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Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

VanceMack said:
Very nice! The debate equivalent of 'I know you are but what am I?" How...1st grade of you. Did someone have to help you type that too?
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Your comments were juvenile and nothing more than a deflectio from having to form a logical argument against what I stated. As such they applied to you far more than they applied to me. I can not help if you do not understand that.


VanceMack said:
Look...if you are the parent or guardian of a child, especially one that you know is very clearly demonstrating violent and aggressive tendencies, then you have an obligation to take reasonable steps to secure both the childs safety and that of those around him.
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Only if the law requires such.
And make no mistake their are some laws that require such.



VanceMack said:
Leaving a weapon which can reasonably be expected to be used to harm large numbers of people in a non-secured environment and within easy access to that individual makes you at LEAST civilly liable.
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What law says this?

Again. Pencils? Knifes? Hammers?

Nail gun?

You are being ridiculous.


VanceMack said:
But where you jump off the 'stupid' reservation and land squarely into 'retarded' is when you want to make the inane comparison of an AR15 with high capacity magazines to pencils.
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Wrong. That would be your stupid argument.
They are both tools which can do damage.

You do not hold another responsible for some one else's actions. Period.
The only person who should be held responsible is the person who did the act.


VanceMack said:
And if you are too stupid to understand that, ...
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Still acting like a juvenile I see.
Sad.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Moderator's Warning:
I'd suggest that everyone stop with the personal attacks and get back on the topic and addressing just what is said. And just to head it off at the pass...this includes side swipes.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Dragonfly said:
If a guy buys a Chevy Suburban, and then plows it through a crowd of people on a city corner killing a dozen or more people in the process, should the families of the deceased be able to sue Chevrolet????
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Actually if it was a guy with an expired or revoked license who acquired the car through a relative's carelessness, then yes, even if the relative who carelessly gave access to his vehicle is one of the crowd who is killed.

I am guessing that having your guns secure, particularly when you are aware of a son with mental and emotional issues, should be able to be expected, civilly if not criminally.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

EMNofSeattle said:
What legal principle can be applied to leaving a rifle accessible To a legal adult who was not prohibited from owning a gun?

This is a sham case IMO I don't see how they can prove the elements of negligence, considering there is some evidence the guns were locked. I am suprised there still is an estate this late in the game ....
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IIRC there was evidence that both the mother and father new he was having emotional and mental issues. I think that changes the dynamic quite a bit. Perhaps not in the criminal field, but certainly in the civil arena.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
IIRC there was evidence that both the mother and father new he was having emotional and mental issues. I think that changes the dynamic quite a bit. Perhaps not in the criminal field, but certainly in the civil arena.
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Parental liability/vicarious liability is a fairly well established legal precedent across the country (though applied somewhat differently in all 50 states). REASONABLE measures of security should be taken. Had that been done the tragedy MAY have still occurred...but it also may not have been. Adam Lanza running around trying to stab teachers carrying a box of number 2 yellow pencils and a spare sharpener probably wouldnt have had the same results as was seen with easy access to an AR15, handguns, a shotgun, and boxes and boxes of ammo.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

VanceMack said:
Parental liability/vicarious liability is a fairly well established legal precedent across the country (though applied somewhat differently in all 50 states). REASONABLE measures of security should be taken. Had that been done the tragedy MAY have still occurred...but it also may not have been. Adam Lanza running around trying to stab teachers carrying a box of number 2 yellow pencils and a spare sharpener probably wouldnt have had the same results as was seen with easy access to an AR15, handguns, a shotgun, and boxes and boxes of ammo.
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Are you suggesting that equal damage could be done with sharp pencils as an AR15? If you are, then you're not intelligent enough to discuss this with.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

MrVicchio said:
With you, yes, because you're not motivated by moral outrage just political opportunism.
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That makes no sense.
Political opportunism!?!?!?!?!?!? What am I benefitting politically from here by taking this position ? :roll::doh
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
Are you suggesting that equal damage could be done with sharp pencils as an AR15? If you are, then you're not intelligent enough to discuss this with.
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Given that pencils were in the school and an AR-15 was not.....
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

haymarket said:
That would depend on if the car was used for the purpose it was manufactured for.
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So you don't know what Chevy Suburbans were made for?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

cpwill said:
Given that pencils were in the school and an AR-15 was not.....
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Oh my you look at one possible aspect and disregard all the rest? Moronic at best. A person with pencils is easier to stop, less likely to cause death, will have to take waaaay more time to kill multiple individuals, etc.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
Are you suggesting that equal damage could be done with sharp pencils as an AR15? If you are, then you're not intelligent enough to discuss this with.
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Just the opposite. Thats why I said "Adam Lanza running around trying to stab teachers carrying a box of number 2 yellow pencils and a spare sharpener probably wouldnt have had the same results as was seen with easy access to an AR15, handguns, a shotgun, and boxes and boxes of ammo." Im glad you saw how silly that point was as well.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

SMTA said:
Protection from frivolous lawsuits and crooked lawyers is a good thing.

