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Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

Dovkan said:
Hypocrisy on what? Private healthcare is essentially the only option for the most part, and what does donating to the treasury have to do with anything? I'm in favor of taxes that scale based on wealth, I don't see the connection with donating to the treasury.
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You think about it for a while.
 
Dovkan said:
No one is forced to get on obamacare's plans! Why do people keep saying this, it's just preposterous. I want the government to provide healthcare to everyone, as it is a basic human right, but that's just my opinion based on my compassion for other human beings.
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So do people have a right to their own labor? Yes or no? If so, how can healthcare be a right?
 
Henrin said:
So do people have a right to their own labor? Yes or no? If so, how can healthcare be a right?
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What do you mean by "right to their own labor" I think that healthcare should be a human right based on having compassion for others, that is all.
 
Dovkan said:
Hypocrisy on what? Private healthcare is essentially the only option for the most part, and what does donating to the treasury have to do with anything? I'm in favor of taxes that scale based on wealth, I don't see the connection with donating to the treasury.
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If you want to pay more go ahead and pay more by donating to the treasury.
 
Dovkan said:
What do you mean by "right to their own labor" I think that healthcare should be a human right based on having compassion for others, that is all.
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Services need to be provided. Should people be forced to provide you healthcare against their will?
 
Dovkan said:
The cost is too great?

~snipped the irrelevant blather about other countries...we are talking about the United States here~

What cost other then money?
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These are the costs...other than money...associated with Obamacare. The UHC you desire would only increase these costs...as well as the monetary costs.

If the program was passed through coercion, noble lies, and subterfuge, and ushered in with the same, why would anyone believe it will not operate in the same spirit and practice? Why should everyone who has insurance expect to believe that he was simply given it and that everyone who doesn’t was deprived of it, when millions made difficult and costly choices not to play the odds while at least a few million others in no different circumstances embraced different choices?

To counter all of the above, Obamacare would have to assume that it is hip, knows best, is not worried about Neanderthal human nature, and has the power to force what it wishes anyway—and there we have what we have.

Obamacare and Human Nature |
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The early experience with the ACA shows disregard for human dignity in all these ways. In its very conception, it reduces freedom in an unprecedented way: by forcing people to purchase a product or face an increasingly steep financial penalty if they don’t. It refuses to allow them to choose how to go about taking care of one of the most personal of commodities: their bodily health. They may do it only by purchasing health insurance (which, by the way, is not synonymous with health care). Further, they may for the most part purchase only the kind of insurance coverage approved by the federal government. It is likely to reduce their health care choices further by limiting who can be their medical practitioners. In effect, the ACA tells people that they are unintelligent or ignorant; they cannot be trusted to make their own health care decisions.

How Obamacare Offends Human Dignity - Crisis Magazine
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Henrin said:
If you want to pay more go ahead and pay more by donating to the treasury.
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I will pay what is mandated by the government at the moment, this statement is ridiculous and can be applied to many things on either side, it adds no relevance to discussion. Again, if taxes scaled based on wealth, like they should, in my opinion, I would pay them. It's like when jesus supposedly said stuff like this: "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back." I suppose all Christians are hypocrites. :roll:
 
Mycroft said:
These are the costs...other than money...associated with Obamacare. The UHC you desire would only increase these costs...as well as the monetary costs.
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No one is forced to purchase anything, you refuse to address this.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
But then his next sentence was he still wants ACA repealed. So IMO then he needed to go another route. There were other options.
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Well, sure his official policy position on the ACA has always been stupid. And attacking him on that is fair game.

I'm just happy to see he's not wiling to harm his family to stay true to his foolish rhetoric (although I have enjoyed the spate of confused rightwing speculations that "maybe he chose it because it's the worst option for his family and now he can really attack Obamacare!" as if deliberately hurting his family to score a political point is something they desire in a candidate).

Good for him for making the right choice for his family. Now, the fact that he wants to harms others' families to advance his political career--well that is a problem. But at least he's not as terrible as he could be. Somehow that's refreshing.
 
Henrin said:
Services need to be provided. Should people be forced to provide you healthcare against their will?
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How is it against their will? Do you mean that people pay taxes to a government and the government decides to put the taxes back into various things, such as UHC, as forcing people to provide against their will? Come on, that's ridiculous.
 
Dovkan said:
No one is forced to purchase anything, you refuse to address this.
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I haven't refused to address that.

You asked me about costs.
 
Dovkan said:
How is it against their will? Do you mean that people pay taxes to a government and the government decides to put the taxes back into various things, such as UHC, as forcing people to provide against their will? Come on, that's ridiculous.
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You said that healthcare is a human right, not that the government should create yet socialist system supported by compulsory taxation. If healthcare is a right that would mean people have a right to receive healthcare treatment and that other people MUST provide it to them.
 
mbig said:
HE and his wife CAN USE COBRA. Probably cost a few dollar More to Maintain his Principles.
Of course, if she worked for Goldman Sachs (and will again), a few dollars more a month is no biggie!

