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Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

For crying out loud are you both being purposefully dense?

Clown boy, you said you watch Big Bang theory, so you should know who Sheldon is.

HarinSeldon, YOU should know what the Foundation series is.

Jesus.

I never said or posted I didn't know what the Foundation Series is, I even gave an elaboration. Clowny is purposely being dense. He's just trying to run some interference for Logicman who I enjoy teasing. Especially when he spouts his "everyone who doesn't believe as he does is going to hell" nonsense. Not sure who Harin Seldon is though. :mrgreen:
 
Nonsense, and one AgentJ is enough for any forum. You weren't bandying about any facts, or even talking about this bill. I'll refresh your memory:

What's wrong about that?


When you said "everything" - you only meant that post?
 
Is this the part of the thread where the republicans will tell you proudly -- it was THEY who help push the CRA of 1964 law through and champion with glee it was they who get to take credit for it?

Oh yeah, that happens in the other threads.

Well, since you did it for us, thanks? :roll:
 
So long as those bakers did not write those messages on cakes for anyone, then they are being "tolerant". Did they refuse to bake him a cake or cookie for his opposite sex wedding? Did they tell him that they were refusing his requested item because of his religion? No. There is no intolerance there. Taken the other way. Has a baker (in the US) been taken to court or fined or even accused of discrimination due to refusing to bake a cake with the words "gay marriage is okay" or "support gay/same sex marriage" on it?

Did he mention religion or his religion at all?

Let me get this straight, your premise is that if an anti-gay marriage bakers tells a someone he as a policy does not bake cakes for gay weddings, thats ok?
 
He made it perfectly clear that the cake was for an upcoming celebration of traditional marriage. The bakers who stated they did not do same sex wedding cakes and had never done one before were considered discriminating. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

That pun was the icing on the cake!
 
You could have just told me you were talking ABOUT Sheldon, a character on BBT, when I first QUOTED your post.

I thought it was obvious. I really wasn't sure what you were talking about but considered it a defense of Logicman since that is who I was originally posting to, my bad I guess.
 
What's wrong about that?


When you said "everything" - you only meant that post?

Go back, see that little image after the sentence? Now whatever can that mean? Yikes dude. :doh
 
Greetings, Roguenuke. :2wave:

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a story made up by someone with a grudge against that bakery. It doesn't make sense for any business to turn down a paying customer if the facts are as you relate. Something else must have happened that hasn't been told. How did the baker know their sexual leanings? Had the baker previously told them they were not welcome in his bakery because of obnoxious behavior on their part in the past? Were they demanding, rude and/or nasty in their attitude? There are always two sides to every story. Lots of people think they are entitled to act any way they like - we see them all the time at the mall, for instance. I just don't know what to believe here.

Are you talking about the real cases, at least two in different states, where the same sex couples went to really buy a cake for their same sex marriage/celebration of their marriage, and were denied service once the bakers found out they were a same sex couple wanting a wedding cake?

Oregon ruling really takes the cake -- Christian bakery guilty of violating civil rights of lesbian couple | Fox News

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado Bakery, Agrees To 'Dog Wedding' Cake Despite Turning Away Gays

No one was being "set up" here. They didn't have to be. The owners openly admitted that not only did they deny service to these couples, at least one of them, if not both, have denied service to same sex couples prior to these incidents. One of the shops closed its storefront business, and now works from home, taking orders online. The other claims to not sell wedding cakes anymore, but still advertises that he does on his website. And there are many comments on Yelp that show that he did in fact discriminate against other couples before this one stood up for themselves and reported him/sued him.
 
Has anyone checked how many bakeries they are in any major city or small town? Go ahead and look and come back to tell me the results.
 
He made it perfectly clear that the cake was for an upcoming celebration of traditional marriage. The bakers who stated they did not do same sex wedding cakes and had never done one before were considered discriminating. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

No he didn't. He said it was a cake to support traditional marriage, not for a "traditional" marriage/wedding celebration. The very first phone call was to a place that didn't even make wedding cakes or any cakes for that matter, but rather big cookies, which she told him several times before she finally went off on him. And there is no more a such thing as "same sex wedding cake" then there is "interracial wedding cakes" or "Muslim wedding cakes" or "Christian wedding cakes". The couple did not ask for a "same sex wedding cake". They asked simply for a wedding cake, which the bakery sold. They were denied due to their relative sexes, not because the bakery didn't make such cakes.
 
