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US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

Fenton said:
Give me one good reason for doing this.
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Doing what? Applying the same standard to everyone in the region? Well, gee, I don't know, having some political leverage would be good when we're justifying invasions based on clandestine nuclear weapons programs that turned out to be flops at best. That's just for starters.

Common ****ing political sense would be another. Do you know what this document proves? It proves that we've been BLUFFING our way into justify sanctions for 28 years. We could have proposed that Israel abide by the same rules it proposes everyone else have. However, we spent 28 years playing hide the ****ing rainbow with Israel's nuclear vagina and now we're CONFIRMED hypocrites. Do you think it makes a difference whether Obama released this or not? It absolutely doesn't. If you think it does, either you don't understand the implications of pretending like Israel doesn't have nuclear weapons or you don't understand the implications of having everyone abide by rules that Israel doesn't have to abide by.

The fact that you won't show how a single difference between how this came out and other measures says it all. You think if it had come out 3 years from now it would have made a difference? You either don't understand how adults work or you don't understand how politics work. Which is it? If this had come out 10 years ago, it wouldn't have made an ounce of a difference. The fact that we kept it secret for so long while imposing sanctions on countries right and left, THAT is the problem here. Your absurd poor-****ing-Israel narrative doesn't change that. Israel ****ed itself over when it decided to keep this matter secret in the age of leaks, hacking and globalism.

And of-course I blame Obama. He's the President and this happened under his administration.

He made the decision to disclose decades old secrets and his decision wasn't based on anything other than spite.

He's supposed to be a Leader, but this latest decision just shows how superficial and petty of a individual he is.

It should embrace the hell out of any American and especially his supporters.
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I had to address just how stupid this is. Yes, it happened under Obama, so the **** what? If it had been a leak under the next president do you think it would have put us in a better light after telling people for DECADES that they can't have nuclear power because we say so while Israel cheers on our shoulder? Get a ****ing clue.
 
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Tit for tat seems to be okay as long as there is just tit from the GOP Benedict Boehners and their GOP President Bibi.

Obama proved after this election that 6 years was enough, with the XO on immigration reform.

This isn't going to get one iota better--he's been ****ed over long enough by the GOP saboteurs and he's showing he won't take it any longer.

Besides, EVERYONE knew the Israelis had nukes--this was already an old story.

I'm far more concerned with the far-wrong GOP/far-wrong Israelis sabotaging any peace agreement and arms talks.
And we all know it's about the GOP siphoning Jewish-American votes from a solid DEM voter group--it's just who they are .
 
NIMBY said:
Tit for tat seems to be okay as long as there is just tit from the GOP Benedict Boehners and their GOP President Bibi.

Obama proved after this election that 6 years was enough, with the XO on immigration reform.

This isn't going to get one iota better--he's been ****ed over long enough by the GOP saboteurs and he's showing he won't take it any longer.

Besides, EVERYONE knew the Israelis had nukes--this was already an old story.

I'm far more concerned with the far-wrong GOP/far-wrong Israelis sabotaging any peace agreement and arms talks.
And we all know it's about the GOP siphoning Jewish-American votes from a solid DEM voter group--it's just who they are .
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This isn't about Obama. This is actually a bipartisan issue. Hell, if tit for was the problem, I wouldn't be making an effort to respond to Fenton's whining about poor Israel. This is about the fact that this document is irrefutable evidence that we've been bluffing for 20+ years. We literally had NO LEGS to stand on when it came to telling other countries what to do or we'd bring sanctions against them at the UN. That we took this ****ing risk for 28 years should be enough to bring cases against EVERY ****ing president INCLUDING Obama. How could the US government have been so ****ing stupid for 30 years?
 
Hatuey said:
Doing what? Applying the same standard to everyone in the region? Well, gee, I don't know, having some political leverage would be good when we're justifying invasions based on clandestine nuclear weapons programs that turned out to be flops at best. That's just for starters.

Common ****ing political sense would be another. Do you know what this document proves? It proves that we've been BLUFFING our way into justify sanctions for 28 years. We could have proposed that Israel abide by the same rules it proposes everyone else have. However, we spent 28 years playing hide the ****ing rainbow with Israel's nuclear vagina and now we're CONFIRMED hypocrites. Do you think it makes a difference whether Obama released this or not? It absolutely doesn't. If you think it does, either you don't understand the implications of pretending like Israel doesn't have nuclear weapons or you don't understand the implications of having everyone abide by rules that Israel doesn't have to abide by.

