would try to pass this kind of BS legislation. Its an interesting time for the GOP right now. You have a strong group of moderate GOP contingent that is battling with the right-wingers over control of the party. They see the damage that the right-wing has done and they know full well that if the GOP is ever going to see the whitehouse again in the near future...they are going to have to ditch the right-wing rhetoric....but lets get back to the topic at hand.
 
Hicup said:
What boggles my mind is that all these religions, Christian, Jew, Muslim whatever need to do is have a coming to Jesus moment. (See what I did there) If they all came together to organize a internet and bulling campaign on their own, these little gaystoppo nimrods wouldn't have a foot to stand on, and the complicit MSM pushing all this along would be frightened little girly girls, just like all these states and corporations threatening boycotts, would run like the wind pushing each other out of the way to get back to the right side of things..

So comical, watching all this play out right now that a very small minority is causing so much stir. All it would take is someone to lead the religious into the light, and begin fighting back, and all you little giddy progressives would cower. Thing is, the ACLU and the IRS have it so churches and synagogues cannot bring it up in service as to not lose their tax exempt status.. LOL How freaking funny is that? They're not even allowed (Because religion is protected by the first amendment ya know) to talk about it in their own church and fight back... :)

Seems like the progressives have it all figured out regarding religion in this country. They've made it so their targets have no speech to fight back with.. What a great country, eh? Well, I should say Christians as their main target because they're easy to pick on, Jews not so much, and Muslims.. Hehehe, well we all know how brave and principled progressive really are when the chips fall.. ;)

Tim-
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What boggles my mind is how many people vastly overestimate the number of people who agree with their demands for legalized discrimination.
 
Hicup said:
What boggles my mind is that all these religions, Christian, Jew, Muslim whatever need to do is have a coming to Jesus moment. (See what I did there) If they all came together to organize a internet and bulling campaign on their own, these little gaystoppo nimrods wouldn't have a foot to stand on, and the complicit MSM pushing all this along would be frightened little girly girls, just like all these states and corporations threatening boycotts, would run like the wind pushing each other out of the way to get back to the right side of things..

So comical, watching all this play out right now that a very small minority is causing so much stir. All it would take is someone to lead the religious into the light, and begin fighting back, and all you little giddy progressives would cower. Thing is, the ACLU and the IRS have it so churches and synagogues cannot bring it up in service as to not lose their tax exempt status.. LOL How freaking funny is that? They're not even allowed (Because religion is protected by the first amendment ya know) to talk about it in their own church and fight back... :)

Seems like the progressives have it all figured out regarding religion in this country. They've made it so their targets have no speech to fight back with.. What a great country, eh? Well, I should say Christians as their main target because they're easy to pick on, Jews not so much, and Muslims.. Hehehe, well we all know how brave and principled progressive really are when the chips fall.. ;)

Tim-
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No not a small minority - of the 20 States that have it most are mirrored on the federal law. Next -Not all Christians are against SSM. yet you seem to believe so.
Now 2 more will do the same.

A small minority- Nope- a substantial that believe in human rights.
Churches are protected - stating they cannot bring up that they are against SSM is ludicrous.
 
cpwill said:
:doh Dumb. Politically understandable, given the insane people screaming right now, but dumb. If you bow down to idiots, you only encourage them.
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I wouldn't go so far as to call the social conservatives "idiots"...
 
upsideguy said:
I wouldn't go so far as to call the social conservatives "idiots"...
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That's interesting - I was unaware that it was social conservatives running around with their hair on fire about how a law to apply the strict scrutiny standard to cases involving religious expression was going to result in some kind of wave of Jim Crow laws, and demanding on CNN that people completely unassociated with either the state in question or politics at all denounce the heresy of Unapproved Thought.
 
cpwill said:
I was unaware that it was social conservatives
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who wrote the law in Arkansas that initially started this?
That the Arkansas governor said he would sign the law last Friday until WAL-MART and the rest of corporate Arkansas asked him not to sign it?

On behalf of all DEMs, I'd like to thank your team for this 'Akin/Mourdock' type of unforced error.
We all know how that went in 2012 .
 
disneydude said:
No they don't. No one is telling anyone what they can practice in their church or in their homes. People have the right to free religious expression and always will....there is nothing threatening that. What they don't have a right to do is to use that religion as a shield and proclaim that it allows them to discriminate.
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What you are saying is that you do not go with free expression of opinions or free religious practice. That is really quite sad.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Ah in the 'old days' huh? So the gays are not suppressed anymore, especially by conservatives? This whole problem NOW is the gays themselves? And the media? The courts? Clinton? And of course Obama, everything is his fault. Everyone is to blame but the Republicans and conservatives. Right?

Sad thing is I really think you believe that.
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What I do think is that you want to change the meaning of the Constitution without doing it by Amendment. I know that is something that is much easier at first. But the more the process robs people of the rights they had, the more bigoted the transformers become as they are in this case, the worse will become the conflict and very possibly the backlash or other damage. In this case the damage will probably be severe, as the rights being terminated are fundamental to the social fabric and culture. I have been watching this type of legal creep either first hand or at arm's length for years in different societies around the world and have selectively looked at such processes in history. And all I would like to point out here is that the purveyors of the movement usually sounded just like you. People like Lenin were more intellectual and the Röhms were more robust and the Europhiles smoother. But with all said and done the results have been awful in many cases.
 
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