Did he mention religion or his religion at all?

Let me get this straight, your premise is that if an anti-gay marriage bakers tells a someone he as a policy does not bake cakes for gay weddings, thats ok?

Nope. The cake is being denied due to the sexuality/sexes of the people ordering the cake, not the content of the cake, when the baker refuses to sell them a cake based on them being of the same sex, homosexual.

This is an attempt at spin. It failed.

And he doesn't have to mention his religion. Even if they had assumed his religion and denied him the cake based off that, it would have been illegal discrimination. But that is not what happened. They refused to bake a cake they did not make for anyone. They would not write those words on a cake for any customer, which is why the man in question was denied service for that request.
 
I believe 3 out of all the bakeries he spoke with offered to bake a cake but not decorate it with the words "Gay Marriage is Wrong". They just outright refused and found it offensive. But you seem to miss the irony completely. The one asking for the cake doesn't see the phrase "Gay Marriage is Wrong" to be offensive as it is part of his religious beliefs that traditional marriage is holy matrimony and some faiths believe it to be one of the sacraments. He was denied a service over his religious beliefs. Yet a person whose moral conscience doesn't want to do gay wedding cakes is forced to under fear of jail, fines etc.

While surfing the web today, I discovered there are lawsuits against gay bakers who refused to provide a cake that did not support gay marriage.

One such case was an order for an open Bible with this symbol placed on the cake.

no-gay-marriage.png


The gay baker refused to do it. Now there are cases in our court system of gay bakers being sued for denying a cake with a Scripture pertaining to sexual sin or symbolism

You see, I think the gay baker has the right to deny a service that offends them. But I also believe those of religious convictions where gay marriage is an abomination to their faith should not be forced to create something for a person that they find offensive.

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

:agree: My first thought is why anyone would visit numerous bakeries in the first place. It sounds like they were looking for a reason to file a lawsuit, and perhaps make some easy money. Why didn't they just go with the first bakery that agreed to bake and decorate their cake the way they wanted? Was this a research project for someone with an agenda? It just sounds suspicious to me that anyone would take the time to do this, just out of curiousity.
 
No he didn't. He said it was a cake to support traditional marriage, not for a "traditional" marriage/wedding celebration. The very first phone call was to a place that didn't even make wedding cakes or any cakes for that matter, but rather big cookies, which she told him several times before she finally went off on him. And there is no more a such thing as "same sex wedding cake" then there is "interracial wedding cakes" or "Muslim wedding cakes" or "Christian wedding cakes". The couple did not ask for a "same sex wedding cake". They asked simply for a wedding cake, which the bakery sold. They were denied due to their relative sexes, not because the bakery didn't make such cakes.

The bakeries this man called except one made all occasion cakes which is what he was asking for. And yes he did state about an upcoming event in the coming weeks to celebrate traditional marriage. If the baker stayed on the line long enough he shared his views that he believed marriage to be between a man and a woman. The irony is in black and white not fifty shades of grey.
 
Has anyone checked how many bakeries they are in any major city or small town? Go ahead and look and come back to tell me the results.

I live in a small town. One bakery.

Not another one for 30 miles.

What is the point?
 
Show that this is actually happening. Anyone can refuse to make a cake with wording on it that they feel is hurtful, wrong, etc., so long as they refuse to do so for everyone.
If businesses boycott the state because of the law, they're discriminating. Same with other states banning travel to Indiana. It's discrimination
 
If businesses boycott the state because of the law, they're discriminating. Same with other states banning travel to Indiana. It's discrimination

Oh brother.

That's a pretty stupid post.

Let me guess, you read that dumb pjmedia piece.
 
The bakeries this man called except one made all occasion cakes which is what he was asking for. And yes he did state about an upcoming event in the coming weeks to celebrate traditional marriage. If the baker stayed on the line long enough he shared his views that he believed marriage to be between a man and a woman. The irony is in black and white not fifty shades of grey.

