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Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Lursa said:
So....where are the efforts to reduce all the car deaths? Those could be reduced BY FAR by eliminating private car ownership or greatly restricting it.

Why isnt that happening? (Thanks btw, you are making my point for me)

Why are THOSE car-related deaths "acceptable" but the much rarer (even before banned) gun deaths?

Emotion overcoming common sense is my Reader's Digest comment on that.
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Why not just answer my question rather than hiding behind this increasingly tedious smokescreen ? :roll:
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Lursa said:
Yes you do.

Body count from car accidents, body count from gun incidents.

You wont answer it, lol, I knew that when I posted it but it's still there for people to read.
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What does the number of people killed in cars have to do with the number of people killed from guns? It is two different things.

You may as well then use a comparative with any other cause of death and there are hundreds of them.

Why are you comparing cars to guns?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

haymarket said:
I never said that and you damn well know it because you FAILED to print any quotes from me saying it. It is simply more blatant dishonesty and fraud.

It speaks volumes about your argument that you have to resort to such tactics.
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No point in trying to backpedal your way out of this one - you are being held accountable by your peers here.

This will not work!!

dodgeball.jpg

backpedal2.jpg
 
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Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
Why not just answer my question rather than hiding behind this tedious smokescreen ? :roll:
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Because America will not make that choice....what you are describing is extremely hypocritical and based on an emotional bias, not fact.

Your country over-reacted to a terrible incident and banned guns. And yet ignores more deaths in car accidents and does nothing (new) to change that. So it's not about deaths, it's about hypocritical fear of one thing but ignoring it for another 'thing.'
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

haymarket said:
What does the number of people killed in cars have to do with the number of people killed from guns? It is two different things.

You may as well then use a comparative with any other cause of death and there are hundreds of them.

Why are you comparing cars to guns?
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This point has been made time and again, in this thread and others. Including by me in the last couple of pages.

So you are lying to pretend you dont know why we're making the comparison.

That's all ya got left? Flat out lies?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Lursa said:
Because America will not make that choice....what you are describing is extremely hypocritical and based on an emotional bias, not fact.

Your country over-reacted to a terrible incident and banned guns. And yet ignores more deaths in car accidents and does nothing (new) to change that. So it's not about deaths, it's about hypocritical fear of one thing but ignoring it for another 'thing.'
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Our gun laws now mean I am 40 times less likely to be shot than in the US. Our recent crime figures also show or crime rates across virtually all categories are the lowest since 1981. Whats your point ?

Crime at lowest level for 30 years | UK news | The Guardian

What you'd call an over reaction anyone else would call a great success and our gun laws have undoubtedly played their part in that ! :)
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
Our gun laws now mean I am 40 times less likely to be shot than in the US. Our recent crime figures also show or crime rates across virtually all categories are the lowest since 1981. Whats your point ?

Crime at lowest level for 30 years | UK news | The Guardian

What you'd call an over reaction anyone else would call a great success and our gun laws have undoubtedly played their part in that ! :)
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So...why arent you reducing car deaths the same way? Seems like you've got a great plan, that's already worked out, proven!

Like you said...a success and you certainly have a good public transit system set up. WHy not start saving THOSE people, THOSE kids?

Like I said, just silly. It's not about deaths, it's about manufactured fear.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Lursa said:
So...why arent you reducing car deaths the same way? Seems like you've got a great plan, that's already worked out, proven!

Like you said...a success and you certainly have a good public transit system set up. WHy not start saving THOSE people, THOSE kids?

Like I said, just silly. It's not about deaths, it's about manufactured fear.
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Stop dodging and just answer my question ?

We have car accidents too but almost no gun deaths. You have car accidents PLUS AN ADDITIONAL 30,000 gun deaths per annum. Why is that a good thing ?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
Stop dodging and just answer my question ?

We have car accidents too but almost no gun deaths. You have car accidents PLUS AN ADDITIONAL 30,000 gun deaths per annum. Why is that a good thing ?
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No deaths are a good thing. Why is it ok to accept some deaths but not others if they can be prevented?

There's little rationale behind it. In the US, there is no way to remove the guns from criminals. None. Just like with drugs. In the US guns also save lives.

We place rights above safety..esp. when we enable...hopefully encourage people...to take responsibility for themselves. Giving people the ability to protect their own rights when possible.

As a woman living alone on rural acreage far from the police, why should I be forced to give up a good means of protection because of other people's fears? Are they going to suffer my consequences when I am raped or murdered during a break-in? Your crime rates might have gone down but that is little solace to anyone that does suffer from crime and had fewer options for protection.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

haymarket said:
What is the point of anyone posting here if your attitude is YOU ARE LYING IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME.

It is your all purpose phony ace up your sleeve card that pretends to permit you to discount anything anyone actually says and merely use it as springboard #1,278 or so in going off on a rant and screaming about "gun banners" and "their real desires.

How can any site have intelligent discussion between people with different views if you approach things from that dishonest perspective?
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1) stop shouting

2) gun banners will never say what law is one too many or what infringement is one too much

3) the only dishonesty comes from the gun banners who pretend their goal is less crime
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
Stop dodging and just answer my question ?

We have car accidents too but almost no gun deaths. You have car accidents PLUS AN ADDITIONAL 30,000 gun deaths per annum. Why is that a good thing ?
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that's a stupid question because gun bans will not change that

the question should be this. we Americans are generally free to be armed as we see fit. England on the other hand, engaged in collective bed wetting and punished all the legal handgun owners over one maniac's rampage. How is England better off by making scapegoats out of innocent people?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Lursa said:
No deaths are a good thing. Why is it ok to accept some deaths but not others if they can be prevented?
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Because some are far more easily preventable than others with firearms deaths being perhaps the easiest of all given the UK example . Its this unwillingness by US firearm disciples to acknowledge that fact that makes them collectively culpable for your horrendous firearms stats

There's little rationale behind it. In the US, there is no way to remove the guns from criminals. None. Just like with drugs. In the US guns also save lives.
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The guns most criminals now have were doubtless legally owned once upon a time so you are blaming the symptom and not the cause

We place rights above safety..esp. when we enable...hopefully encourage people...to take responsibility for themselves. Giving people the ability to protect their own rights when possible.
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By shooting people ?