AGAIN from my post:

"...He could sign up for coverage through COBRA, the law that requires employers to offer their employees health insurance for 18 months after they quit. If Cruz is the very optimistic type, he will need coverage for 20 months — from now until the election next November. So his coverage could, theoretically leave him short.

The other problem with COBRA: it's expensive. Typically, the employer and the employee split the price of an insurance premium. But former employees on COBRA pay the entire cost.

Cruz could buy individual market coverage without using the exchange, although that shopping experience can be messy. Outside of the exchange, there's no central repository of health insurance plans that lets you explore different options. While Healthcare.gov did indeed have a disastrous launch, the website now is actually pretty good for comparing different plans.

Then there's the option of not buying coverage at all and paying a fine. This year, the Cruz family would pay either a $1,300 penalty for 2015 ($325 each for Cruz, his wife, and his two daughters) or 2 percent of their income, whichever is greater. That's likely cheaper than buying an insurance plan but also comes with the massive downside of remaining uninsured...​

So Mr Renegade could have even gone for No coverage too and Filibustered in REAL Life.

Man, you are Wrigid Wright-Wing Wrong on EVERY Issue.
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the only way he could get it is if his wife signed up for it.
if you know anything about cobra it is outrageously expensive. given that she probably had a golden Cadillac plan it would have cost a fortune.
you obviously don't know what you are talking about and just want to rant.

also cobra is only good for like a year and then it drops off.

you also failed to get the fact that he is REQUIRED BY LAW to buy and obamacare plan. all people in congress including Obama himself is required to get an obamacare plan.
no I am just informed about what I am talking about unlike you.
 
Henrin said:
You said that healthcare is a human right not that government should create yet socialist system supported by compulsory taxes. If healthcare is right that would mean people have a right to receive healthcare treatment and that other people MUST provide it to them.
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The best option to provide healthcare to all is to use the government, your talking about others providing it, I don't see how anyone is forced apart from "taxes" being used by the government on various programs.
 
Well its really neither here nor there as he has no chance being that even if his positions and rhetoric were not extreme, we don't elect assholes for president in this country. The last one we elected was Richard Nixon. Above all, Ted Cruz is a first class arrogant asshole thus has no chance. The thing with assholes like Cruz though is they can rationalize anything. Thus instead of paying for COBRA or going out and just buying a plan directly from an insurer, he went on the exchanges to save some money even though he has done nothing but rail against Obamacare since the day he hit the national stage.

The next thing you know he will be going to Canada to buy his prescription drugs.
 
Dovkan said:
The best option to provide healthcare to all is to use the government, your talking about others providing it, I don't see how anyone is forced apart from "taxes" being used by the government on various programs.
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Who do you think provides people with treatment at hospitals? Robots? Seriously, a right to healthcare would include the delivery of that service. Why is that hard for you to understand?
 
Dovkan said:
Really? Look at all of the european countries with UHC, most are doing phenomenal.
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shrug...

YOU look at them. I don't care about them. I live in the US.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Well its really neither here nor there as he has no chance being that even if his positions and rhetoric were not extreme, we don't elect assholes for president in this country. The last one we elected was Richard Nixon. Above all, Ted Cruz is a first class arrogant asshole thus has no chance. The thing with assholes like Cruz though is they can rationalize anything. Thus instead of paying for COBRA or going out and just buying a plan directly from an insurer, he went on the exchanges to save some money even though he has done nothing but rail against Obamacare since the day he hit the national stage.
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Really? Obama is the biggest asshole this country has elected since Clinton, which was the biggest asshole this country elected since Johnson. To be fair though, no one can possibly be a bigger asshole than Johnson.
 
cpwill said:
BREAKING NEWS: Ted Cruz Pays The Lawful Amount of Income Tax, Despite Being In Favor of Flat Tax!

Authorities to Investigate Whether or not the Senator Also Pays FICA, Drives Speed Limit
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Dovkan said:
The best option to provide healthcare to all is to use the government
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If that's your concern, perhaps.

What's wrong with people who can't afford a service not getting it, though?
 
Dovkan said:
The best option to provide healthcare to all is to use the government, your talking about others providing it, I don't see how anyone is forced apart from "taxes" being used by the government on various programs.
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The worst option to provide healthcare...or any other consumer product...to all is to use the government.
 
Henrin said:
Really? Obama is the biggest asshole this country has elected since Clinton, which was the biggest asshole this country elected since Johnson. To be fair though, no one can possibly be a bigger asshole than Johnson.
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You forgot Nixon.
 
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