• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Out of Yemen, U.S. is Hobbled in Terror Fight

Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Montecresto said:
Lol, nobody denies the nationality of fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers.



Further information: September 11 attacks
The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia.[1] The others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon. The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with three or four "muscle hijackers" who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.

Hijackers in the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Six years too late, George W. Bush has finally acknowledged that 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers were citizens of the U.S. ally, Saudi Arabia.

Page 2: Exclusive: President Bush in Saudi Arabia - ABC News
Click to expand...

Neither you nor anyone else knows, or ever will know, the identity of the nineteen hijackers. That includes President Bush and your unknown Wikipedia authors. One of Osama bin Laden's goals was to turn gullible Americans against Saudi Arabia. In your case, apparently, not much turning was needed.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

matchlight said:
Neither you nor anyone else knows, or ever will know, the identity of the nineteen hijackers. That includes President Bush and your unknown Wikipedia authors. One of Osama bin Laden's goals was to turn gullible Americans against Saudi Arabia. In your case, apparently, not much turning was needed.
Click to expand...

Lol. You're alone. And SA has never had my support. Pity they have yours.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Sorry for responding late, as the situation is changing by the hour.
cpwill said:
True, but capability to project force and competing fronts is a reality for them that I think you are underappreciating.
Click to expand...
It can certainly outmatch Iran's capability to project. The IRGC is already very much stretched into Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq, so Maj. Gen. Soleimani will have a tough time managing things in a fourth country. Unlike the coalition, Iran definitely cannot send regular troops to Yemen. As far as Saudi Arabia being outstretched, they aren't committing so much resources to either ISIS or Bahrain to seriously impede their intervention into Yemen.

Also, the anti-Houthi coalition is much broader than even I thought it would be. It includes nine countries already in its air campaign, and may additionally include Pakistan as part of a ground offensive.
:lol: and what about our foreign policy for the last few years makes you think that we will actually do this? :lol:
Click to expand...
What makes you think we wouldn't? We were basically the air force for the NTC in Libya, and they weren't established US allies like Saudi Arabia is. We've continued to be a strong partner with Israel for all practical purposes, despite the petty squabbling that's going on right now. This is a great opportunity to hand Iran an international embarrassment, especially considering that the Houthis' success is mostly due to the complicity of Saleh, who was previously their hated enemy.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Montecresto said:
Saudi Arabia is no better than Iran. SA, is every bit as big a sponsor of terror as Iran. SA's treatment of women, gays and others is dismal. Wealthy elites in SA helped finance the 9/11 terror attacks, and indeed, fifteen of the attackers were Saudi. Saudi Arabia suppressed/helped suppress the Arab Spring protests, with US blessing in Bahrain, because that was not in their interests. So, an expanded Iranian influence in the region could be no worse than SA's.
Click to expand...

My support for Saudi Arabia's intervention in Yemen hardly means that I admire or condone their system of government, or their suppression of the Bahraini revolution. The sponsorship of al-Qaeda and ISIS by rich Saudis is, of course, something that should be addressed by the United States. In this case, however, Saudi Arabia is acting to support the legitimate, democratizing government of Yemen against fanatical Houthi insurgents and the former autocrat that they have allied themselves with.

And since when were you supportive of the Arab Spring? :lol: You've opposed it in Egypt, Libya, and Syria! Funny how you only condemn the repression of a popular revolt when it is seemingly conducted in favor of US interests.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

MadLib said:
My support for Saudi Arabia's intervention in Yemen hardly means that I admire or condone their system of government, or their suppression of the Bahraini revolution. The sponsorship of al-Qaeda and ISIS by rich Saudis is, of course, something that should be addressed by the United States. In this case, however, Saudi Arabia is acting to support the legitimate, democratizing government of Yemen against fanatical Houthi insurgents and the former autocrat that they have allied themselves with.

And since when were you supportive of the Arab Spring? :lol: You've opposed it in Egypt, Libya, and Syria! Funny how you only condemn the repression of a popular revolt when it is seemingly conducted in favor of US interests.
Click to expand...

When did I say I was supportive of the Arab Spring? Quote me!!!! What I have said is that hypocritical US policy has supported Arab Spring in one place and denied it in another. The United States should have stayed the **** out of the Middle East and it wouldn't be in the foul shape it's in. Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad did a far better job at containment than the US has. But then that's because containment, peace, security nor humanitarianism have ever been the true US objective. And the mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, self absorbed, scared, selfish, and arrogant Americans that continue to advocate American military adventurism, hegemony, interference, influence, exploitation, and war, well, they aren't helping matters either.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Montecresto said:
And the mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, self absorbed, scared, selfish, and arrogant Americans that continue to advocate American military adventurism, hegemony, interference, influence, exploitation, and war, well, they aren't helping matters either.
Click to expand...
Neither are those who support Russian military adventurism, hegemony, interference, exploitation, and war in Ukraine.

