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Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

The descent was 4,000 ft per minute which is controlled as I understand it by the A320 software on the plane. A small bomb couldn't have gone off decompressing the plane and causing the descent? I'm not sure I can completely discount such an occurrence yet.

Decompression is a reason to descend, but not that low. Such a descent is not automatic, the command to descend must be initiated by the pilots.
 
who said it was a bomb.. but it could still be terrorism

Uhh, the post I was responding to suggested it could be a bomb.

Yes, it could be terrorism but right now there is absolutely no evidence pointing to such that I am aware of.
 
Decompression is a reason to descend, but not that low. Such a descent is not automatic, the command to descend must be initiated by the pilots.

I agree - it doesn't make sense that they descended below the mountain levels and I'm curious as to why they didn't turn for a nearby airfield.
 
I agree - it doesn't make sense that they descended below the mountain levels and I'm curious as to why they didn't turn for a nearby airfield.

I actually had thought of decompression myself when I first saw it on the news. If the pilots responded improperly by commanding a descent and then going for their oxygen masks, they could have passed out and have been unable to recover from the dive. It does require both pilots to make several simultaneous mistakes, though. (failure to follow decompression procedure, and also commanding a descent without giving the autopilot an altitude target to stop at) It would explain the lack of a mayday, at least.

The descent rate seems too steady for any kind of major damage to the aircraft. If they had the control to descend at a constant rate... why didn't they stop?

Dual engine flameout, while incredibly rare, would explain it... but not the lack of radio contact. You'd also expect some attempt to turn to more favorable terrain.
 
I actually had thought of decompression myself when I first saw it on the news. If the pilots responded improperly by commanding a descent and then going for their oxygen masks, they could have passed out and have been unable to recover from the dive. It does require both pilots to make several simultaneous mistakes, though. (failure to follow decompression procedure, and also commanding a descent without giving the autopilot an altitude target to stop at) It would explain the lack of a mayday, at least.

The descent rate seems too steady for any kind of major damage to the aircraft. If they had the control to descend at a constant rate... why didn't they stop?

Dual engine flameout, while incredibly rare, would explain it... but not the lack of radio contact. You'd also expect some attempt to turn to more favorable terrain.

If it were a controlled descent they would have flown away from the Mountains not towards them.

Airbus has taken the pilot out of the equation more than any other large Aircraft manufacturer.

To the point where it led to a perfectly good Airbus 330 being flown into a Ocean with confused pilots trying to figure out what was happening. ( Air France 447 )
 
I actually had thought of decompression myself when I first saw it on the news. If the pilots responded improperly by commanding a descent and then going for their oxygen masks, they could have passed out and have been unable to recover from the dive. It does require both pilots to make several simultaneous mistakes, though. (failure to follow decompression procedure, and also commanding a descent without giving the autopilot an altitude target to stop at) It would explain the lack of a mayday, at least.

The descent rate seems too steady for any kind of major damage to the aircraft. If they had the control to descend at a constant rate... why didn't they stop?

Dual engine flameout, while incredibly rare, would explain it... but not the lack of radio contact. You'd also expect some attempt to turn to more favorable terrain.

What about icing? I saw the news reports saying weather wasn't really a consideration but the A320 has had icing issues in prior disasters, where the sensors iced over and provided incorrect information into the cockpit. But then again they were at cruising speed already.... icing I thought occurs on ascent and descent. Puzzling.
 
Uhh, the post I was responding to suggested it could be a bomb.

Yes, it could be terrorism but right now there is absolutely no evidence pointing to such that I am aware of.

The only evidence is the lack of another explanation for the strange behavior of a plane determinedly flying into a mountain. I saw a pilot on CNN say it must have been a hijacking because no pilot would do that unless it was intentional.
 
If it were a controlled descent they would have flown away from the Mountains not towards them.
Being under control still means you can fly into terrain. In aviation we call that "CFIT." Google it.

Airbus has taken the pilot out of the equation more than any other large Aircraft manufacturer.

To the point where it led to a perfectly good Airbus 330 being flown into a Ocean with confused pilots trying to figure out what was happening. ( Air France 447 )

Your characterization of AF447 isn't remotely accurate.
 
Decompression is a reason to descend, but not that low. Such a descent is not automatic, the command to descend must be initiated by the pilots.

A decent due to decompression would be much much faster also. This appears to be a deliberate act to me. Someone flew the plane into a mountain.
 
What about icing? I saw the news reports saying weather wasn't really a consideration but the A320 has had icing issues in prior disasters, where the sensors iced over and provided incorrect information into the cockpit. But then again they were at cruising speed already.... icing I thought occurs on ascent and descent. Puzzling.

Icing can occur any time the conditions allow. You just need a lot of moisture and cold temperatures. It happens less often at cruising altitudes because it's too cold. The air just doesn't hold much moisture at that temperature. High altitude icing is usually associated with thunderstorms, as those will build up vertically enough to carry moisture to those altitudes. Airliners also have pretty good anti-icing systems, so it takes a lot of ice accumulation to bring one down during cruise. Typically, ice hazards for a jet are going to be during takeoff, climbout, approach, or landing.

