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US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

Of course I do. Do you know what ANY RECIPIENT means? What about ASSIST?

It doesn't appear like you do. Where is it stated that the United States had helped Israel gain nuclear weapons?
 
Yeah, and thanks to Israel's bull**** and hush-hush nature, we'd be bluffing our way through any sanctions too. Again Travis, you've ignored that Israel's deliberate ambiguity (that's their actual policy, not flowery language) while pushing for everyone else to abide with standards it doesn't follow on nuclear power is the problem.

I am shocked, but also super happy to see a libertarian perspective in these arguments coming from you.

one correction though:

pushing for everyone else to abide with standards it doesn't follow on nuclear power is a problem, not the problem
 
The Mossad said nothing in the SA "leak" (which wasn't a leak at all since the document was public) which could be understood as "Iran is after nuclear energy, not nuclear weapons" so not only are you wrong you are also misleading. To believe that Iran is not after nuclear weapons when it keeps nuclear facilities secret from the international community and was willing to risk sanctions for the purpose of gaining an alternative to the oil it has plenty of is not merely delusional, it's insane.
You were already notified that
you don't need to be signed on an agreement to demand that someone who is signed on it will be held to its restrictions.



Play it however you'd like to Iran calls for Israel's destruction and acts against its soldiers, civilians and interests through the use of proxy terror organizations, not the other way around. Your claims that Israel wants to gain something from the Iranian issue other than not having a nuclear Iran, saying that it's only objecting to a nuclear Iran so it can "do whatever it wants" (what that might be I have no damned idea) are simply delusional.
this makes no sense
israel has the opportunity to execute the NPT, but has chosen not to be a NPT member
and thus relinquishes any ability to decide if/how the NPT will be enforced

it's as if you think nonmembers get to decide the rules of a country club to which you do not belong
 
this makes no sense
israel has the opportunity to execute the NPT, but has chosen not to be a NPT member
and thus relinquishes any ability to decide if/how the NPT will be enforced

it's as if you think nonmembers get to decide the rules of a country club to which you do not belong

Only that unfortunately it's not a country club.
I am not affected by the laws of Spain, but I do think people in Spain need to adhere to their laws.

Regardless Israel has every right to demand nations that have signed international agreements to be upheld to those agreements.
 
An article that contradicts the claims being made in the guardian's article, yes, and I've also contradicted the claims myself

Only it doesn't and the claims are in fact contradicted. If your claim is that Iran is in fact seeking weapons and then your intelligence saying it's not doing anything to get them is a contradiction.

Do read it, your avoidance from learning facts is the main reason for your delusional conclusions.

And if it isn't performing the activities necessary to produce a nuclear weapon yet, does it suddenly mean that it's not working towards getting there? Obviously not.

Sorry, you can't say that it's working towards something while not working towards something. That's absurd.

Now that's the dumbest remark so far. You can build the actual nuclear weapon, once you have the required amount of enriched materials, within far less than a year.

Ummm nobody said otherwise. The picture Netanyahu is painting is that Iran is working on the bomb. Against evidence from Mossad that's it's not taking any activities do get that done.

And where is it stated that the US had helped Israel gain nuclear weapons? And you do realize that France had only signed the NPT in 1992, so you can't really violate a treaty you weren't even signed on at the time, right? Because it doesn't look so.

That's a pretty sneaky way to run away from the fact that the treaty also dealt with recognized nuclear powers (of which France, Britain and the US were one of). Not just countries who signed it. The best is how you ignored Britain. I guess it didn't fit your argument? :)

What does it have to do with me, exactly?
Did I make note of the fact that you promote a nuclear Iran, or did I discuss your (delusional) remarks such as the hilarious remark that Iran is after nuclear energy for "peaceful reasons"?

