• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

Montecresto said:
You should stop using your broad brush on Iran.

The Iran We Don't See: A Tour of the Country Where People Love Americans

Probably no country in the world is more mischaracterized in Western eyes than Iran. Most Americans' perceptions of Iran are limited to images of President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad delivering anti-American speeches and crowds chanting "Death to America!"

The Iran We Don't See: A Tour of the Country Where People Love Americans

Americans are more liked by Iranians than the citizens of any other country in the Middle East. It's really jacked up that so many Americans seek to sabotage that.
Click to expand...

_____________________________________


Another example of the untold fondness that Iranians have for Westerners:


“Iran is the most charming country on Earth”
John Simpson: Iran is the most charming country on Earth - Telegraph

EXCERPT "What you would encounter is a genuine delight to see you: a distinctly old-fashioned affection for westerners, who have vanished from everyday life in Iran. Eating in a Tehran restaurant can sometimes be a trial: so many people want to greet you and indeed pay for your meal."CONTINUED


The British author (John Simpson) of the same article relates his experience at a "Death to Britain / Margret Thatcher” demonstration.


EXCERPT "The crowd pushed and shoved, and shouted “Marg bar Tacher” – “death to Thatcher”. I asked the cameraman to stand on a low wall and film me as I walked through the angry demonstrators. “I really don’t think you should do this, John,” he said, with a troubled look at the mob. .....

I weaved my way through the crowd, smiling and explaining that I was a Brit, and they opened up a pathway for me, shaking hands and bowing.

I finally reached the ringmaster, a professional demonstrator who was beating his chest, the spittle shooting from his mouth in his anti-British fervour. “Welcome, welcome to Iran, sir,” he said, and actually kissed my hand. It went down well on the news that night, I promise you." CONTINUED


My own daily experiences with the Iranian people were equally pleasant.
 
US Conservative said:
Can't trust teh jooz, eh?
Click to expand...

I can certainly trust that they wont vote for any right wing doofuss the GOP fronts next year. So it looks like its you who can't trust them.
 
US Conservative said:
Just more evidence of how incredibly naive the left is. How long is it going to take for you to figure out what kind of people are leading Iran, and working quickly towards a nuke that our OWN President has admitted they now have the capability to do?

For 6 years Obama has stood by.
Click to expand...

What about Israel? :roll:
 
B'smith said:
_____________________________________


Another example of the untold fondness that Iranians have for Westerners:


“Iran is the most charming country on Earth”
John Simpson: Iran is the most charming country on Earth - Telegraph

EXCERPT "What you would encounter is a genuine delight to see you: a distinctly old-fashioned affection for westerners, who have vanished from everyday life in Iran. Eating in a Tehran restaurant can sometimes be a trial: so many people want to greet you and indeed pay for your meal."CONTINUED


The British author (John Simpson) of the same article relates his experience at a "Death to Britain / Margret Thatcher” demonstration.


EXCERPT "The crowd pushed and shoved, and shouted “Marg bar Tacher” – “death to Thatcher”. I asked the cameraman to stand on a low wall and film me as I walked through the angry demonstrators. “I really don’t think you should do this, John,” he said, with a troubled look at the mob. .....

I weaved my way through the crowd, smiling and explaining that I was a Brit, and they opened up a pathway for me, shaking hands and bowing.

I finally reached the ringmaster, a professional demonstrator who was beating his chest, the spittle shooting from his mouth in his anti-British fervour. “Welcome, welcome to Iran, sir,” he said, and actually kissed my hand. It went down well on the news that night, I promise you." CONTINUED


My own daily experiences with the Iranian people were equally pleasant.
Click to expand...


Iran shoots women who dare protest in the face. Spare me the tourist brochure.
 
US Conservative said:
I know they are going to fail, Obama has said they are most likely to fail-and even if they don't I dont trust Iran.

Diplomacy is generally preferable to military conflict-but not if its just a dog and pony show without substance.
Click to expand...

So you're advocating military conflict. Obama didn't say they are most likely to fail. Obama has repeated endlessly that any deal will exclude Iran from having nuclear weapons, and ensure a robust verification process. So, if an agreement is reached, then there is nothing to worry about, because we know that it includes those two bedrocks. If those two bedrocks can't be a part of an agreement, then there will be none, and we'll move on to the next step, whether that's increased sanctions as some would like, or military conflict as you would like.
 