The fact that you won't show how a single difference between how this came out and other measures says it all. You think if it had come out 3 years from now it would have made a difference? You either don't understand how adults work or you don't understand how politics work. Which is it? If this had come out 10 years ago, it wouldn't have made an ounce of a difference. The fact that we kept it secret for so long while imposing sanctions on countries right and left, THAT is the problem here. Your absurd poor-****ing-Israel narrative doesn't change that. Israel ****ed itself over when it decided to keep this matter secret in the age of leaks, hacking and globalism.



I had to address just how stupid this is. Yes, it happened under Obama, so the **** what? If it had been a leak under the next president do you think it would have put us in a better light after telling people for DECADES that they can't have nuclear power because we say so while Israel cheers on our shoulder? Get a ****ing clue.
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So I don't understand how " people or politics " work and you want me to pretend this happened 10 years ago ?

But it didn't happen ten years ago.

Wow.

And Obama did this for " leverage " ? Hows that work ?

You disclose the State secrets of your ally and that gives you " leverage " ? No, that actually undermines the concept of leverage.

Cats out of the bag now so youve lost all your leverage.

No this was a decision based purley out of spite and petty emotional outburst and its down right embarrassing.
 
Paschendale said:
Does anyone really think that the rest of the world actually believed that Israel didn't have nuclear weapons because of the lack of official corroboration? I'm sure a lot of people didn't even know it was supposed to be a secret.
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So then, if it's no big deal (LOL), why did Obama decide to release this information now?
 
Fenton said:
So I don't understand how " people or politics " work and you want me to pretend this happened 10 years ago ?
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No, what I want you to realize is that regardless of when this was released, it's the meaning behind the document that is important.

- Do you not realize that we've been playing cover for Israel while putting in place arbitrary standards on nuclear power for 20 years?
- Is it too much for you to realize that whether this document saw the light of day 10 years from now, last week or whenever is irrelevant?
- Is it too much for you to understand that we literally have been playing defence for a country that never once thought: Well, geee, I wonder how it would make the US look if this information ever saw the light of day?
-That's who you want to call OUR greatest ally in the region?

Your purposeful obtuseness is ****ing classic though. Who would have thought that Israel's knight in shinning armor would not comprehend what was at risk by Israel deciding to ignore the very measures we make every other country jump hoops for.
 
Hatuey said:
This isn't about Obama. This is actually a bipartisan issue. Hell, if tit for was the problem, I wouldn't be making an effort to respond to Fenton's whining about poor Israel. This is about the fact that this document is irrefutable evidence that we've been bluffing for 20+ years. We literally had NO LEGS to stand on when it came to telling other countries what to do or we'd bring sanctions against them at the UN. That we took this ****ing risk for 28 years should be enough to bring cases against EVERY ****ing president INCLUDING Obama. How could the US government have been so ****ing stupid for 30 years?
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And just how do you think this GOP crowd would have responded if Obama had done as you wish right away in 2009?

No, administrative overlap prevented him from doing so--just as with closing Gitmo.

I'm tired of putting the USA at risk due to terrorists hating us over covering up Israeli indiscretions--though it's now too late.
And of course IMHO these indiscretions only get worse when the Likud and their splinter coalition of settlement parties are in power.
Though all Presidents have supported the 1967 borders and the two-state solution, there's still little pressure, especially with today's GOP.

Israel spies on the USA during Reagan's time--I'm wondering if that had anything to do with Reagan's illegal dealings with Iran.
I'm sure you're well-versed on the USS liberty incident--as I'm sure it's been dragged around this forum before I got here.
 
Are you really that naïve to think that Obama should continue to take the broken broom handle up his ass from Bibi and the GOPs?

Anthony60 said:
So then, if it's no big deal (LOL), why did Obama decide to release this information now?
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Why did Bibi disown the two-state solution right before the election, which Arabs never trusted him on, and then lamely try to walk it back--Obama's not biting.
Why did Bibi play the racist card against Israeli Arabs just before the election and then apologize just after, due to blowback from American Jews?

And we know why Benedict Boehner did what he did with Bibi--to undercut Obama--to sabotage the nuke talks.
To make a play for American Jews in the 2016 election .
 
Fenton said:
Yep, Iraq went from its Citizens being able to participate in a Democratic process for the first time in decades to a Country thats being overrun by murderous Islamo-fascist.

Obama's political decision to remove all remnants of American militarily assets did contribute to the destruction of the ME.
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Lol. I'm laughing at YOU thinking that the country of Iraq has ever been a democracy.
 