Well, you went on about you found disgusting, and I gave you my thoughts on what you find disgusting. I'll take them with a grain of salt. :shrug:
 
Only that unfortunately it's not a country club.
I am not affected by the laws of Spain, but I do think people in Spain need to adhere to their laws.
you can think whatever you want
but the reality is you have no basis to include yourself in the manner in which spain's laws are followed
just like israel relative to enforcement of the provisions of the NPT

Regardless Israel has every right to demand nations that have signed international agreements to be upheld to those agreements.
wrong once more
israel has zero rights relative to the enforcement of the NPT
it is not a party to the contract/agreement/treaty
it has NO standing and thus has NO say about the NPT
like all of us, it can have an opinion ... but nothing more
sucks. doesn't it
maybe y'all should have decided to sign the NPT
but until you do, israel needs to shut the **** up about anything to do with enforcing the terms of the treaty
as someone earlier noted, israel has as much entitlement to participate in the matters of the NPT as it does to NAFTA
 
Only it doesn't and the claims are in fact contradicted. If your claim is that Iran is in fact seeking weapons and then your intelligence saying it's not doing anything to get them is a contradiction.

Sorry, you can't say that it's working towards something while not working towards something. That's absurd.

There are two phases; A) Gathering materials B) Creating the actual weapon
Mossad saying that phase B has not begun yet is in full accordance with the previous statements of the Israeli government that the Iranian regime has yet to have made it to the phase of bomb-creation.
It is so obvious that no one even felt the need to respond to the laughable assertion that Israel had just claimed in a public report to SA that Iran is not after nuclear weapons at all.

Ummm nobody said otherwise. The picture Netanyahu is painting is that Iran is working on the bomb. Against evidence from Mossad that's it's not taking any activities do get that done.

No, Netanyahu is painting a picture that Iran is working towards the bomb, that means it's in phase A and it's still enriching.
The moment it has enough material it can easily break within a short time towards the bomb itself, and that's what Israel as well as half the planet are looking to avoid.

That's a pretty sneaky way to run away from the fact that the treaty also dealt with recognized nuclear powers (of which France, Britain and the US were one of). Not just countries who signed it. The best is how you ignored Britain. I guess it didn't fit your argument?

I didn't apply to the fact that Israel is not a signatory of the NPT but to the fact that France wasn't, at the time it allegedly helped Israel, so that's some reading comprehension problems there, and I do recall asking for reference to where is it stated that the US had aided Israel in gaining nuclear weapons. I will also add a request for reference to a French or British aid made in that report.

Well, you went on about you found disgusting, and I gave you my thoughts on what you find disgusting. I'll take them with a grain of salt.

You can take them with a grain of enriched uranium for all I care.
 
you can think whatever you want
but the reality is you have no basis to include yourself in the manner in which spain's laws are followed
just like israel relative to enforcement of the provisions of the NPT

The discussion was whether it was hypocritical or not to ask nations to be held to agreements they have signed.
You have clearly gotten it wrong.

wrong once more
israel has zero rights relative to the enforcement of the NPT
it is not a party to the contract/agreement/treaty
it has NO standing and thus has NO say about the NPT
like all of us, it can have an opinion ... but nothing more
sucks. doesn't it
maybe y'all should have decided to sign the NPT
but until you do, israel needs to shut the **** up about anything to do with enforcing the terms of the treaty
as someone earlier noted, israel has as much entitlement to participate in the matters of the NPT as it does to NAFTA

You don't need to be signed on an international agreement to be calling for the world to uphold another nation to that agreement.
It isn't Israel that is upholding nations to the NPT.
You're being absurd and you're not making sense, if you ever believed that you do.
 
There are two phases; A) Gathering materials B) Creating the actual weapon
Mossad saying that phase B has not begun yet is in full accordance with the previous statements of the Israeli government that the Iranian regime has yet to have made it to the phase of bomb-creation.

That's not what Mossad said. It said it wasn't performing the activities required for it.

No, Netanyahu is painting a picture that Iran is working towards the bomb, that means it's in phase A and it's still enriching.

...

The moment it has enough material it can easily break within a short time towards the bomb itself, and that's what Israel as well as half the planet are looking to avoid.

More delusions about being blown out of the sky.

I didn't apply to the fact that Israel is not a signatory of the NPT but to the fact that France wasn't, at the time it allegedly helped Israel, so that's some reading comprehension problems there, and I do recall asking for reference to where is it stated that the US had aided Israel in gaining nuclear weapons. I will also add a request for reference to a French or British aid made in that report.

