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Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

B'smith said:
______________________

The issue/topic here is Iran's right to have a nuclear program which is undeniable and has nothing to do with its treatment of Gays. Iran's support for Hezbollah is a frequent excuse yet is considered a "Terrorist" group by only 3 countries because of its Humanitarian & political work.

I agree that the persecution of Gays is reprehensible however the "Conservative" / Right Wing's* concern for Gays only seems to blossom when it comes to Iran.

If brutality of innocent civilians were the measure of a country's right to nukes, Israel & N. Korea should have had their nuclear arsenals confiscated decades ago.

In 2014, Israel executed/killed more innocent civilians than in any year since 1967 and thousands more than Iran & yet is America's greatest Aid recipient +.

N. Korea is a far greater nuclear threat to S. Korea, Japan etc but isn't getting nearly the pressure, deadlines, or spotlight as Iran

Why?

The egregious double-standard applied to Iran is not lost on the rest of the world which will increase tensions in the Region & place America at odds with Russia, China & most of the world militarily, financially & diplomatically.

There is really no legitimate reason for US interests to deny Iran its right. Attempting to defend the indefensible is terrible for US security, future diplomatic efforts & overall interests.

I care too much for this country & those defending it to jeopardize both for another fatally flawed injustice.


Thanks



*I'm simply "None of the Above" Re: Political stance
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I agree the issue is Iran getting nukes-YOU brought up how wonderful Iran is because you travel n stuff. :doh

Iran is a signatory to various nuclear treaties, why should they violate them now?

And if you see no difference between Israel defending itself and Iran killing others through its interventionism you might have a distorted view.
 
US Conservative said:
I agree the issue is Iran getting nukes-YOU brought up how wonderful Iran is because you travel n stuff. :doh

Iran is a signatory to various nuclear treaties, why should they violate them now?

And if you see no difference between Israel defending itself and Iran killing others through its interventionism you might have a distorted view.
Click to expand...

It's also just such a childish metric. "Country A does X, why cant Country B do Y!" Even if we assume the allegation is true the obvious answer is that the necessities of foreign policy demand it, and the purpose of our foreign policy is to make a more secure and liberal world. So regardless of what Country A does we reject the 'right' of Country B to do Y. It isn't complicated.
 
US Conservative said:
I agree the issue is Iran getting nukes-YOU brought up how wonderful Iran is because you travel n stuff. :doh

Iran is a signatory to various nuclear treaties, why should they violate them now?

And if you see no difference between Israel defending itself and Iran killing others through its interventionism you might have a distorted view.
Click to expand...

_____________________________

My question, all along, has simply been:

"Why should Iran be denied the nuclear program to which it is entitled?"

I have simply dispelled some of the many popular misconceptions about Iran, Hezbollah etc you seem to hold.

You brought up your concern for persecution of Gays via Human Rights violations as a reason to deny a country a nuclear program.

I simply countered that nuclear States like Israel & N. Korea have Human Rights violations that far exceed Iran's.

For example: Israelis initiated & participated in this recent investigation that is hardly "defending itself"

“INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION DETAILS ISRAEL’S DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS IN GAZA”
(further discussion of Israel/Palestine belongs elsewhere)

Again, please respond to:

"Why should Iran be denied the nuclear program to which it is entitled?"
 
B'smith said:
_____________________________

My question, all along, has simply been:

"Why should Iran be denied the nuclear program to which it is entitled?"

I have simply dispelled some of the many popular misconceptions about Iran, Hezbollah etc you seem to hold.

You brought up your concern for persecution of Gays via Human Rights violations as a reason to deny a country a nuclear program.

I simply countered that nuclear States like Israel & N. Korea have Human Rights violations that far exceed Iran's.

For example: Israelis initiated & participated in this recent investigation that is hardly "defending itself"

“INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION DETAILS ISRAEL’S DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS IN GAZA”
(further discussion of Israel/Palestine belongs elsewhere)

Again, please respond to:

"Why should Iran be denied the nuclear program to which it is entitled?"
Click to expand...

Its not entitled to anything, anymore than we are entitled to strike Iran to prevent its development of nukes.
 
How is Iran "entitled" to have a nuke? Is there some sort of international Second Amendment right to keep and bear nuclear arms or something?

The government of Iran is nuts, even more nuts than our own. They don't need nukes, nor are they "entitled" to them.
 
JANFU said:
I mean who really gives a hoot of what he says.
It means squat.
He is a Politician.
A thug, yes, but still a Politician.

And as to how the Muslim worlds chants Death to America, well they did that for a number of other countries.
And again, who really give a ****.
Recall the cartoons?
International reactions to the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cartoon controversy spreads throughout Muslim world | World news | The Guardian
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We can all remember how crazed Muslims reacted around the world by rioting, murdering and destroying millions of dollars worth of property. Now these same people will have access to nuclear weapons.
 
B'smith said:
_____________________________

My question, all along, has simply been:"Why should Iran be denied the nuclear program to which it is entitled?"
Click to expand...
Iran has the right to develop a nuclear weapon and the democracies have a right to nuke them if they do. Everyone wins.
 