As I stated to you previously, it is either wrong at all times and places, or it is not. You can't have it both ways.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

matchlight said:
Neither you nor anyone else knows, or ever will know, the identity of the nineteen hijackers. That includes President Bush and your unknown Wikipedia authors. One of Osama bin Laden's goals was to turn gullible Americans against Saudi Arabia. In your case, apparently, not much turning was needed.
Click to expand...

LOLWHUT. If you believe the majority of the 9/11 hijackers werent citizens of Saudi Arabia then what were they? Let me guess, I suppose you dont believe Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi national either right? :lamo
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

MadLib said:
My support for Saudi Arabia's intervention in Yemen hardly means that I admire or condone their system of government, or their suppression of the Bahraini revolution. The sponsorship of al-Qaeda and ISIS by rich Saudis is, of course, something that should be addressed by the United States. In this case, however, Saudi Arabia is acting to support the legitimate, democratizing government of Yemen against fanatical Houthi insurgents and the former autocrat that they have allied themselves with.

And since when were you supportive of the Arab Spring? :lol: You've opposed it in Egypt, Libya, and Syria! Funny how you only condemn the repression of a popular revolt when it is seemingly conducted in favor of US interests.
Click to expand...


Mornin Madlib. :2wave: Oh yeah....you called that Right. With him he even blamed the US for our beginning. He always looks to blame the US and rarely ever stands up for the US. Course he also blames both parties. But more so any from the Right.

That's not to say he wont condemn the left.....but it will be a very short sentence and then its back to bashing the US, Bush Jr and Republicans. Even if we aren't involved nor start the problem.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Simpleχity;1064466753 said:
Neither are those who support Russian military adventurism, hegemony, interference, exploitation, and war in Ukraine.

As I stated to you previously, it is either wrong at all times and places, or it is not. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...

You may have accused the Soviet Union of all that. It collapsed. What we've seen Russia doing is responding to US/Western intrigue now for a couple decades. Regardless of how you characterize it.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Montecresto said:
You may have accused the Soviet Union of all that. It collapsed. What we've seen Russia doing is responding to US/Western intrigue now for a couple decades. Regardless of how you characterize it.
Click to expand...

Indeed, comrade. The provocations from Washington have only continued. The great, peace-loving Soviet Union was constantly forced to respond to aggressive intrigues and ventures by the capitalist war lovers against world peace and brotherhood.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

matchlight said:
Indeed, comrade. The provocations from Washington have only continued. The great, peace-loving Soviet Union was constantly forced to respond to aggressive intrigues and ventures by the capitalist war lovers against world peace and brotherhood.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the Russian federation see!
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Montecresto said:
You may have accused the Soviet Union of all that. It collapsed. What we've seen Russia doing is responding to US/Western intrigue now for a couple decades. Regardless of how you characterize it.
Click to expand...
From your posts in another thread, you supported the right of Russia to intervene in Ukraine ... which is a sovereign and independent state.

It is sheer hypocrisy to castigate US hegemony and militarism while supporting Russian hegemony and militarism.

As I plainly told you then, you can't have it both ways and I will point out such hypocrisy to you again and again whenever the issue surfaces.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Montecresto said:
You may have accused the Soviet Union of all that. It collapsed. What we've seen Russia doing is responding to US/Western intrigue now for a couple decades. Regardless of how you characterize it.
Click to expand...

No what we have seen since the fascist Putin has come into office is a resurgence Russian imperialistic wars of expansion, conquest, and ethnic cleansing, this is an undeniable fact.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

matchlight said:
Because it was the work of Muslim jihadists who hate the United States. They also hate Jews and Israel, and western civilization in general. Muhammad Navab-Safavi, Ruhollah Khomeinei and their followers were involved in Islamist terrorism in Iran well before 1953. If I had more time, I would quote some of their stunningly violent statements callng for the faithful to shed the blood of infidels.

Evidently you would like to blame the U.S. for the blossoming of Islamist jihad. What you are claiming is just a variation on the claim of Mr. Obama's longtime preacher, Jeremiah "God damn America" Wright, that this country brought 9/11 on itself: "America, your chickens have come home to roost." But in fact jihadists' hatred of all things secular and western, and of Jews, is rooted not in anything the West ever did to them, but in the most orthodox documents of Islam itself
Click to expand...
The people I blame for Islamist jihad is Islamist Jihad, I'm just not going to ignore the fact our intervention into different countries and Western countries intervention in general have definitely helped paved the way for their rise.

