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Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

Hate is a great powerful tool. It unifies the GOP base. The GOP base hates gays more then they are willing to vote for their own interests. And that's exactly how the anti-gay Republican politicians like it.

I know lots of lifelong Republicans. I know lots of Republicans active in politics, including Republican politicians. I don't know anyone who hates gays. I've voted for the Republican candidate in every single POTUS election since 1980. I don't hate gays. My husband is a Republican, and he doesn't hate gays.
 
Yes that was sort of my point. I don't want to know who someone else loves. I don't want to know that someone else doesn't approve of who I love. I don't want to know I think everyone should keep this **** to themselves. I don't care what a business owner thinks of John & Jim if I'm going to him to bake me a cake. I only care that he's clean, his ingredients are fresh, and he washed his hands before he made my cake. I don't think John & Jim should care about what the baker thinks of them. I don't think the baker should think of them and what they do in their private time. This isn't the ****ing middle ages where adults made decisions on who married who.

How the hell this has become such a rabidly angry issue on both sides is beyond me. I don't care who loves who any more than I cared about who approved of my choice of husband or didn't approve, as the case may be.

great, and I agree.

but it really comes down to speech. people boycott a place as a form of speech. why can't that speech cut both ways?
 
I don't care if you're gay, Eskimo, left-handed and work as a prosthodontist. If you're in the minority and the majority has taken it upon themselves to discriminate against you you'll be marginalized.

Ah, but when only a minority portion of the majority take it upon themselves to discriminate against a minority, the what? Especially when most of that majority does not engage in such discrimination?
 
Being gay isn't a business practice. Being gay has to do with love and sex. I'm on topic. :roll:
Yes but we aren't talking about being gay. We're talking about businesses rejecting gay customers. You are off topic.
 
Yes but we aren't talking about being gay. We're talking about businesses rejecting gay customers. You are off topic.

Then report me. And yes, we are talking about being gay. Gay customers are gay. Now, again, please report me to the moderators if this upsets you.
 
I love that you are annyed by two inventions of your imagination :D

Yeah, it couldn't be something I picked up by talking to them or anything.
 
Youll have to ask the people you speak of, i don't know anybody like that or any situation like that

So aren't you a black man? Why do you support these laws?
 
I know lots of lifelong Republicans. I know lots of Republicans active in politics, including Republican politicians. I don't know anyone who hates gays. I've voted for the Republican candidate in every single POTUS election since 1980. I don't hate gays. My husband is a Republican, and he doesn't hate gays.

Every time this comes up though it's the Republicans. It's the Republican politicians in the red states.

I don't know what to tell you. There's a pattern.
 
Yeah, it couldn't be something I picked up by talking to them or anything.

yes im very sure thats what you invented in your head from talking to them, there's no doubt. I love that part too, where "A" is stated and in your mind you heard B, C and Z.
 
1.)So aren't you a black man?
2.)Why do you support these laws?

1.)Yes I am
2.) what laws? the ones you claim that exists do not

your question was "Why would minorities desire to impose their will on businesses if they didn't get anything from it?"
I dont fit that mold or know anybody who does
 
great, and I agree.

but it really comes down to speech. people boycott a place as a form of speech. why can't that speech cut both ways?

I absolutely agree. And I know without even reading this thread that there are probably many posts that say "But the LAW says....". That's why these threads always break down. And there are probably posts like "But should a hospital be allowed to decline treatment to a gay patient?" and other hypotheticals like that. And the usual uses of "bigot!" and other name callings. KKK references, that sort of thing.

To your point, it should work both ways. I say that all the time about this issue. Either make it so everyone has to be served, or leave it up to the discretion of the business owner who he serves. The market takes care of itself. If refusing to serve gay men or cigarette smokers or people with beards or blondes or polygamists offends people, they won't go to the business, and it will suffer. The article says how all of these businesses are going to pack up and leave Indy because of this. That's what they said was going to happen in Arizona, too. It didn't.

I understand we can't go back to the days when it was acceptable to not serve blacks and women and Irish and Japanese and so on. But I really also don't believe that in this country, it would become industry standard.

And I don't want to know who loves who, and nobody should know who I love. Why does anyone care what consenting adults do?
 
1.)Yes I am
2.) what laws? the ones you claim that exists do not

your question was "Why would minorities desire to impose their will on businesses if they didn't get anything from it?"
I dont fit that mold or know anybody who does

You support anti-discrimination laws, so clearly you support forcing your will on business owners. Is it wrong of me to ask you why you support anti-discrimination laws?
 