B'smith said:
My question, all along, has simply been:

"Why should Iran be denied the nuclear program to which it is entitled?"
Click to expand...
Iran is entitled under the XI Articles of the NPT (which it signed in 1968) to engage in nuclear research and develop nuclear power as an energy source. Iran cannot engage in any activity related to enriching fissile material above a specified threshold or any activity related to developing a nuclear warhead. As with all NPT signatory nations, Iran must permit UN/IAEA document/data/materials oversight and facility inspections.
 
I'm thinking about how Iraq played with the U.N. and wonder if Iran will do the same re UN/IAEA document/data/materials oversight and facility inspections.
 
nota bene said:
I'm thinking about how Iraq played with the U.N. and wonder if Iran will do the same re UN/IAEA document/data/materials oversight and facility inspections.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking about how this was used as an excuse to invade Iraq and essentially cause the collapse of the Middle East.
 
US Conservative said:
Hopefully B'smith wont deprive democracies of their rights n stuff!
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Perhaps he's not familiar with the concept that with rights comes responsibilities. Most people are properly vetted before acquiring weapons and that procedure should be especially onerous when the applicant is chanting to the death oto all their enemies, real or perceived. Maybe they're just kidding around but judging by the way they treat their citizens and neighbors, I wouldn't give them the benefit of any doubt.
 
Grant said:
Your history is faulty. Iraq was declared "stable" as late as 2011. FLASHBACK
Click to expand...

How was Iraq stable if America needs to be there forever to keep the people from killing each other? Iraq was under Iranian thumb long before Obama.
 
Grant said:
Iran has the right to develop a nuclear weapon and the democracies have a right to nuke them if they do. Everyone wins.
Click to expand...
_______________
"Everyone Wins"?

Perhaps you would like to volunteer your time helping the mangled, burned, traumatized & mutilated, young "Winners" languishing in America's grossly underfunded V.A. hospitals. If you had ever served in America's military & witnessed Modern Ordinance vs Human Tissue "collisions", you'd feel differently

How do you think Iranians are supposed to react after repeatedly seeing comments like yours in which a nuclear attack is so casually espoused as a "Win" & threats to abrogate a peaceful Nuclear Treaty are coming from 47 treasonous US Senators?

While Iranian chants of "Death to ______" have proven meaningless, most of the world sees the Israel / US alliance as the greatest threat to Regional stability/peace and untrustworthy in any Nuclear Agreement that may be reached:


“Iran Nuclear Talks: U.S. 'Not Trustworthy,' Says Top Tehran Cleric”
Iran Nuclear Talks: U.S. 'Not Trustworthy,' Says Top Tehran Cleric - NBC News

EXCERPT “One of Iran's most powerful clerics lashed out at the American government on Tuesday, saying the U.S. could not be trusted during high-stakes nuclear talks.

"We support nuclear talks and also support an agreement, but a good deal in which the country's dignity and national interests are conserved," he added.

His comments follow a letter from Senate Republicans to the Tehran government in which 47 politicians suggested they would undo any agreement signed by President Barack Obama.

The letter, along with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech in Congress last week warning against a nuclear agreement with Iran, was harshly criticized by Iran's Foreign Minister Javed Zarif, and the White House.”CONTINUED


Please read up on the following to get an understanding of Iran's justified concerns:

1. J.I.N.S.A.'s "A Clean Break; A New Strategy for Securing the Realm"

2. P.N.A.C. (Project for A New American Century)

3. the Oded Yinon Plan
 
Amadeus said:
How was Iraq stable if America needs to be there forever to keep the people from killing each other? Iraq was under Iranian thumb long before Obama.
Click to expand...
Iraq was 'stable' because the US Military was there. Withdrawing the military has led to the loss of many thousands of lives and could leave millions dead.

The US Military has been stationed' forever' in many countries around the world, thereby securing stability in these regions. This is what should have happened in Iraq and was the position by all military leaders and advisers.

But the American electorate, with some apparently feeling troops would have to remain in Iraq 'forever', felt that the job of US President didn't require much political or real world experience, that skin color was a sufficient qualification. These same people now seem to feel that gender is the highest qualifier for political office.
 
B'smith said:
While Iranian chants of "Death to ______" have proven meaningless, most of the world sees the Israel / US alliance as the greatest threat to Regional stability/peace and untrustworthy in any Nuclear Agreement that may be reached:
Click to expand...
It is the Iranians and their support of terrorism who are creating 'instability'. Why leave the "Death to" blank? They have vowed death to both the USA and Israel, right?
“Iran Nuclear Talks: U.S. 'Not Trustworthy,' Says Top Tehran Cleric”
Click to expand...
The US, under Obama, has proven to be 'untrustworthy'. No argument there.
EXCERPT “One of Iran's most powerful clerics lashed out at the American government on Tuesday, saying the U.S. could not be trusted during high-stakes nuclear talks. "We support nuclear talks and also support an agreement, but a good deal in which the country's dignity and national interests are conserved," he added.
Click to expand...
That's what happens when the Stupids elect an inexperienced and not very bright street hustler for President.
His comments follow a letter from Senate Republicans to the Tehran government in which 47 politicians suggested they would undo any agreement signed by President Barack Obama.
Click to expand...
The opinion of the American people's representatives counts for more than what some Iranian yahoo may think.
The letter, along with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech in Congress last week warning against a nuclear agreement with Iran, was harshly criticized by Iran's Foreign Minister Javed Zarif, and the White House.”
Click to expand...
Who cares?
 