Montecresto said:
So you're advocating military conflict. Obama didn't say they are most likely to fail. Obama has repeated endlessly that any deal will exclude Iran from having nuclear weapons, and ensure a robust verification process. So, if an agreement is reached, then there is nothing to worry about, because we know that it includes those two bedrocks. If those two bedrocks can't be a part of an agreement, then there will be none, and we'll move on to the next step, whether that's increased sanctions as some would like, or military conflict as you would like.
Click to expand...

You dont even know the basic facts of this issue...
Obama: There's A Less Than 50-50 Chance Of A Nuclear Deal With Iran : The Two-Way : NPR


And I wont advocate a bad deal because its a bad deal-in a "deal" BOTH sides benefit.
 
US Conservative said:
Iran shoots women who dare protest in the face. Spare me the tourist brochure.
Click to expand...



Why can't you respond without the sarcasm & simply admit that you don't like a country to which you've never been, know virtually nothing about & dislike its people whom you've never met?

In protests everywhere, protesters occasionally get shot & worse, especially in Israel.

Have you ever spent an extended time, by yourself in a completely different culture? Any different culture?

In the Islamic world, your host insists on paying for everything (meals, just tea etc). It is more polite to spit in his face than reach in your pocket to pay. It's a cultural thing.

On the way, he will take your hand & hold it to show that you are his guest, under his protection. If you relied on photos & U Tubes, you would mistaken assume all the men were gay. Right?

In the marketplaces, people are almost insulted if you don't haggle over the price of goods. It has nothing to do the price so much as taking the time to communicate/socialize with them.

I'm afraid that the dislike/hatred/distrust you have of the Iranians is more of an indicator of the media bias to which you & like minded individuals have been extensively exposed than realities about the Islamic world, Iran & the Iranians.


For the record, I wouldn't want to live in an Islamic country but I don't think that cultural differences preclude trusting, mutually beneficial & friendly relationships.
______________
This is about the author who wrote the article I cited.:


John Simpson (journalist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Simpson_(journalist)‎
EXCERPT “... He has reported from more than 120 countries, including thirty war zones,”CONTINUED



“Iran is the most charming country on Earth”
John Simpson: Iran is the most charming country on Earth - Telegraph






Thanks
 
B'smith said:
Why can't you respond without the sarcasm & simply admit that you don't like a country to which you've never been, know virtually nothing about & dislike its people whom you've never met?

In protests everywhere, protesters occasionally get shot & worse, especially in Israel.

Have you ever spent an extended time, by yourself in a completely different culture? Any different culture?

In the Islamic world, your host insists on paying for everything (meals, just tea etc). It is more polite to spit in his face than reach in your pocket to pay. It's a cultural thing.

On the way, he will take your hand & hold it to show that you are his guest, under his protection. If you relied on photos & U Tubes, you would mistaken assume all the men were gay. Right?

In the marketplaces, people are almost insulted if you don't haggle over the price of goods. It has nothing to do the price so much as taking the time to communicate/socialize with them.

I'm afraid that the dislike/hatred/distrust you have of the Iranians is more of an indicator of the media bias to which you & like minded individuals have been extensively exposed than realities about the Islamic world, Iran & the Iranians.


For the record, I wouldn't want to live in an Islamic country but I don't think that cultural differences preclude trusting, mutually beneficial & friendly relationships.
______________
This is about the author who wrote the article I cited.:


John Simpson (journalist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Simpson_(journalist)‎
EXCERPT “... He has reported from more than 120 countries, including thirty war zones,”CONTINUED



“Iran is the most charming country on Earth”
John Simpson: Iran is the most charming country on Earth - Telegraph






Thanks
Click to expand...

Ive never had ebola, I have no desire to get it. And I have travelled, but never to Iran.

My parents met in Kuwait and they have both lived in Egypt and Kuwait, and spent time elsewhere.

We still have many family friends from the ME.

I grew up with people from the ME.

I work with people from all over the world including the ME.

So, I have an idea.
 
Montecresto said:
Only in your mind. Lord knows though that the Israeli and American right both have sought at every turn to sabotage the talks.
Click to expand...



RE: TREASON VIA "THE LOGAN ACT"


At this point, Obama has a petition of over 155,000 signatures (and counting) requesting that charges be filed against the "Felonious Forty Seven" giving him additional leverage & an indication of growing support




“150,000 call for treason charge for US senators”
150,000 call for treason charge for US senators - The China Post

EXCERPT “WASHINGTON -- More than 155,000 people by Wednesday had signed a petition to the White House urging charges be filed against 47 U.S. Republican senators who they say committed “treasonous” offenses by writing to Iran's leaders about ongoing nuclear negotiations.