France was one of the recognized powers of the NPT. Good grief, the fact that the US has kept its secret for so long while Israel gathers the weapons is the proof. It's like you being fully that your neighbor killed someone, and keeping their secret because you're good friends. Are you f'n serious?

You can take them with a grain of enriched uranium for all I care.

I'm sure you believe that you'll do that long before anybody in the US :) .
 
There is nothing to suggest we declassified any information about Israel's nuclear program other than they have it and we knew they had it. Which is what everyone knew anyway and the fact we did not ever admit it only made us look like hypocrites. Israel over the years has been given over 120 Billion dollars in foreign aid from the United States. That is over $15,000 for every individual in the country paid for by U.S. taxpayers and in return their government insults our president, undermines negotiations and spies on us. Moreover, we hardly get anything for it. It is not like they sit on a bunch of oil or anything. Look, we own them, if they don't like that, then get off the U.S. taxpayers dime. Personally I don't take money as a handout from anyone because I don't want anyone owning me, but if I did, I sure as hell would not insult them later. I just think the country's government obviously needs to be put in its place a little bit, and I see no problem with doing it.

I can't really disagree beyond the fact that my understanding was that the declassified documents contained a great deal of what was once Top Secret information on Israel's complete nuclear program. Other than that, I pretty much agree with you that they take our money then spy on us and stab us in the back when convenient. That hasn't always been the case, but it is the case with the Israeli government under Netanyahu and probably a few others along the way.

We just should not have done this, if for no other reason than the message it sends to the rest of our allies: We'll keep your secrets... if we feel like it and you make nice with us.
 
I can't really disagree beyond the fact that my understanding was that the declassified documents contained a great deal of what was once Top Secret information on Israel's complete nuclear program. Other than that, I pretty much agree with you that they take our money then spy on us and stab us in the back when convenient. That hasn't always been the case, but it is the case with the Israeli government under Netanyahu and probably a few others along the way.

We just should not have done this, if for no other reason than the message it sends to the rest of our allies: We'll keep your secrets... if we feel like it and you make nice with us.

In your personal life, do you keep secrets for people who backstab you when it's convenient? I sure as **** don't. To hell with all these fair weather friends. We should have gotten rid of Pakistan in the 00s and we should be dumping Israel today.
 
In your personal life, do you keep secrets for people who backstab you when it's convenient? I sure as **** don't. To hell with all these fair weather friends. We should have gotten rid of Pakistan in the 00s and we should be dumping Israel today.

You could be right. However, it really is in the US's best interest to keep Israel as an ally in the region, and I feel strongly that if this is how the world sees us dump our allies, we won't have any at all because we've proven to be fickle and untrustworthy. :shrug:
 
Oh for ****s sake, it's the first ****ing article of the NPT:

NPT Treaty

You either didn't read what I wrote or you ignored it. Lets try rephrasing.

Do you think that it is possible for the parties in a treaty that are allowed to make changes, even temp changes, to vote to suspend parts or even all of a treaty?
 
I can't really disagree beyond the fact that my understanding was that the declassified documents contained a great deal of what was once Top Secret information on Israel's complete nuclear program. Other than that, I pretty much agree with you that they take our money then spy on us and stab us in the back when convenient. That hasn't always been the case, but it is the case with the Israeli government under Netanyahu and probably a few others along the way.

We just should not have done this, if for no other reason than the message it sends to the rest of our allies: We'll keep your secrets... if we feel like it and you make nice with us.

I think the actual message it sends is that if you want to **** with us, well, we can **** with you right back. I also think that is a message that should be sent. If foreign powers want to mess with partisan politics in the US, they can expect to get burned. Don't want to get burned, don't get involved in partisan US politics.
 
That's not what Mossad said. It said it wasn't performing the activities required for it.

It is what it said, it said it isn't performing the activities required for nuclear weapons referring to the second phase. The first phase is where Iran currently is, and that is enriching materials that could be used for general purposes such as a civilian energy program. If Iran was in the second phase and there was evidence backing it we'd already be in a war right now.
You seriously believe Mossad would contradict itself in a public report to SA regarding Iran's willingness to achieve nuclear weapons, it's absurd.