I think it is because the people who call it that are either childishly naive or, more likely, hope to inflame others who are against the U.S. It's generally assumed--and has been for a very long time--that one important reason nation's maintain embassies is to collect useful information about developments in the host nation. Any country's embassy anywhere could be considered a "spy den."
Click to expand...
That is true, but there's no doubt that there have been some large CIA operations ran in Tehran out of that embassy, including operation Ajax

You may choose to believe what Muslim jihadists say. I assume they are all damned liars, since their religion, at least in their literal interpretation, approves of lying to deceive infidels. The U.S. should have been giving the Islamist murderers in Teheran very good reasons to fear being overthrown, for a long time now.
Click to expand...
Not even sure how to answer this. You are pretty much doing exactly what you claim they do. You consider anything a lie.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

This is why Oblabla won The Nobel Peace Prize, as ever since he took office promising peace in the ME there has been chaos. But he is black so all is forgiven. Sing some Al Green prez while millions die under YOUR watch.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Simpleχity;1064469988 said:
From your posts in another thread, you supported the right of Russia to intervene in Ukraine ... which is a sovereign and independent state.

It is sheer hypocrisy to castigate US hegemony and militarism while supporting Russian hegemony and militarism.

As I plainly told you then, you can't have it both ways and I will point out such hypocrisy to you again and again whenever the issue surfaces.
Click to expand...

Well, first of all, then neither can you! I'll turn that back around. Excusing US military adventurism, and hegemony, would mean you'd have to excuse Russian. But I disagree with you that that's what Russia's response to US/Western intrigue in Kiev the fall of 2013 is.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

face said:
No what we have seen since the fascist Putin has come into office is a resurgence Russian imperialistic wars of expansion, conquest, and ethnic cleansing, this is an undeniable fact.
Click to expand...

No, you're wrong.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

iliveonramen said:
The people I blame for Islamist jihad is Islamist Jihad, I'm just not going to ignore the fact our intervention into different countries and Western countries intervention in general have definitely helped paved the way for their rise.
Click to expand...

I don't think intervention by this or any other western nation has had much to do with jihadism. But I know the claim has been a staple of anti-American propaganda for years. Various communist America-haters here used a variant of it to blame this country for 9/11. Ward Churchill, a Colorado professor, called the people murdered in the World Trade Center "little Eichmanns." By that he meant they deserved to die for the crime of helping the wicked capitalist system function, just as Adolf Eichmann helped the Nazi death camps function by making the trains that brought the victims there run efficiently.

Mr. Obama's preacher of twenty years, Jeremiah "God Damn America" Wright, joined this shameful chorus by saying 9/11 showed America's "chickens have come home to roost." He meant that the country he hates somehow brought the worst attack since Pearl Harbor on itself. He might has well have said women are to blame for being raped because of the clothes they wear. And there were others of their ilk.

That is true, but there's no doubt that there have been some large CIA operations ran in Tehran out of that embassy, including operation Ajax
Click to expand...

The Cold War was just that--a war. The allies did many extremely unpleasant things during WWII, also, including dismembering and immolating hundreds of thousands of civilians with bombs. Any complaints the regime that rules Iran may have about using embassies for covert operations rings hollow. Iran does that at least as much as other nations.

You consider anything a lie.
Click to expand...

I also would have considered any claims Josef Goebbels' propaganda apparatus had put out to be lies, because I know its whole purpose was to deceive in any way that served the cause of Nazism. When a regime has proven repeatedly that it lies as a deliberate policy, there is no reason to believe any claim it makes, and good reason not to.
 
Last edited:
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

matchlight said:
I don't think intervention by this or any other western nation has had much to do with jihadism. But I know the claim has been a staple of anti-American propaganda for years. Various communist America-haters here used a variant of it to blame this country for 9/11. Ward Churchill, a Colorado professor, called the people murdered in the World Trade Center "little Eichmanns." By that he meant they deserved to die for the crime of helping the wicked capitalist system function, just as Adolf Eichmann helped the Nazi death camps function by making the trains that brought the victims there run efficiently. Mr. Obama's preacher of twenty years, Jeremiah "God Damn America" Wright, joined the chorus by saying 9/11 showed America's "chickens have come home to roost." And there others of their ilk.
Click to expand...

Oh...so anybody that believes the US staging coups or taking a direct intervention in foreign countries is anti-American? You can believe that overthrowing regimes or using a heavy hand in foreign countries doesn't have an impact and has nothing to do with the rise of Jihadism...but thinking that it does doesn't transform you to being anti-American. The anti-west viewpoint in the arab world is based on actual history that isn't very long ago. If someone helped stage a coup in the US I'm guessing that would have a large impact on your political/world views.

