• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

If I were a Canadian, I would trade....however I would make they trade by emigrating to the US(Prior to Obamacare). I would not pay the healthcare taxes the Canadians are paying.

But we pay less taxes than you as a rule.

When the Obamacare debate was raging, here we were treated to some real statistics. In the end, Americans of the same wage paid about the same rate of taxes AND medical health premiums that would have crippled me and most those I knew.

The fact remains, that yes, you do have the Cadillac of health care systems, and by far the most expensive. I have several times looked at moving to the US and had offers but in the end I would have been taking a pay cut to work in a larger market.
 
You don't even understand the meaning of the Cool Hand Luke statement. Your problem is that you are more into rhetoric then reality. If you understood the concept of trickle down economics, you would easily work out that it has always been a part of any economy based on free enterprise.



"What we have here....is a failure to communicate"
 
last i checked, even the Democrats weren't seriously pushing for single payer. they had their chance, and they went with a for profit half measure that does almost nothing to force down costs and which leaves the stupid employer-specific health insurance model in place.

Single payer was the democrats goal all along. They were just smart enough to work out that they would manage it in one bill. They originally included a clause in the ACA that would have put us on single payer if Obamacare collapsed. The clause did not survive into the final version that passed. They also knew it would be the death knell of the democrat party. I sympathize that you want single payer, however the majority of Americans want nothing to do with single payer.
 
It was an attempt to lower the increase in medical insurance and costs which it has done to a degree. It was also an attempt to get more people covered rather than have emergency rooms overflowing and have them seek out more preventive care which is cheaper. The funding solution was to have a larger base hence the mandate. Quite reasonable really, just like car insurance. If you drive you need car insurance, if you need medical you get medical insurance but not just when you get sick. The employer provided system was getting quite a bit more expensive there was also no coverage for preexisting conditions and individual plans were cost prohibited for many. I prefer a single based payer like Canada but cons would object so he tried a quasi market based approach. What's your solution?

LOL !!

You're full of it.
It was such a awesome idea it had to be sold using a long list of lies.

And lower cost ? How by increasing deductibles and premiums ?

Now we have to buy a product that was sold using deceptive advertising and there's nothing we can do about it.

If a Insurance company prior to Obama'sCare tried the old Bait and Switch on me ( deceptive advertising ) at least I would be able to appeal to the Federal Trade Commission.

But now the Federal Trade Commission is part of the same entity that pulled a bait and switch scam on every American consumer !!

Democrats vilified the Insurance companies when they were pushing this monstrosity for ethics violations and taking advantage of their consumers and then Obama comes along and scams every one !

You can't make **** like this up !! Only the Democrat party could do something so unethical on such a grand scale.

And affordability has now been redefined as whatever makes Obama and the Democrats look good. How would a bunch of lying Democrats know whats affordable for every individual American ?

They didn't ! Its like theyre a bunch of used car salesman..
 
But we pay less taxes than you as a rule.

When the Obamacare debate was raging, here we were treated to some real statistics. In the end, Americans of the same wage paid about the same rate of taxes AND medical health premiums that would have crippled me and most those I knew.

The fact remains, that yes, you do have the Cadillac of health care systems, and by far the most expensive. I have several times looked at moving to the US and had offers but in the end I would have been taking a pay cut to work in a larger market.

Granted. However it has not always been prohibitively expensive. A combination of government tinkering with the healthcare system and ambulance chasing attorneys is what has made it so expensive in the last couple of decades. Doctors and hospitals have to load up on malpractice insurance just to fend off the frivolous malpractice lawsuits. Most other nations have much tighter control on such lawsuits. Same with the pharmaceutical companies. They invest billions in coming up with new drugs, many of which are lifesaving. However they have to set aside billions to fend off the ambulance chasing lawyers if 1 out of a million patients has negative side effects.
 