France was one of the recognized powers of the NPT. Good grief, the fact that the US has kept its secret for so long while Israel gathers the weapons is the proof. It's like you being fully that your neighbor killed someone, and keeping their secret because you're good friends. Are you f'n serious?

It's the third time you've refused to supply reference to an American, French or British aid to the Israeli nuclear program from the report. That the US kept silence over an Israeli nuclear program is not a violation of the NPT treaty and you are, as usual it seems, not making any sense. You have nothing, not on Israel being hypocritical and not on America aiding Israel. What a waste of bandwidth.
 
I think the actual message it sends is that if you want to **** with us, well, we can **** with you right back. I also think that is a message that should be sent. If foreign powers want to mess with partisan politics in the US, they can expect to get burned. Don't want to get burned, don't get involved in partisan US politics.

I honestly hope that is exactly the message the world received. I really hope that I'm wrong.
 
You could be right. However, it really is in the US's best interest to keep Israel as an ally in the region, and I feel strongly that if this is how the world sees us dump our allies, we won't have any at all because we've proven to be fickle and untrustworthy. :shrug:

Do you really think Israel will turn it's back on the US? Of course not, they cannot afford to.
 
Do you really think Israel will turn it's back on the US? Of course not, they cannot afford to.

Oh, I don't care if Israel turns its back on us; they need us more than we need them. I just concerned about what the rest of our allies will read into what was done. I hope you are right and I am wrong.
 
In your personal life, do you keep secrets for people who backstab you when it's convenient? I sure as **** don't. To hell with all these fair weather friends. We should have gotten rid of Pakistan in the 00s and we should be dumping Israel today.

How exactly did Israel backstab us btw?
 
Do you really think Israel will turn it's back on the US? Of course not, they cannot afford to.

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong in 2017 relations will be fully restored between Israel and the US, so I don't see any change on Israel's side.
As I said in another thread the Israeli-American relations are based on the sole fact that these are two states that share both their values and their geopolitical interests, and as such it's impossible for them to be in bad relations. What we're seeing is merely a personal fight between Obama and Netanyahu that Obama had long been taking out on the state of Israel itself and probably would only escalate it after the Israelis have reelected Netanyahu despite his meddling in the Israeli elections, up until his term comes to an end.
 
In your personal life, do you keep secrets for people who backstab you when it's convenient? I sure as **** don't. To hell with all these fair weather friends. We should have gotten rid of Pakistan in the 00s and we should be dumping Israel today.

Youre, like Obama are making this personal.

Throwing tantruns that compromise the security of a decades old ally because your'e pissed at one man is a new low for this administration.

Obama would risk the security of a entire Country to carry out his vindictives and according to his supporters this qualifies as a credible Foreign Policy manuver.

Is it too much to expect our President to rise above petty disagreements and instead do what's right to create a more secure and stable ME ?

Yup, apparently it is.
 
You could be right. However, it really is in the US's best interest to keep Israel as an ally in the region, and I feel strongly that if this is how the world sees us dump our allies, we won't have any at all because we've proven to be fickle and untrustworthy. :shrug:

Preeeetty much. Our credibility as a partner nation has taken quite a beating lately :-(
 
I think the actual message it sends is that if you want to **** with us, well, we can **** with you right back. I also think that is a message that should be sent. If foreign powers want to mess with partisan politics in the US, they can expect to get burned. Don't want to get burned, don't get involved in partisan US politics.

Which is really ironic considering that we do it all the time. :shrug:
 
I think the actual message it sends is that if you want to **** with us, well, we can **** with you right back. I also think that is a message that should be sent. If foreign powers want to mess with partisan politics in the US, they can expect to get burned. Don't want to get burned, don't get involved in partisan US politics.


How did Israel " ****" with us exactly ?

By carrying out Democratic elections ?
 
Which is really ironic considering that we do it all the time. :shrug:

It is nice to be the biggest kid on the block. Should we make ourselves smaller simply to be fair? Or should we not stand up for our own interests?
 
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