As a woman living alone on rural acreage far from the police, why should I be forced to give up a good means of protection because of other people's fears? Are they going to suffer my consequences when I am raped or murdered during a break-in? Your crime rates might have gone down but that is little solace to anyone that does suffer from crime and had fewer options for protection.
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I suspect your fear of crime is vastly greater than the actuality of it.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
I suspect your fear of crime is vastly greater than the actuality of it.
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so why are you whining about US gun ownership? if crime is not that great to justify honest people being armed, it certainly is not great enough to disarm honest people hoping it might deter a few of the scarce criminals
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

TurtleDude said:
that's a stupid question because gun bans will not change that
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They have here.

the question should be this. we Americans are generally free to be armed as we see fit. England on the other hand, engaged in collective bed wetting and punished all the legal handgun owners over one maniac's rampage. How is England better off by making scapegoats out of innocent people?
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How have we done this ? You seem to think we are all here pining after our lost firearms when truth be told probably 99% of us look over the pond and are relieved that our laws work so much better than yours in safeguarding our society . Any politician advocating a US system of firearms availability would be sent into electoral oblivion at the ballot box pretty quickly and rightly so.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

TurtleDude said:
so why are you whining about US gun ownership? if crime is not that great to justify honest people being armed, it certainly is not great enough to disarm honest people hoping it might deter a few of the scarce criminals
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Because avoiding 30,000 needless deaths every year might be worth it ?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

TurtleDude said:
that's a stupid question because gun bans will not change that

the question should be this. we Americans are generally free to be armed as we see fit. England on the other hand, engaged in collective bed wetting and punished all the legal handgun owners over one maniac's rampage. How is England better off by making scapegoats out of innocent people?
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Oh come on now. Ban guns, and that will result in 30,000 fewer deaths. Why, you ask? It's obvious. The thugs who use guns to kill each other will instead hug and be friends. The people who commit suicide by gun will instead be walking around singing "My life is great! I'm so happy to be alive!". Drug dealers will just yell at the guy who tries to rob them - "No no no, you can't take my money. Now go away!". And the people who used guns to protect themselves? Well, with any luck they can talk the person who intends to hurt them out of it.

See, you're just not looking at it the right way.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

tres borrachos said:
Oh come on now. Ban guns, and that will result in 30,000 fewer deaths. Why, you ask? It's obvious. The thugs who use guns to kill each other will instead hug and be friends. The people who commit suicide by gun will instead be walking around singing "My life is great! I'm so happy to be alive!". Drug dealers will just yell at the guy who tries to rob them - "No no no, you can't take my money. Now go away!". And the people who used guns to protect themselves? Well, with any luck they can talk the person who intends to hurt them out of it.

See, you're just not looking at it the right way.
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Maybe you could try your sarcasm out on the victims families of the next high school massacre (which is never long delayed Stateside) I'm sure they will appreciate it :roll:
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
Maybe you could try your sarcasm out on the victims families of the next high school massacre (which is never long delayed Stateside) I'm sure they will appreciate it :roll:
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Lame appeal to emotion. But then again, that is all you have had to start with. School massacres are very rare in the USA and when they happen, its mainly due to liberals making them gun free zones
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
They have here.



How have we done this ? You seem to think we are all here pining after our lost firearms when truth be told probably 99% of us look over the pond and are relieved that our laws work so much better than yours in safeguarding our society . Any politician advocating a US system of firearms availability would be sent into electoral oblivion at the ballot box pretty quickly and rightly so.
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any politician who tried to confiscate all US owned handguns would have a very short lived political career. We are not a nation of cowards or bedwetters
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

TurtleDude said:
Lame appeal to emotion. But then again, that is all you have had to start with. School massacres are very rare in the USA and when they happen, its mainly due to liberals making them gun free zones
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I'd find you a bit more credible if you showed even a fraction of the emotion you have in defending guns as you do for the victims of them . Especially in this instance :(
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
I'd find you a bit more credible if you showed even a fraction of the emotion you have in defending guns as you do for the victims of them . Especially in this instance :(
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what good what that do? my freedoms are not subject to diminution based on your complaints about what a CRIMINAL did.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

TurtleDude said:
any politician who tried to confiscate all US owned handguns would have a very short lived political career. We are not a nation of cowards or bedwetters
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I'm a Falklands war veteran and have been under fire. Have you ?
 
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Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

TurtleDude said:
what good what that do? my freedoms are not subject to diminution based on your complaints about what a CRIMINAL did.
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Indeed. As long as the guns are always protected first and foremost who cares about the victims of them :roll:
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
I'm an ex Falklands war veteran and have been under fire. Have you ?
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I am a 24 year veteran of federal law enforcement who took out a mugger with a handgun. Far more relevant.
I also teach civilians-both private and law enforcement personnel how to survive shooting incidents. More importantly, I am a United States Citizen who took two oaths to uphold our constitution
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

flogger said:
Indeed. As long as the guns are always protected first and foremost who cares about the victims of them :roll:
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you think whining about gun rights on a board like this "cares about the victims"? BFD words are cheap and your faux sentiments mean nothing. Why should my rights be forfeited just so foreigners can smugly pretend they did something ineffective?
 
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