No, it's not covered by the healthcare system. If the service is offered under the Canadian program, the government will not fund it if you jump the line and seek the procedure in the US. They will fund it if they deem that they cannot offer the procedure or a similar one here but first you have to go through a bureaucratic nightmare to get that prior approval. We've had lots of cases, even young children going blind, whose parents have had to pay for the US care themselves. We have some people who have been denied and went to the US anyway to save their lives and then come back to Canada and sued to be reimbursed.

But hey, the grass is always greener on the other side.

so this is false? :

Debunking Canadian health care myths - The Denver Post

i'll still trade you health care systems.

cost-of-long-life.jpg
 
If I were a Canadian, I would trade....however I would make they trade by emigrating to the US(Prior to Obamacare). I would not pay the healthcare taxes the Canadians are paying.


nah, you wouldn't trade. and neither would CJ. he won't even pretend that he would trade on an anonymous message board. you should ask yourself why that is the case.

and if he responds to this and says that he would trade, we'll start talking to DP posters from Europe. and then i'll tell them about some of the ridiculously high out of pocket costs that we pay for stuff that they are mostly covered for.
 
nah, you wouldn't trade. and neither would CJ. he won't even pretend that he would trade on an anonymous message board. you should ask yourself why that is the case.
.

It depends. If I were stuck in Canada and was forced to pay into the system, I would not turn down the medical care I paid for. If I were a Canadian citizen with a good opportunity to emigrate to the US? I would trade in a heartbeat.


and if he responds to this and says that he would trade, we'll start talking to DP posters from Europe. and then i'll tell them about some of the ridiculously high out of pocket costs that we pay for stuff that they are mostly covered for.

So basically your problem is with the high out of pocket costs. As John pointed out, Canadians are getting stuck with many of those high out of pocket costs as well for treatment not covered under the single payer system. And what allegedly works in Europe will not necessarily work here. IN the UK for instance, the single payer system is not anything close to solvent. And the entire UK is about the size of the US gulf coast. Do you really think that the same US government that runs Medicare and the VA Healthcare system so poorly can somehow get it right with single payer?
 
It depends. If I were stuck in Canada and was forced to pay into the system, I would not turn down the medical care I paid for. If I were a Canadian citizen with a good opportunity to emigrate to the US? I would trade in a heartbeat.




So basically your problem is with the high out of pocket costs. As John pointed out, Canadians are getting stuck with many of those high out of pocket costs as well for treatment not covered under the single payer system. And what allegedly works in Europe will not necessarily work here. IN the UK for instance, the single payer system is not anything close to solvent. And the entire UK is about the size of the US gulf coast. Do you really think that the same US government that runs Medicare and the VA Healthcare system so poorly can somehow get it right with single payer?

do they pay three hundred a month, almost two grand for a cut thumb, and twelve grand for a broken arm?

wait, i though you and i were just going to declare irreconcilable differences on this issue.
 
You don't even understand the meaning of the Cool Hand Luke statement. Your problem is that you are more into rhetoric then reality. If you understood the concept of trickle down economics, you would easily work out that it has always been a part of any economy based on free enterprise.

Your opinion is duly noted and given the attention it deserves.
 
LOL !!

You're full of it.
It was such a awesome idea it had to be sold using a long list of lies.

And lower cost ? How by increasing deductibles and premiums ?

Now we have to buy a product that was sold using deceptive advertising and there's nothing we can do about it.

If a Insurance company prior to Obama'sCare tried the old Bait and Switch on me ( deceptive advertising ) at least I would be able to appeal to the Federal Trade Commission.

But now the Federal Trade Commission is part of the same entity that pulled a bait and switch scam on every American consumer !!

Democrats vilified the Insurance companies when they were pushing this monstrosity for ethics violations and taking advantage of their consumers and then Obama comes along and scams every one !

You can't make **** like this up !! Only the Democrat party could do something so unethical on such a grand scale.

And affordability has now been redefined as whatever makes Obama and the Democrats look good. How would a bunch of lying Democrats know whats affordable for every individual American ?