The Cold War was just that--a war. The allies did many extremely unpleasant things during WWII, also, including dismembering and immolating hundreds of thousands of civilians with bombs. Any complaints the regime that rules Iran may have about using embassies for covert operations rings hollow. Iran does that at least as much as other nations.
Click to expand...
Sure...as I mentioned I'm not judging the actions, I'm just stating that those actions have consequences. Just because Iran does the same thing doesn't mean they wouldn't be worried about the US staging a counter coup when the Ayatollah took over, in fact, the fact they play by the same rulebook just makes them more attuned to the idea of a foreign power intervening in a foreign country.

I also would have considered any claims Josef Goebbels' propaganda apparatus had put out to be lies, because I know its whole purpose was to deceive in any way that served the cause of Nazism. When a regime has proven repeatedly that it lies as a deliberate policy, there is no reason to believe any claim it makes, and good reason not to
Click to expand...
Then what government do you trust?
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

rhinefire said:
This is why Oblabla won The Nobel Peace Prize, as ever since he took office promising peace in the ME there has been chaos. But he is black so all is forgiven. Sing some Al Green prez while millions die under YOUR watch.
Click to expand...


OBLABLA??? :shock: .....
thinking.gif
.....
icon_thumright.gif
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

iliveonramen said:
The anti-west viewpoint in the arab world is based on actual history that isn't very long ago.
Click to expand...

Of course I don't believe that. The hatred and intolerance of the West and of Jews seen in some Muslims is rooted directly in the most orthodox Islamic texts. It is part and parcel of Islam, as fundamentalists interpret that religion. The claim that this is largely something of our own creation is convenient for people who either share these bastards' loathing of the U.S. or for some other reason don't want to resist them by force, because it suggests it is our resisting them itself that is the problem.

I no more believe the U.S. brought the jihadism we see on itself than I believe women bring rape upon themselves by wearing short skirts. I am proud of my country, and I will never make excuses for any Islamist savage who means to harm Americans. The right response to these cruel, primitive sons of whores is to kill as many of them as possible before they can kill us, and to use any weapons we have that would do that most effectively.
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

matchlight said:
Of course I don't believe that. The hatred and intolerance of the West and of Jews seen in some Muslims is rooted directly in the most orthodox Islamic texts. It is part and parcel of Islam, as fundamentalists interpret that religion. The claim that this is largely something of our own creation is convenient for people who either share these bastards' loathing of the U.S. or for some other reason don't want to resist them by force, because it suggests it is our resisting them itself that is the problem.
Click to expand...
Or...people that genially believe that US involvement creates unintended consequences so should only be used sparingly and under extreme circumstances. I know that view isn't as easy to discount as the extreme views you seem to be attributing to people but I'm sure what I typed is much more widespread than the small minorities you seem to be talking about.

I no more believe the U.S. brought the jihadism we see on itself than I believe women bring rape upon themselves by wearing short skirts. I am proud of my country, and I will never make excuses for any Islamist savage who means to harm Americans. The right response to these cruel, primitive sons of whores is to kill as many of them as possible before they can kill us, and to use any weapons we have that would do that most effectively.
Click to expand...
So apparently if you point out that US policy isn't always 100% successful and results in unintended consequences you believe women deserve to be raped, you hate America, and you make excuses for Islmaist to want to harm America?
 
Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

Gotta love the CON game... comparing our keeping petty thugs and tyrants in power overseas to short skirts on girls... :doh

The world watches as the biggest 'democracy' installs and maintains a series of thugs across the globe to 'secure our national interests' while the people have no one but terrorists to turn to. Little wonder there is blowback. Our government/corporate leaders prefer to deal with one long term leader than a series of governments lead by constantly changing philosophies (as many complain about democracies for that very reason)

Far from being hobbled, what is happening and needed to happen decades ago is REGIONAL forces police their own. We are fools to take sides in the Sunni/****e riff. This Yemen thing is for the Arabs in the region to settle- Saudi interests lie in keeping ****e rebels out of Yemen AND ending Sunni radicalism. Saudis can finance the rest of an Arab League and an army to police their own.

Course Israel won't like a militarily strong Arab League- might be time to settle their issues in the occupied territories and make a lasting peace so the Iranian financed terrorists lose popular support.

Cons love to blame Obama for everything, but the fact is BushII showed the Arabs and the world how easily exhausted we become in anything more than an Island Adventure. BushII showed the Arabs how little we understand anyone not wearing jeans, drinking Starbucks and eating a Whopper. Time for us to stop pretending we know all and can make the world bow to our will and recast itself in our image.

Now back to our regularly scheduled CON rants and ravings.... :peace
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom