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Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

All weapons are inanimate objects. Its the inherent lethality of them when combined with people thats the problem.

sorry I never saw a gun just get up off a table and shoot someone. guns have no intentions. it is people that have intentions.
however that doesn't make the gun maker responsible for what someone else does.

just as a car maker isn't responsible for what someone else does.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

sorry I never saw a gun just get up off a table and shoot someone. guns have no intentions. it is people that have intentions.
however that doesn't make the gun maker responsible for what someone else does.

just as a car maker isn't responsible for what someone else does.


I keep my guns locked up so they won't sneak out at night at massacre the horses or shoot up the local raccoon saloon.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

For a guy who loves to throw around the term LOGIC - you make the very illogical error of pretending that cars which were invented for the purpose of transportation and firearms which were invented for the purpose of shooting others are the same thing.

nope it doesn't matter why something was invented.
the fact is the core belief of your argument is that the maker of an item is responsible for what other people do.

the fact is they aren't. why? because the maker of an item has no control over other people.
a car maker can't control the guy getting drunk.

the gun maker can't control a person that decides to go on a rampage.

yea it is called logic. you are using appeals to emotion and false narratives of intent. guns don't have intentions they are inanimate objects.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

nope it doesn't matter why something was invented.

In the real world - the purpose of something matters a great deal.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

In the real world - the purpose of something matters a great deal.

Coca Cola was developed as a medicine. And we all know everyone's encouraged to drink Coca Cola for medicinal purposes today.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

sorry I never saw a gun just get up off a table and shoot someone. guns have no intentions. it is people that have intentions.
however that doesn't make the gun maker responsible for what someone else does.

just as a car maker isn't responsible for what someone else does.

Just how dim are gun owners Stateside that they continually need the difference between cars and guns explained to them ? With such manifest inability to understand simple concepts its difficult to believe they have the mental capacity to responsibly own firearms without endangering both themselves and those around them ! :shock:
 
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Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

None of what you said negates the reality that firearms were made as a weapon to kill. When a person uses a firearm to shoot another person or creature, they are using it for its created purpose.

That is simply reality no matter how many people shoot at targets.

Crossbows were made to expel a bolt at high speed and good distance. How the crossbow is used by a human is another matter.

Firearms were made to expel a bullet at high speed and good distance. How the firearm is used by a human is another matter.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Crossbows were made to expel a bolt at high speed and good distance. How the crossbow is used by a human is another matter.

Firearms were made to expel a bullet at high speed and good distance. How the firearm is used by a human is another matter.

And that bullet was then suppose to do what exactly?

Why would someone go through all that trouble just to fire a bullet out of a barrel?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Coca Cola was developed as a medicine. And we all know everyone's encouraged to drink Coca Cola for medicinal purposes today.

Sadly that was not the case with firearms.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

For a guy who loves to throw around the term LOGIC - you make the very illogical error of pretending that cars which were invented for the purpose of transportation and firearms which were invented for the purpose of shooting others are the same thing.

So, you you are now the self-proclaimed expert on illogical and pretending identification?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

So, you you are now the self-proclaimed expert on illogical and pretending identification?

Where do you get this from? Never claimed to be the expert. I simply know the difference between a car and a firearm and know the difference between something created as a means of transportation and something meant as a weapon of death. And I know that those differences should prevent any logical person from using one to justify or excuse the other. If that is use of logic - so be it.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

And that bullet was then suppose to do what exactly?
Why would someone go through all that trouble just to fire a bullet out of a barrel?

So a gun is just a device for moving small pieces of lead around at high velocity nothing more :lol:

They circle their wagons to the point of wilful insanity in order to protect their gun fetish from any rational criticism . How do people get like this ?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

So a gun is just a device for moving small pieces of lead around at high velocity nothing more :lol:

They circle their wagons to the point of wilful insanity in order to protect their gun fetish from any rational criticism . How do people get like this ?

Good observation.

As to how people get like this ...... its a very willful belief system fueled by political ideology. As to how people get that - its your guess that is as good as anyones. ;)
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Good observation.