Your Orwellian doublespeak just strengthens my point

“They have the right to do what you tell them to do.”

"no shirt, no shoes, no service"

that is a form of discrimination. they clearly have the right to discriminate.
No, you are stretching.
Be careful, could throw your back out.
 
This is america, we don't allow discrimination. You want to live in a theocracy, there are plenty of miserable places you can move to.

Why do you believe businesses must serve people?


Depends.

If they need to close the store for say a death in the family, no. If they refuse to serve someone because they have red hair, yes. Plain and simple, it's discrimination.
 
So if my boss sent me to you because you're who he has an account with, you really think I have a right to go somewhere else and spend his money?

That's a very strange opinion you have their.
Did that leap hurt?
You are welcome to come, I cannot discriminate.
 
For profit "membership clubs" are typically not except from Public Accommodation laws. To be exempt they have to be: Not-for-Profit, have bylaws and criteria, have a restrictive membership relative to the statement membership, and be governed by an elected board of the members.


Nobody would think that Costco, Sam's Club, and BJ's Warehouse would be exempt from Pubic Accommodation laws even though people pay a membership fee to join.


>>>>

For profit clubs can be restrictive in their membership
 
"But should a hospital be allowed to decline treatment to a gay patient?" and other hypotheticals like that.

Supposedly that happened today, in Indiana. A gay man went to the doctor, he was refused treatment.

If true that not imaginary, it's real.
 
Depends.

If they need to close the store for say a death in the family, no. If they refuse to serve someone because they have red hair, yes. Plain and simple, it's discrimination.
So? What's wrong with discrimination?
 
Every time this comes up though it's the Republicans. It's the Republican politicians in the red states.

I don't know what to tell you. There's a pattern.

If I recall correctly, it was the black voters who passed Proposition 8 in the blue state of California. They aren't Republicans.

I also don't recall anything in the Republican platform about denying service to gay people. And I also recall earlier in this month when 300+ Republican lawmakers publicly appealed to SCOTUS to recognize same sex marriage nationally.

Mike Pence doesn't speak for the RNC or the Republican base. Nor do his actions indicate that Republicans "hate gays". He's doing what he thinks is best for his state and to ensure that the religious people in his state aren't forced into commerce against their will.
 
Actually what they are saying is that if a customer wants to refuse a business transaction based upon the business owner's race, gender, creed, sexuality, etc then they may do so, but the business owner cannot do the same in return. Sounds like you favor discrimination in one direction but not the other.

Govt can regulate business. I know you don't like that but we don't live in the libertarian dictatorship
 
Govt can regulate business. I know you don't like that but we don't live in the libertarian dictatorship
The government can do a lot of things.... Doesn't mean they should.
 
Did that leap hurt?
Real personal experience, not a leap. My boss allowed concealed carry at work, he sent me to a major store to use the company account to buy materials, and that store sent me out because an employee noticed my gun printing. Now you're saying I have some right to go somewhere else, but no, I don't. It's not my money I'm spending. By turning me out that supplier was harming my ability to work and my employer's ability to work.

And all over something which wasn't harming anyone.
 
If I recall correctly, it was the black voters who passed Proposition 8 in the blue state of California. They aren't Republicans.

I also don't recall anything in the Republican platform about denying service to gay people. And I also recall earlier in this month when 300+ Republican lawmakers publicly appealed to SCOTUS to recognize same sex marriage nationally.

Mike Pence doesn't speak for the RNC or the Republican base. Nor do his actions indicate that Republicans "hate gays". He's doing what he thinks is best for his state and to ensure that the religious people in his state aren't forced into commerce against their will.

It was Arizona last year. This year it's Indiana.. On the national and state stage the Republicans have been fighting gay marriage for years. He's NOT doing what's best for the state! Many businesses already said they're gone or not doing business there anymore. The Republican Mayor of Indy already broke ranks with Pense because he knows it's going to costs his city millions. This is a political move by him to kiss up to the religious right.
 
Ah, but when only a minority portion of the majority take it upon themselves to discriminate against a minority, the what? Especially when most of that majority does not engage in such discrimination?

That's great, but as a member of the majority (white male, dresses mainstream), I don't need to ask myself, "Gee, I wonder if I'll be discriminated against if I try to do business here." A member of the minority would have to deal with that, and would find themselves at a significant disadvantage in the course of doing business, getting an education, etc. By making that type of discrimination illegal you prevent a de facto caste system. If the result of this is that bigots feel irritated by their inability to marginalize the focus of their pettiness, I feel that's an absolutely reasonable price.
 
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