Fenton said:
Wow

You're so wrapped up in Israeli hate you can't even offer up a intelligent reply.

Doing this doesn't hurt Bibi, it threatens the Security of ALL ISRAELI citizens, even left wing progressive and Arabs.

How " Presidential ". Obama basically telling all US allies that their state secrets are safe with him as long as they dont piss him off.
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Netanyahu's twenty five year history of crying wolf on Iranian nuclear capabilities, and your support of this freak places the two of you in the privy.
 
NIMBY said:
And just how do you think this GOP crowd would have responded if Obama had done as you wish right away in 2009?

No, administrative overlap prevented him from doing so--just as with closing Gitmo.

I'm tired of putting the USA at risk due to terrorists hating us over covering up Israeli indiscretions--though it's now too late.
And of course IMHO these indiscretions only get worse when the Likud and their splinter coalition of settlement parties are in power.
Though all Presidents have supported the 1967 borders and the two-state solution, there's still little pressure, especially with today's GOP.

Israel spies on the USA during Reagan's time--I'm wondering if that had anything to do with Reagan's illegal dealings with Iran.
I'm sure you're well-versed on the USS liberty incident--as I'm sure it's been dragged around this forum before I got here.
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Lol. When I say the same thing that you're saying here, which we agree on, you accuse me of an anti-rant. Patronizing children are funny.
 
NIMBY said:
Are you really that naïve to think that Obama should continue to take the broken broom handle up his ass from Bibi and the GOPs?



Why did Bibi disown the two-state solution right before the election, which Arabs never trusted him on, and then lamely try to walk it back--Obama's not biting.
Why did Bibi play the racist card against Israeli Arabs just before the election and then apologize just after, due to blowback from American Jews?

And we know why Benedict Boehner did what he did with Bibi--to undercut Obama--to sabotage the nuke talks.
To make a play for American Jews in the 2016 election .
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None of that is an answer. We have this childish, vindictive president that is screwing up everything he touches, while Netanyahu has to be the grown up and lead him around. Except Obama is slow on the up take and still doesn't know what time it is. So, the world burns as we wait for this guy to get a clue, or just go away.
 
Anthony60 said:
None of that is an answer. We have this childish, vindictive president that is screwing up everything he touches, while Netanyahu has to be the grown up and lead him around. Except Obama is slow on the up take and still doesn't know what time it is. So, the world burns as we wait for this guy to get a clue, or just go away.
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Netanyahu!! That ****ing freak that has accused Iran for twenty five years of being a year or two away from having a nuclear weapon? That's who you place your flesh against. Have you ever considered taking therapy for that sickness. Look here dude, start thinking about America, and American interests. Stop compromising our security and reputation. Let that dung hole over there destroy themselves. If you're an American, if you're concerned with your fellows, then quit ****ting on your president, stop practicing treason against your own president and be a patriot, an American, support America, and quit sucking on Netanyahu! Do you understand??
 
Montecresto said:
Netanyahu!! That ****ing freak that has accused Iran for twenty five years of being a year or two away from having a nuclear weapon? That's who you place your flesh against. Have you ever considered taking therapy for that sickness. Look here dude, start thinking about America, and American interests. Stop compromising our security and reputation. Let that dung hole over there destroy themselves. If you're an American, if you're concerned with your fellows, then quit ****ting on your president, stop practicing treason against your own president and be a patriot, an American, support America, and quit sucking on Netanyahu! Do you understand??
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What they have failed to realized is that at no point has anyone in Israel ever wondered: What would happen if anyone ever learned we have nuclear weapons after we've gotten our ally in the West to tell the Arabs and Persians that they can't have any? It's all about Obama bashing. Hell, the OP in this thread is so blinded by his desire to attack Obama that he's failed to realize that our ability to demand that others no have nuclear weapons was dependent on having an ally in the area who didn't ignore every single standard we've set for the Arabs and Persians. Now, there is absolutely no ****ing incentive for anyone to listen to anything the US has to say on nuclear proliferation. All for what? So we could cover the tails of Israel? **** that noise.
 
Montecresto said:
Lol. I'm laughing at YOU thinking that the country of Iraq has ever been a democracy.
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Meh..

You were no doubt neck deep in Bush derangement syndrome when Iraqi's were walking around with purple fingers so I'm not surprised you would say something like that.

You never acknowledged the fact that Iraqi's WERE voting because it would contradict your Bush obsession.
 
The Jewish community typically votes Democrat...am I right?

I was also under the impression they gave a lot of money to the Democrat party...is that right?


Will these action by the president lead to a fundamental change in how the Jewish community votes?
 