The White House has said it responds to such petitions when they reach the 100,000-signature threshold, providing President Barack Obama's administration with another opportunity to slam a letter that it considers inflammatory.

According to the petition, the 47 senators “committed a treasonous offense when they decided to violate the Logan Act, a 1799 law which forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments.”CONTINUED




This is a brief definition of "The Logan Act"

EXERPT: the Logan Act. This act makes it a felony for an American citizen “without authority of the United States” to interact “with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof” with the intent to influence that government’s behavior on any disputes with the United States.”CONTINUED

FROM: “Rep. Eric Cantor violates the Logan*Act”
http://progressivenetwork.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/rep-eric-cantor-violates-the-logan-act/

______________________

Thanks
 
US Conservative said:
Ive never had ebola, I have no desire to get it. And I have travelled, but never to Iran.

My parents met in Kuwait and they have both lived in Egypt and Kuwait, and spent time elsewhere.

We still have many family friends from the ME.

I grew up with people from the ME.

I work with people from all over the world including the ME.

So, I have an idea.
Click to expand...


____________________________________________
Please stop with the disingenuous sarcasm Re: Iran = ebola. It might be good for "Points" with Third Graders & Xenophobes but does nothing to support the argument that Iran doesn't deserve a nuclear program.

Thanks for responding but I asked if YOU had spent an extended (6 months + or so) by yourself in a completely different culture. Knowing people who have parachuted is not nearly as instructive as experiencing it yourself.

For example, I was in the Islamic world 10 - 11 months hitch hiking, walking, Railroad etc & existing on the kindness of strangers

Being in the M.E. etc to watch how Iranians etc communicate helps to understand what they mean & don't mean. Iranians are not the same as Iraqis, Syrians etc.

When a merchant says his "family will starve" if he doesn't get a higher price, he doesn't mean it, knows that you don't believe it & doesn't expect you to believe that his family will literally "starve. It's just the standard marketplace rhetoric of the different culture.

The same thing applies to the standard, hyperbolic rhetoric of the Iranian Revolution when the Ayatollah says "Death to ______". He doesn't mean it literally & doesn't expect his audience to believe that he means it literally.

Another cultural difference is the notion of "Private Property. There is the tradition of extensive generosity & kindness to travelers in much of the Islamic world/M.E. The Bedouin & others for example keep a sheltered area maintained with water, fruit, bread for traveling strangers to sleep, eat etc.

In the U.S., doing the same thing is considered a crime.

Neither culture is "Evil" for these cultural differences but because of them, extensive negotiations are more essential than between similar cultures.

There is no rational alternative.


Thanks
 
B'smith said:
____________________________________________
Please stop with the disingenuous sarcasm Re: Iran = ebola. It might be good for "Points" with Third Graders & Xenophobes but does nothing to support the argument that Iran doesn't deserve a nuclear program.

Thanks for responding but I asked if YOU had spent an extended (6 months + or so) by yourself in a completely different culture. Knowing people who have parachuted is not nearly as instructive as experiencing it yourself.

For example, I was in the Islamic world 10 - 11 months hitch hiking, walking, Railroad etc & existing on the kindness of strangers

Being in the M.E. etc to watch how Iranians etc communicate helps to understand what they mean & don't mean. Iranians are not the same as Iraqis, Syrians etc.

When a merchant says his "family will starve" if he doesn't get a higher price, he doesn't mean it, knows that you don't believe it & doesn't expect you to believe that his family will literally "starve. It's just the standard marketplace rhetoric of the different culture.

The same thing applies to the standard, hyperbolic rhetoric of the Iranian Revolution when the Ayatollah says "Death to ______". He doesn't mean it literally & doesn't expect his audience to believe that he means it literally.

Another cultural difference is the notion of "Private Property. There is the tradition of extensive generosity & kindness to travelers in much of the Islamic world/M.E. The Bedouin & others for example keep a sheltered area maintained with water, fruit, bread for traveling strangers to sleep, eat etc.

In the U.S., doing the same thing is considered a crime.

Neither culture is "Evil" for these cultural differences but because of them, extensive negotiations are more essential than between similar cultures.

There is no rational alternative.


Thanks
Click to expand...

You can't simply look at one aspect (kindness to others) while dismissing others ("Islamic cultural police", repression-remember there are no gays in Iran, either because they dont exist or are dangling from cranes, protesters being shot in the face).