Doesn't seem likely, but then again nothing else really does yet either.

The only evidence is the lack of another explanation for the strange behavior of a plane determinedly flying into a mountain. I saw a pilot on CNN say it must have been a hijacking because no pilot would do that unless it was intentional.

Controlled Flight Into Terrain happens often enough in aviation that we have a term for it. CFIT doesn't imply intent. It's usually the pilot not really being aware of his surroundings. Airliners have pretty good equipment designed at preventing this situation, Ground Proximity Warning Systems are meant to alert the pilot to impending terrain problems via a radar altimeter (measures height above the surface) and a terrain database for a "look ahead" capability. However, such systems are not fool proof and diving into rapidly rising terrain could mean the system activates too late.

I'm certainly not ruling out terrorism/hijacking, but there are absolutely other possibilities.
 
A decent due to decompression would be much much faster also. This appears to be a deliberate act to me. Someone flew the plane into a mountain.

Not necessarily. The descent rate was fairly rapid, and once the pilots have their oxygen masks on there's not really a critical need to descend any faster. Especially once you've gotten yourself below 20,000 feet or so, you're not putting anyone at risk by slowing down the descent any more. Passengers too slow to get their masks on may have passed out, but they're not going to die or get brain damage or anything.

Seriously, though, google "CFIT."
 
I hope that the black box will provide clues. Meanwhile, have there been any reports of passengers texting loved ones or making contact with others in some way?
 
I hope that the black box will provide clues. Meanwhile, have there been any reports of passengers texting loved ones or making contact with others in some way?

I doubt cell phone reception would have made this possible.
 
Being under control still means you can fly into terrain. In aviation we call that "CFIT." Google it.



Your characterization of AF447 isn't remotely accurate.

There's " terrain " and then there's a Mountain range.

Seems to me a controlled descent would mean some attempt to avoid crashing head on into a Mountain range.

And AF447 went down due to pilot error.
 
There's " terrain " and then there's a Mountain range.

Seems to me a controlled descent would mean some attempt to avoid crashing head on into a Mountain range.
There may well have been a last-second attempt to avoid a crash after the GPWS activated. Such a thing wouldn't show up on the radar track.

Mountain ranges make CFIT more likely, not less.


And AF447 went down due to pilot error.
A radically different characterization than before. Also oversimplified. AF447 was icing conditions causing a malfunction of the airspeed indicators, causing the autopilot to disconnect and erroneous, conflicting data to be presented to the pilots. The pilots pitched the aircraft up and caused an aerodynamic stall, which they were unable to recover from.
 
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I doubt cell phone reception would have made this possible.

Because of the mountains? (I know nothing about any of this.)
 
There may well have been a last-second attempt to avoid a crash after the GPWS activated. Such a thing wouldn't show up on the radar track.

Mountain ranges make CFIT more likely, not less.



A radically different characterization than before. Also oversimplified.

Wait, pilot confusion that led to that Airbus being flown into the Ocean was my initial statement and also qualifies as pilot error.

I dont see the distinctions between the two probably because they don't exist.
 
Because of the mountains? (I know nothing about any of this.)

Right. Cell reception is already near-impossible in-flight, let alone in a remote, mountainous area. Although I don't know how many cell phone towers are in the Alps.

Wait, pilot confusion that led to that Airbus being flown into the Ocean was my initial statement and also qualifies as pilot error.

I dont see the distinctions between the two probably because they don't exist.

You implied it had something to do with Airbus "removing the pilot from the equation." This is not the case. The pilots responded incorrectly to an unusual situation, but this had nothing to do with the aircraft's automation.
 
Right. Cell reception is already near-impossible in-flight, let alone in a remote, mountainous area. Although I don't know how many cell phone towers are in the Alps.



You implied it had something to do with Airbus "removing the pilot from the equation." This is not the case. The pilots responded incorrectly to an unusual situation, but this had nothing to do with the aircraft's automation.

Bull !

You're not the only person with ties to the industry or that has knowledge of how these carriers work.

I still have my AnP license from when I worked for a major American carrrier 20 years ago and.

The Airbus 447 Autopilot disconnected after erroneous airspeed indications.

The pilots reacted incorrectly and put the plane into the drink
 
Im planning a trip in a month or two and stuff like this always scares me. :(

if god decides when you will die you die when the time comes .dont fear
 
Bull !

You're not the only person with ties to the industry or that has knowledge of how these carriers work.

I still have my AnP license from when I worked for a major American carrrier 20 years ago and.

The Airbus 447 Autopilot disconnected after erroneous airspeed indications.

The pilots reacted incorrectly and put the plane into the drink

Yes, and that reaction didn't have anything to do with automation.
 
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