DiAnna said:
I'm very pro-Israel, but can't stand Netanyahu. That isn't the point. The point is that we have deliberately and publicly betrayed an ally because it's president dissed our president. Tit for tat might make the world go 'round, but not tit for tat public disclosure. As I understand these documents, they don't just say, "Hey world, it's true that Israel has nukes!" They say, "Hey world, it's true Israel has nukes, and here's all the secret plans and blueprints for 'em!"

I'm not a huge Obama fan, but I've never gone out of my way to insult him and always hope that his actions will be best for the country. This monumental act of stupid struck me like a fist to the face. It looks petulant and punitive given the timing, and no American hopes that the world will view their president as petulant and punitive.

I'm disappointed that he did this, and that's putting it mildly.
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There is nothing to suggest we declassified any information about Israel's nuclear program other than they have it and we knew they had it. Which is what everyone knew anyway and the fact we did not ever admit it only made us look like hypocrites. Israel over the years has been given over 120 Billion dollars in foreign aid from the United States. That is over $15,000 for every individual in the country paid for by U.S. taxpayers and in return their government insults our president, undermines negotiations and spies on us. Moreover, we hardly get anything for it. It is not like they sit on a bunch of oil or anything. Look, we own them, if they don't like that, then get off the U.S. taxpayers dime. Personally I don't take money as a handout from anyone because I don't want anyone owning me, but if I did, I sure as hell would not insult them later. I just think the country's government obviously needs to be put in its place a little bit, and I see no problem with doing it.
 
Blue_State said:
The Jewish community typically votes Democrat...am I right?

I was also under the impression they gave a lot of money to the Democrat party...is that right?


Will these action by the president lead to a fundamental change in how the Jewish community votes?
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No because the Jewish community mostly votes Democrat because they are mostly liberal. In fact, even Israel is a very liberal country in terms of its welfare state. Moreover, not that many American Jews have the same views about Israel that the fundamentalist base of the Republican Party has.
 
Anthony60 said:
None of that is an answer. We have this childish, vindictive president that is screwing up everything he touches, while Netanyahu has to be the grown up and lead him around. Except Obama is slow on the up take and still doesn't know what time it is. So, the world burns as we wait for this guy to get a clue, or just go away.
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Don't grown ups typically pay their own way in life? Perhaps if Bibi wants to be a grown up he could start by not coming here cup in hand all the time wanting more U.S. taxpayer money.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
No because the Jewish community mostly votes Democrat because they are mostly liberal. In fact, even Israel is a very liberal country in terms of its welfare state. Moreover, not that many American Jews have the same views about Israel that the fundamentalist base of the Republican Party has.
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I don't have a pulse on the Jewish community, but if I were Jewish and I was watching my homeland get thrown under the bus by my party, I would be disenfranchised. Just my $0.02.
 
Blue_State said:
I don't have a pulse on the Jewish community, but if I were Jewish and I was watching my homeland get thrown under the bus by my party, I would be disenfranchised. Just my $0.02.
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Personally I find it absurd for the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid to claim thats being thrown under the bus by the USA.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Personally I find it absurd for the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid to claim thats being thrown under the bus by the USA.
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You believe we should treat all of our allies the way we are currently treating Israel? Do you see there has been a clear shift on our international dealings with Israel in the last few years?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Personally I find it absurd for the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid to claim thats being thrown under the bus by the USA.
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Obamas treatment of one of our closest allies in one of the most unstable regions on the Planet has been unprecedented.

Say what you want about the value of the information disclosed, the point is Obama's decision was motivated by spite.

Not strategy, not a smart thoughtful decision based on Foreign Policy but pure spite and hatred.

Its beneath the office he swore an oath to and it tells our allies that their State secrets can and will be disclosed if they anger Obama.

This is indefensible. This was a childish and petty act and its embarrassing.
 
Fenton said:
Meh..

You were no doubt neck deep in Bush derangement syndrome when Iraqi's were walking around with purple fingers so I'm not surprised you would say something like that.

You never acknowledged the fact that Iraqi's WERE voting because it would contradict your Bush obsession.
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Yes, they've voted. You think that's the extent of democracy. By that logic, you believe that Crimea is a thriving democracy.
 
NIMBY said:
That definitely describes Benedict Boehner and the GOP President Bibi.
The very same Bibi who lyingly tries to take back his two-state etch-a-sketches and anti-Israeli Arab racist remarks.
And the liar Boehner who denies knowledge of Israeli spying .
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No that's Obama.
 
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