I know some great Persians, we have the largest population nearby outside of the ME, the food alone is awesome-but the other parts? Not so good. Besides, its not anything against Iranians personally-but rather the brutal theocratic dictatorship that runs the nation.
 
US Conservative said:
You can't simply look at one aspect (kindness to others) while dismissing others ("Islamic cultural police", repression-remember there are no gays in Iran, either because they dont exist or are dangling from cranes, protesters being shot in the face).

I know some great Persians, we have the largest population nearby outside of the ME, the food alone is awesome-but the other parts? Not so good. Besides, its not anything against Iranians personally-but rather the brutal theocratic dictatorship that runs the nation.
Click to expand...


______________________

The issue/topic here is Iran's right to have a nuclear program which is undeniable and has nothing to do with its treatment of Gays. Iran's support for Hezbollah is a frequent excuse yet is considered a "Terrorist" group by only 3 countries because of its Humanitarian & political work.

I agree that the persecution of Gays is reprehensible however the "Conservative" / Right Wing's* concern for Gays only seems to blossom when it comes to Iran.

If brutality of innocent civilians were the measure of a country's right to nukes, Israel & N. Korea should have had their nuclear arsenals confiscated decades ago.

In 2014, Israel executed/killed more innocent civilians than in any year since 1967 and thousands more than Iran & yet is America's greatest Aid recipient +.

N. Korea is a far greater nuclear threat to S. Korea, Japan etc but isn't getting nearly the pressure, deadlines, or spotlight as Iran

Why?

The egregious double-standard applied to Iran is not lost on the rest of the world which will increase tensions in the Region & place America at odds with Russia, China & most of the world militarily, financially & diplomatically.

There is really no legitimate reason for US interests to deny Iran its right. Attempting to defend the indefensible is terrible for US security, future diplomatic efforts & overall interests.

I care too much for this country & those defending it to jeopardize both for another fatally flawed injustice.


Thanks



*I'm simply "None of the Above" Re: Political stance
 
B'smith said:
______________________

The issue/topic here is Iran's right to have a nuclear program which is undeniable and has nothing to do with its treatment of Gays. Iran's support for Hezbollah is a frequent excuse yet is considered a "Terrorist" group by only 3 countries because of its Humanitarian & political work.

I agree that the persecution of Gays is reprehensible however the "Conservative" / Right Wing's* concern for Gays only seems to blossom when it comes to Iran.

If brutality of innocent civilians were the measure of a country's right to nukes, Israel & N. Korea should have had their nuclear arsenals confiscated decades ago.

In 2014, Israel executed/killed more innocent civilians than in any year since 1967 and thousands more than Iran & yet is America's greatest Aid recipient +.

N. Korea is a far greater nuclear threat to S. Korea, Japan etc but isn't getting nearly the pressure, deadlines, or spotlight as Iran

Why?

The egregious double-standard applied to Iran is not lost on the rest of the world which will increase tensions in the Region & place America at odds with Russia, China & most of the world militarily, financially & diplomatically.

There is really no legitimate reason for US interests to deny Iran its right. Attempting to defend the indefensible is terrible for US security, future diplomatic efforts & overall interests.

I care too much for this country & those defending it to jeopardize both for another fatally flawed injustice.


Thanks



*I'm simply "None of the Above" Re: Political stance
Click to expand...

Why should I care about Iran's alleged 'right' to a nuclear program? This isn't kindergarten. We use more nuanced metrics than mere equity. Raising a hue and cry about 'fairness' is silly.
 
Sherman123 said:
Why should I care about Iran's alleged 'right' to a nuclear program? This isn't kindergarten. We use more nuanced metrics than mere equity. Raising a hue and cry about 'fairness' is silly.
Click to expand...
_______________________
Remember the phrase: "No Justice, No Peace"

If you'd ever been involved in the "fruits" of unjust policy (aka War) you'd understand.




So, why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear program in your mind?
 
B'smith said:
_______________________
Remember the phrase: "No Justice, No Peace"

If you'd ever been involved in the "fruits" of unjust policy (aka War) you'd understand.




So, why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear program in your mind?
Click to expand...

Repeating a slogan doesn't make it an axiom. I would prefer Iran not possess a nuclear program because I believe they seek either a nuclear weapon or breakout capacity to create one. If they must have a program I believe it must be certain that they not have any reasonable capacity to construct a weapon. This is because I value the importance of liberal hegemony and its role in creating a more peaceful, prosperous, and just world. An Iran capable of challenging the liberal order and our agenda in the region is a severe danger.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom