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German plane intentionally crashed

shrubnose said:
I know that if that sick guy hadn't been the co-pilot on that plane a lot of dead people would be alive right now. :roll:

Do you want to argue that point?
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You don't know it could have been prevented, which is what you said, and yes, I'll argue that point all day long.

The debate isn't about whether these people are dead, and whether they're dead at his hands. They are, and they are.

Now stop trying to make this any worse by making claims you can not possibly back up. Nobody has any idea at all yet why he did what he did, and people snap all the time. Seemingly normal, successful, rational people, killing their children or strangers or whatever.
 
tres borrachos said:
I can imagine, and that's the problem. I need to stop imagining.

My cousin's husband had a cousin (I know, sounds like 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon...) who died on Pan Am 103 coming back to the states from her studies abroad. He always says the one thing that got her parents (his aunt & uncle) through it was knowing that she really couldn't possibly have known what hit her.

These people knew they were doomed. There were children on that plane. High schoolers. FFS what kind of monster would intentionally do this?

I truly hope they find out that he simply passed out in the cockpit and didn't do this intentionally.
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Unfortunately the co-pilot was breathing till the last moment,it was deliberate.
 
tres borrachos said:
I can imagine, and that's the problem. I need to stop imagining.

My cousin's husband had a cousin (I know, sounds like 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon...) who died on Pan Am 103 coming back to the states from her studies abroad. He always says the one thing that got her parents (his aunt & uncle) through it was knowing that she really couldn't possibly have known what hit her.

These people knew they were doomed. There were children on that plane. High schoolers. FFS what kind of monster would intentionally do this?

I truly hope they find out that he simply passed out in the cockpit and didn't do this intentionally.
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Except the recording showed he was breathing normally up to the last second although he did not speak. He also had to repeatedly press the door lock button to override the external keypad which would have allowed entry.
 
youngturk said:
Unfortunately the co-pilot was breathing till the last moment,it was deliberate.
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Yeah, I've been following the news all morning. It was wishful thinking on my part. It's better than knowing he did it on purpose, which has been confirmed. I heard he was breathing and hoped maybe he passed out (you still breathe when you pass out). But it's him manually setting it in that slow descent which is what makes the deliberation true.

I just can't imagine.
 
iguanaman said:
Except the recording showed he was breathing normally up to the last second although he did not speak. He also had to repeatedly press the door lock button to override the external keypad which would have allowed entry.
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Yes, I know that already. That post was from earlier this morning before they made the announcement that it was deliberate. We're way past that.
 
Deuce said:
Or maybe it would have let it fester longer so he would have crashed the plane into an orphanage instead of a mountain. It's just speculation.


I wouldn't hold my breath. Such a thing is going to be expensive if it's going to be even remotely effective. Your low-cost carriers probably aren't going to do this willingly.



I try not to look for rational decision-making process in someone who would do this. If this FO were being rational he wouldn't have crashed the plane in the first place.
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Starting to look like 9/11 on a much smaller scale essentially. They're saying now the co- pilot went to School in Arizona.

The nineteen hijackers were I guess " suicidal " if you ignore their primary goal.

And that was to kill as many innocent Americans as possible.

Had the Captain left the cockpit earlier in the flight, there's no telling where that co-pilot would have decided to kamikaze that A320.

As far as a Captain being locked out ? In hind sight it sure seems like a foolish decision not to install some redundancy that would allow one of the Flight crew to gain acces after being locked out.

A keypad or a cipher lock. After 9/11 its hard to believe they would just put solid steel doors with a dead lock on those Cockpits.
 
iguanaman said:
Except the recording showed he was breathing normally up to the last second although he did not speak. He also had to repeatedly press the door lock button to override the external keypad which would have allowed entry.
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So there WAS a external Cipher lock on the **** pit door ?

Why on earth would they install internal overide ?
 
tres borrachos said:
You don't know it could have been prevented, which is what you said, and yes, I'll argue that point all day long.

The debate isn't about whether these people are dead, and whether they're dead at his hands. They are, and they are.

Now stop trying to make this any worse by making claims you can not possibly back up. Nobody has any idea at all yet why he did what he did, and people snap all the time. Seemingly normal, successful, rational people, killing their children or strangers or whatever.
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Most of those people aren't flying airplanes with 150 people on them when they snap. :roll:
 
To stop bad people forcing the crew to open the door.... Duh.
 
tres borrachos said:
Yeah, I've been following the news all morning. It was wishful thinking on my part. It's better than knowing he did it on purpose, which has been confirmed. I heard he was breathing and hoped maybe he passed out (you still breathe when you pass out). But it's him manually setting it in that slow descent which is what makes the deliberation true.

I just can't imagine.
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I can and there's plenty of proof that it was deliberate.
 
shrubnose said:
Most of those people aren't flying airplanes with 150 people on them when they snap. :roll:
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That is true. It's rare, but it happens every so often. This from Dec 2013:

"...Dos Santos Fernandes locked himself in the cockpit, and did not allow his co-pilot back inside until moments before the plane hit the ground, Mr Abreu said.
"During these actions you can hear low and high-intensity alarm signals and repeated beating against the door with demands to come into the cockpit," he was quoted as saying by state news agency AIM.
"The reasons which may have given rise to this behaviour are unknown."
Investigations also showed that Dos Santos Fernandes manually changed the aircraft's altitude three times from 11,500 metres (38,000 feet) to 180 metres (592 feet)... "

Pilot 'deliberately crashed' Mozambique plane - BBC News
 
Manc Skipper said:
That is true. It's rare, but it happens every so often. This from Dec 2013:

"...Dos Santos Fernandes locked himself in the cockpit, and did not allow his co-pilot back inside until moments before the plane hit the ground, Mr Abreu said.
"During these actions you can hear low and high-intensity alarm signals and repeated beating against the door with demands to come into the cockpit," he was quoted as saying by state news agency AIM.
"The reasons which may have given rise to this behaviour are unknown."
Investigations also showed that Dos Santos Fernandes manually changed the aircraft's altitude three times from 11,500 metres (38,000 feet) to 180 metres (592 feet)... "

Pilot 'deliberately crashed' Mozambique plane - BBC News
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Just why though? And how can it prevented?
 
tres borrachos said:
My first post was wishful thinking. I even stressed that. I really hoped it wasn't true, or they would find something to indicate the guy passed out in there or something. But sadly, not the case.
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I took it as a serious report that Java Joe was discussing the possibility. At any rate, I've now too heard the report. Very chilling.
 
Fenton said:
So there WAS a external Cipher lock on the **** pit door ?

Why on earth would they install internal overide ?
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So hijackers cant use the code to break into the cockpit.
 
Montecresto said:
I took it as a serious report that Java Joe was discussing the possibility. At any rate, I've now too heard the report. Very chilling.
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He looks so damn normal in his pictures. Lived in a nice house. I haven't heard any details on his personal life yet (family, kids, etc.).

They keep showing pictures of that high school in Germany and I wish they'd stop doing that. I keep thinking of those high schoolers on that plane.
 
Fenton said:
So there WAS a external Cipher lock on the **** pit door ?

Why on earth would they install internal overide ?
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From what I read, the keypad override lasts for 5 minutes after the lock button is pushed. I suppose it was to prevent an obtained code from being used by terrorists while still covering the possibility of a heart attack since the keypad would be usable after 5 minutes. But honestly I don't think there is any way to prevent a pilot or copilot from bringing down the plane if he is determined. Short of computer flown planes that is.
 
Just another reason why it is a bad idea to put your life in someone else's hands.
 
tres borrachos said:
He looks so damn normal in his pictures. Lived in a nice house. I haven't heard any details on his personal life yet (family, kids, etc.).

They keep showing pictures of that high school in Germany and I wish they'd stop doing that. I keep thinking of those high schoolers on that plane.
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I have no access to TV where I'm at presently, just satellite radio, which is fine less photos. I assume he doesn't have the appearance of a Muslim extremist, if I can say that.
 
iguanaman said:
From what I read, the keypad override lasts for 5 minutes after the lock button is pushed. I suppose it was to prevent an obtained code from being used by terrorists while still covering the possibility of a heart attack since the keypad would be usable after 5 minutes. But honestly I don't think there is any way to prevent a pilot or copilot from bringing down the plane if he is determined. Short of computer flown planes that is.
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Thats crazy !! 5 minutes at 500 miles an hour with the Captain locked out iw plenty of time to kamikaze a jet liner.

I'm sure they'll make some changes and write new Regulations and probably for good reason.

Its too bad that regulations like this are often written in blood.

I can see a time when humans are completely taken out of the process of flying Carriers and its too bad.

I'm pretty sure they possess the tech to do this already.
 
Henrin said:
Just another reason why it is a bad idea to put your life in someone else's hands.
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In terms of travel, whether by Car, Boat, Train or airplanes your life is always in someone elsea hands to some degree.

Even if your'e driving alone there is no guarantee that some drunk lunatic isn't going run Red light and take you out.
 
Fenton said:
In terms of travel, whether by Car, Boat, Train or airplanes your life is always in someone elsea hands to some degree.

Even if your'e driving alone there is no guarantee that some drunk lunatic isn't going run Red light and take you out.
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Sure, but I still have some sort of control in a car. In a plane my life is entirely in the hands of the pilot and there isn't a damn thing I can do to gain control if he goes completely ****ing insane and wants to kill me.
 
Henrin said:
Just another reason why it is a bad idea to put your life in someone else's hands.
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So you fly your own plane then?
 
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