They didn't ! Its like theyre a bunch of used car salesman..

You obviously didn't want an answer, just an excuse to rag on Obama and the Dems. No response as to what to do about healthcare either. Typical con, all no and no substance.
 
You obviously didn't want an answer, just an excuse to rag on Obama and the Dems. No response as to what to do about healthcare either. Typical con, all no and no substance.

You didn't give an answer. You just repeated a bunch of unsubstantiated " Yay ObamaCare " rhetoric.

It needed to be dealt with accordingly. Hope you understand.
 
nah, you wouldn't trade. and neither would CJ. he won't even pretend that he would trade on an anonymous message board. you should ask yourself why that is the case.

and if he responds to this and says that he would trade, we'll start talking to DP posters from Europe. and then i'll tell them about some of the ridiculously high out of pocket costs that we pay for stuff that they are mostly covered for.

You just can't help yourself, can you? - instead of speaking to the OP and the issued raised, you have to rely on continuing a strawman argument that is totally irrelevant. It's like arguing that it's better to live in Detroit than Mogadishu therefore Detroit is wonderful and perfect.
 
You just can't help yourself, can you? - instead of speaking to the OP and the issued raised, you have to rely on continuing a strawman argument that is totally irrelevant. It's like arguing that it's better to live in Detroit than Mogadishu therefore Detroit is wonderful and perfect.


i'm fairly convinced that most Canadians wouldn't trade the cost of their system for the crushing costs of ours. posters from Europe wouldn't want to, either.
 
i'm fairly convinced that most Canadians wouldn't trade the cost of their system for the crushing costs of ours. posters from Europe wouldn't want to, either.

Like Pavlov's dog, every post from you starts with your strawman challenge.

Actually, I'll bet posters from Canada and Europe wouldn't mind your healthcare system because we'd be able to manage it much better, eliminating all the wasteful spending on tort insurance and multiple tests/procedures/medications that only serve the purpose of indemnifying healthcare professionals from your out of control civil litigation lawyers and the greed of the public to score a lottery win every time they visit a doctor.
 
Like Pavlov's dog, every post from you starts with your strawman challenge.

Actually, I'll bet posters from Canada and Europe wouldn't mind your healthcare system because we'd be able to manage it much better, eliminating all the wasteful spending on tort insurance and multiple tests/procedures/medications that only serve the purpose of indemnifying healthcare professionals from your out of control civil litigation lawyers and the greed of the public to score a lottery win every time they visit a doctor.

hey, if they want to pay tens of thousands for a heart attack and maybe hundreds of thousands because they get cancer, more power to them.

oh, there's also end of life care. how that works is that you give the nursing home your entire estate, and then medicaid can finally kick in. "i hope that i go quick so that i can leave my kids something." that's actually a thing. people actually say that.

but sure. if you want to **** up your single payer system by privatizing it, be my guest. i'll be down here shaking my head and hoping that i don't get sick or cut my thumb again.
 
do they pay three hundred a month, almost two grand for a cut thumb,
and twelve grand for a broken arm?

It's not just about cost. I will be 62 this year. I already have some minor arthritis going in one shoulder. I at some point, I need a hip replacement.....in Canada under their single payer system, there is a waiting list. Not the case here. And I sympathize with the outrageous bills you were faced with, however I suspect that it was a combination of whatever health insurance you were on and price gouging at the point of service. I don't think it's the norm. Not all insurance policies are equal. In the last ten Since 1999, and prior to Obamacare, I have had my gallbladder out, four eye surgeries, and a hernia repair. My out of pocket cost with insurance for the eye surgeries was less then $200.00 Less then $1000.00 for the gall bladder, and the hernia repair. If I had continued to maintain private health insurance after Obamacare passed, there is no doubt I would have been hit as bad or worse then your example. My point is that the US Healthcare system did work reasonably well before the government tinkered with it. And it can again.

wait, I though you and i were just going to declare irreconcilable differences on this issue.

I think we cordially agreed that we will not agree in regards to a single payer system versus private healthcare. However the debate is still interesting. If anyone makes a point I disagree with, I will still at times respond and put in my two cents.
 
You just can't help yourself, can you? - instead of speaking to the OP and the issued raised, you have to rely on continuing a strawman argument that is totally irrelevant. It's like arguing that it's better to live in Detroit than Mogadishu therefore Detroit is wonderful and perfect.

Detroit is almost as bad a Mogadishu. :shoot
 
It's not just about cost. I will be 62 this year. I already have some minor arthritis going in one shoulder. I at some point, I need a hip replacement.....in Canada under their single payer system, there is a waiting list. Not the case here. And I sympathize with the outrageous bills you were faced with, however I suspect that it was a combination of whatever health insurance you were on and price gouging at the point of service. I don't think it's the norm. Not all insurance policies are equal. In the last ten Since 1999, and prior to Obamacare, I have had my gallbladder out, four eye surgeries, and a hernia repair. My out of pocket cost with insurance for the eye surgeries was less then $200.00 Less then $1000.00 for the gall bladder, and the hernia repair. If I had continued to maintain private health insurance after Obamacare passed, there is no doubt I would have been hit as bad or worse then your example. My point is that the US Healthcare system did work reasonably well before the government tinkered with it. And it can again.



I think we cordially agreed that we will not agree in regards to a single payer system versus private healthcare. However the debate is still interesting. If anyone makes a point I disagree with, I will still at times respond and put in my two cents.

we have different experiences which probably contribute to the disagreement. i have good insurance by my generation's standards, and you have good insurance by your generation's standards. it has eroded so much, though, that the kind of insurance i have would probably have been considered exceptionally ****ty by your generation's standards. my guess is that Gen Y and the Millenials have it even worse. i have just pretty much had it with the American system. about a month after cutting my thumb, i probably should have gone to the hospital because i couldn't stop throwing up, but there was no ****ing way i was giving those assholes another dime. they sent me two bills for the same thing when i had my thumb superglued. i thought that it was a mistake, and they told me that it was two different companies. they are milking it for everything that they can get because it's an essential service with inelastic demand.

when i was born, my parents had very little money, and i had to have life saving lung surgery. they didn't have to go bankrupt. my girl and i are hoping to get married soon and have kids, and i'm pretty scared about the bills. my parents didn't need to be afraid of that. people in many other first world countries don't have to be worried about being bankrupted because they get sick or have a kid. we can do better. i don't believe that i'm going to die on a waiting list, but i know for a fact that if i lose my job, that insurance is gone unless i COBRA. that is just a stupid way to do it.
 
Like Pavlov's dog, every post from you starts with your strawman challenge.

Actually, I'll bet posters from Canada and Europe wouldn't mind your healthcare system because we'd be able to manage it much better, eliminating all the wasteful spending on tort insurance and multiple tests/procedures/medications that only serve the purpose of indemnifying healthcare professionals from your out of control civil litigation lawyers and the greed of the public to score a lottery win every time they visit a doctor.

Excellent point. One of the biggest hurdles to lowering the cost of private healthcare in the US is the jackpot justice system in the US. It affects not only healthcare, but many other aspects of business in the US. For instance a man bought a new BMW automobile in Alabama and discovered that the body of the car had minor damage in the production line that was repaired before he took delivery. He sues for 2 million dollars. There is no way in hell that he was damaged to the point of 2 million dollars, however in too many cases, juries are awarding such outageous amounts. Many retail outlets, especially department stores and supermarkets have to carry outrageous amounts of insurance and have lawyers on retainer to fend off lawsuits over falls that in many cases staged. Canada and most European nations have some control over frivolous lawsuits. In the US, there are no coherent limits. Our healthcare system, pre-obamacare would likely be much less expensive in Europe and Canada.
 
Just another example of greed and socio-economic stratification...
 
Back
Top Bottom