As to how people get like this ...... its a very willful belief system fueled by political ideology. As to how people get that - its your guess that is as good as anyones. ;)

I did two tours in Belfast and served in the Falklands war. At no time did I ever think that having my FN SLR rifle at home would be a good idea. Quite the contrary in fact because I have seen what they can do to people and its not neat and tidy just like on the TV either. I suspect Hollywood might have a lot to answer for with its endless glorification of the gun :(
 
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Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

I did two tours in Belfast and served in the Falklands war. At no time did I ever think that having my FN SLR rifle at home would be a good idea. Quite the contrary in fact because I have seen what they can do to people and its not neat and tidy just like on the TV either. I suspect Hollywood might have a lot to answer for with its endless glorification of the gun :(

That is some history you have there. I must say that being here in the States, the vast vast majority of American gun owners are very responsible who take their weapons seriously. They observe the basic rules of safety and security and are some of the more law abiding people in our nation.

I do not know how one stops the glorification of the gun. Its out there and I suspect it plays a role in the pushing of the gun culture in our nation and not for better.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Where do you get this from? Never claimed to be the expert. I simply know the difference between a car and a firearm and know the difference between something created as a means of transportation and something meant as a weapon of death. And I know that those differences should prevent any logical person from using one to justify or excuse the other. If that is use of logic - so be it.

Do you know the difference between a dead person killed by a car and a dead person killed by a bullet?

No, didnt think so. Dead is dead and the numbers show which are more dangerous.

Pedestrian/vehicle accidents are on the rise here too, not just car accidents. There's at least two if not more people hit by cars in the Seattle metro area every week.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Do you know the difference between a dead person killed by a car and a dead person killed by a bullet?

Yes and the answer is explained right in your question.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Yes and the answer is explained right in your question.

And no one's fighting to get cars out of American hands or further restrict their ownership and use, are they? Or trying to get them to drive less 'useful' cars? Or restrict more places where they can drive them?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

If a guy buys a Chevy Suburban, and then plows it through a crowd of people on a city corner killing a dozen or more people in the process, should the families of the deceased be able to sue Chevrolet????

Bad analogy. It's the estate of the negligent driver, not the manufacturer of the vehicle. Negligent behavior can be and has been punishable by lawsuits.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

I keep my guns locked up so they won't sneak out at night at massacre the horses or shoot up the local raccoon saloon.

Dude please write a book based on that. I'd read it in a heartbeat. :D
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

That is some history you have there. I must say that being here in the States, the vast vast majority of American gun owners are very responsible who take their weapons seriously. They observe the basic rules of safety and security and are some of the more law abiding people in our nation.

I do not know how one stops the glorification of the gun. Its out there and I suspect it plays a role in the pushing of the gun culture in our nation and not for better.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter how responsible a gun owner is when they have someone who is totally irresponsible living in the same house. This has happened countless times in the US Just like in the OP. Gun owners will then blame anything they can think of rather than the fact there were legally owned guns in the house in the first place. It doesn't matter whether the individual living in that house that did the killing was the actual owner or not. He knew where they were kept and how to get access to them. :(
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

And no one's fighting to get cars out of American hands or further restrict their ownership and use, are they? Or trying to get them to drive less 'useful' cars? Or restrict more places where they can drive them?

The continued comparison of cars and firearms is employing the fallacy of False Equivalency.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

It all depends. Like I said elsewhere the whole idea of suing someone is to compensate someone for a loss they suffered through the negligence of the person being sued. Whether or not you can compensate someone for a dead child is a completely different question.


That the negligent person is dead really doesn't matter. Someone still suffered a loss and should be paid for it. Look at it this way. Say someone T-boned you and you were injured and have hundreds of thousands in medical bills and are out of work for a year. The other driver is killed. You would not sue the other person (their estate anyway) because they're dead? You'd eat all those losses?

You're comparing apples and oranges, the owner of the estate being sued is dead and didn't shoot anyone.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

None of what you said negates the reality that firearms were made as a weapon to kill. When a person uses a firearm to shoot another person or creature, they are using it for its created purpose.

That is simply reality no matter how many people shoot at targets.

Guns made for and sold to US Citizens are not made for murdering people. They are made for hunting, defense, target practice, and competitions. No gun manufacture would nor has ever condoned a gun sold to a US citizen to be used in the use of murdering people. They will all vehemently agree that such use is not the intended use of their products.

Do you deny this?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

You're comparing apples and oranges, the owner of the estate being sued is dead and didn't shoot anyone.

But she had allowed the person who did do the shooting to stay in her home and it is probable too he may have always known where and how to access the firearms. As the mother there would have been nobody more aware of the latent predisposition of her own son so it could be argued that there is some culpability there

This sort of thing will keep happening again and again when firearms are kept in the home but nobody wants to hear that stateside. The legalities of the ownership are ultimately of no consequence one way or the other to the victims :(
 
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