He said that it was to celebrate "pro-traditional marriage", not a traditional marriage. He was not requesting a wedding cake. And bakeries are free to refuse to serve someone if the person asks for something put on, written on, drawn on the cake that they find offensive, simply do not wish to do. There is no "irony" at all here. It is one idiot being hailed by those who believe it should be okay for bakeries to refuse service to gays because he tried (and failed) to show these bakeries were hypocritical or something else. He wasn't being honest with those bakeries (no one would look for a cake from bakeries in different states, these were in different states), and they are free to refuse service to anyone, so long as the refusal is not based on a classification of the person protected by law. They did not refuse service to him based on his religion, his race, his sex, his sexuality, or any other protected classification. The bakeries, Sweet cakes by Melissa and Masterpiece cakeshop both refused service and stated that they were refusing service to the people ordering the wedding cakes because they were of the same sex, homosexual. Not one of the bakeries he asked specifically stated he was being refused service for such a reason.
 
If businesses boycott the state because of the law, they're discriminating. Same with other states banning travel to Indiana. It's discrimination

There is legal discrimination, and even "justified" discrimination, and then there is illegal discrimination and/or unjustified discrimination.
 
Nope. The cake is being denied due to the sexuality/sexes of the people ordering the cake, not the content of the cake, when the baker refuses to sell them a cake based on them being of the same sex, homosexual.

This is an attempt at spin. It failed.

And he doesn't have to mention his religion. Even if they had assumed his religion and denied him the cake based off that, it would have been illegal discrimination. But that is not what happened. They refused to bake a cake they did not make for anyone. They would not write those words on a cake for any customer, which is why the man in question was denied service for that request.

No spin, in the video, gay bakers denied the cake to people of a different sexuality, because they dont agree with their view of marriage.
And again, if an anti-gay marriage baker does not make gay wedding cakes for anyone whats the problem?
 
Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

:agree: My first thought is why anyone would visit numerous bakeries in the first place. It sounds like they were looking for a reason to file a lawsuit, and perhaps make some easy money. Why didn't they just go with the first bakery that agreed to bake and decorate their cake the way they wanted? Was this a research project for someone with an agenda? It just sounds suspicious to me that anyone would take the time to do this, just out of curiousity.

It's been pretty much proven that those who went after people who do not perform services in their professions in the wedding industry were being targeted by gay marriage activists. And they are just fine with forcing someone to make them a cake or haul them to court. Between these escapades of gay marriage activists hauling photographers/bakers/florists/ caterers into court for refusing to do said services due to religious convictions, state laws on religious freedom had to better protect those people of faith. It wasn't just the wedding industry but how this administration passed a law that discriminated against charities and businesses over certain things that violated their beliefs in Obamacare.

The guy in the video targeted gay bakers asking for an anti-gay cake and recorded their responses on a video. He did not file charges against any of the gay bakers for discrimination but he sure revealed the hypocrisy.

Guess all the hoopla over Pence's bill didn't stop Arkansas from passing one almost identical today.
 
In places lots of people live in the country.

Small towns. Yanno?

Or what I call -- paradise.

It's basically me and an old lady and that's basically it for some miles. I love it out here, but come on, most people aren't living in these kind of places.
 
He said that it was to celebrate "pro-traditional marriage", not a traditional marriage. He was not requesting a wedding cake. And bakeries are free to refuse to serve someone if the person asks for something put on, written on, drawn on the cake that they find offensive, simply do not wish to do. There is no "irony" at all here. It is one idiot being hailed by those who believe it should be okay for bakeries to refuse service to gays because he tried (and failed) to show these bakeries were hypocritical or something else. He wasn't being honest with those bakeries (no one would look for a cake from bakeries in different states, these were in different states), and they are free to refuse service to anyone, so long as the refusal is not based on a classification of the person protected by law. They did not refuse service to him based on his religion, his race, his sex, his sexuality, or any other protected classification. The bakeries, Sweet cakes by Melissa and Masterpiece cakeshop both refused service and stated that they were refusing service to the people ordering the wedding cakes because they were of the same sex, homosexual. Not one of the bakeries he asked specifically stated he was being refused service for such a reason.

You are just making excuses here. The hypocrisy here is stunning.

BTW all the bill does is protect the business from a lawsuit, if they have a conviction to not sell to gays, I say fine (its a private business), however they will likely suffer for holding that view.
 
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