B'smith said:
_______________
"Everyone Wins"?

Perhaps you would like to volunteer your time helping the mangled, burned, traumatized & mutilated, young "Winners" languishing in America's grossly underfunded V.A. hospitals. If you had ever served in America's military & witnessed Modern Ordinance vs Human Tissue "collisions", you'd feel differently

How do you think Iranians are supposed to react after repeatedly seeing comments like yours in which a nuclear attack is so casually espoused as a "Win" & threats to abrogate a peaceful Nuclear Treaty are coming from 47 treasonous US Senators?

While Iranian chants of "Death to ______" have proven meaningless, most of the world sees the Israel / US alliance as the greatest threat to Regional stability/peace and untrustworthy in any Nuclear Agreement that may be reached:


“Iran Nuclear Talks: U.S. 'Not Trustworthy,' Says Top Tehran Cleric”
Iran Nuclear Talks: U.S. 'Not Trustworthy,' Says Top Tehran Cleric - NBC News

EXCERPT “One of Iran's most powerful clerics lashed out at the American government on Tuesday, saying the U.S. could not be trusted during high-stakes nuclear talks.

"We support nuclear talks and also support an agreement, but a good deal in which the country's dignity and national interests are conserved," he added.

His comments follow a letter from Senate Republicans to the Tehran government in which 47 politicians suggested they would undo any agreement signed by President Barack Obama.

The letter, along with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech in Congress last week warning against a nuclear agreement with Iran, was harshly criticized by Iran's Foreign Minister Javed Zarif, and the White House.”CONTINUED


Please read up on the following to get an understanding of Iran's justified concerns:

1. J.I.N.S.A.'s "A Clean Break; A New Strategy for Securing the Realm"

2. P.N.A.C. (Project for A New American Century)

3. the Oded Yinon Plan
Click to expand...

Iran is in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. How well is that working for stability in the region.
Iraq is nothing more than a client state of Iran.
 
B'smith said:
_______________
"Everyone Wins"?

Perhaps you would like to volunteer your time helping the mangled, burned, traumatized & mutilated, young "Winners" languishing in America's grossly underfunded V.A. hospitals. If you had ever served in America's military & witnessed Modern Ordinance vs Human Tissue "collisions", you'd feel differently

How do you think Iranians are supposed to react after repeatedly seeing comments like yours in which a nuclear attack is so casually espoused as a "Win" & threats to abrogate a peaceful Nuclear Treaty are coming from 47 treasonous US Senators?

While Iranian chants of "Death to ______" have proven meaningless, most of the world sees the Israel / US alliance as the greatest threat to Regional stability/peace and untrustworthy in any Nuclear Agreement that may be reached:


“Iran Nuclear Talks: U.S. 'Not Trustworthy,' Says Top Tehran Cleric”
Iran Nuclear Talks: U.S. 'Not Trustworthy,' Says Top Tehran Cleric - NBC News

EXCERPT “One of Iran's most powerful clerics lashed out at the American government on Tuesday, saying the U.S. could not be trusted during high-stakes nuclear talks.

"We support nuclear talks and also support an agreement, but a good deal in which the country's dignity and national interests are conserved," he added.

His comments follow a letter from Senate Republicans to the Tehran government in which 47 politicians suggested they would undo any agreement signed by President Barack Obama.

The letter, along with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech in Congress last week warning against a nuclear agreement with Iran, was harshly criticized by Iran's Foreign Minister Javed Zarif, and the White House.”CONTINUED


Please read up on the following to get an understanding of Iran's justified concerns:

1. J.I.N.S.A.'s "A Clean Break; A New Strategy for Securing the Realm"

2. P.N.A.C. (Project for A New American Century)

3. the Oded Yinon Plan
Click to expand...

"We support nuclear talks and also support an agreement, but a good deal in which the country's dignity and national interests are conserved," he added.
Click to expand...

Too bad our own President doesn't hold this view.
 
JANFU said:
Iran is in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. How well is that working for stability in the region.
Iraq is nothing more than a client state of Iran.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's certainly becoming that way, and with little resistance. And Barack H.Obama has managed to do this in just four years.
 
Grant said:
Yes, it's certainly becoming that way, and with little resistance. And Barack H.Obama has managed to do this in just four years.
Click to expand...

Now Saudi is moving. Both Turkey and Egypt have significant debt that is held by Saudi.
Both have large militaries, though the Saudi’s military have little battlefield experience.
Turkey lots of insurgent experience.
In the end Saleh and his crew must go.
And a negotiated settlement arrived at.
 
Most recent situation on the ground...
0NW8HrT.png


And this is very interesting...SA helping AQ in Syria?
https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/582161750239404032
 
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