It is all about the money.
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Is it not about money when y'all scream about taxes or cutting benefits to the poor or wanting corporations to be considered people so they can finance the wingnut agenda?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

VanceMack said:
Just the opposite. Thats why I said "Adam Lanza running around trying to stab teachers carrying a box of number 2 yellow pencils and a spare sharpener probably wouldnt have had the same results as was seen with easy access to an AR15, handguns, a shotgun, and boxes and boxes of ammo." Im glad you saw how silly that point was as well.
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I must've misread, my bad and my apologies.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
Oh my you look at one possible aspect and disregard all the rest? Moronic at best. A person with pencils is easier to stop, less likely to cause death, will have to take waaaay more time to kill multiple individuals, etc.
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:shrug: if you want to not discuss this particular incident but aim at a more general rule, then the concept is the same. If you are responsible for what someone else does with your property after they steal it from you, then you are responsible for what someone does with your property after they steal it from you.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

cpwill said:
:shrug: if you want to not discuss this particular incident but aim at a more general rule, then the concept is the same. If you are responsible for what someone else does with your property after they steal it from you, then you are responsible for what someone does with your property after they steal it from you.
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I've always said the problem with conservatives is that they think the world revolves around simple math as you present here. Truth is, the world revolves around complex algebra with many variables. A gun is not the same as pencils. Taking an unsecured gun from a parent, is not stealing in the same way that stealing is usually considered, and so on. Simple math might make y'all feel better about your ignorance of reality, but it's still ignorance of reality nonetheless.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
I've always said the problem with conservatives is that they think the world revolves around simple math as you present here. Truth is, the world revolves around complex algebra with many variables.
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I've always said that the problem with Liberals is that they think that the world is so complex that it must be run by their feelings, when in fact it is so complex as to require a series of self-arising feedback mechanisms....

.... I mean, if we're going to swap meaningless statements' whose purpose is simply to attempt to tacitly or through implication denigrate each other....

A gun is not the same as pencils. Taking an unsecured gun from a parent, is not stealing in the same way that stealing is usually considered, and so on
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On the contrary. Taking someone else's property that they did not grant you permission to take and which you do not have a right to take is indeed stealing. Simply saying "oh it's different" and "it's complex" is merely another way of saying "I feel differently about it" an "but I can't explain it in a way that makes logical sense and would hold up to cross-examination."
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

cpwill said:
I've always said that the problem with Liberals is that they think that the world is so complex that it must be run by their feelings, when in fact it is so complex as to require a series of self-arising feedback mechanisms....

.... I mean, if we're going to swap meaningless statements' whose purpose is simply to attempt to tacitly or through implication denigrate each other....



On the contrary. Taking someone else's property that they did not grant you permission to take and which you do not have a right to take is indeed stealing. Simply saying "oh it's different" and "it's complex" is merely another way of saying "I feel differently about it" an "but I can't explain it in a way that makes logical sense and would hold up to cross-examination."
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You can accuse most liberals of worrying about "feelings," I agree. But you should know better by now that I am a heartless bitch.
Sorry, but I've rarely seen anyone suggest that using something of a parent's that was not secured in a home they had legal access to as being "stealing" unless or until something bad occurs due to the use of the item.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
You can accuse most liberals of worrying about "feelings," I agree. But you should know better by now that I am a heartless bitch.
Sorry, but I've rarely seen anyone suggest that using something of a parent's that was not secured in a home they had legal access to as being "stealing" unless or until something bad occurs due to the use of the item.
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:shrug: if they take it, it is stealing. Sadly, people steal from parents, step-parents, and the like all the time :(.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

cpwill said:
:shrug: if they take it, it is stealing. Sadly, people steal from parents, step-parents, and the like all the time :(.
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Whatever rationale you have to blow up your own ass to let careless parents off the hook for the damage caused by their carelessness.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

BrewerBob said:
Well, she did die.
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Too bad she was murdered by her unstable son. If all victims sued gun owners or their estate maybe some decent laws curtailing the lot of so many guns would get passed. What was this woman thinking to house so many guns in her home? Why did she feel the need to be so surrounded? Guess it's too late to find out now.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
Is it not about money when y'all scream about taxes or cutting benefits to the poor or wanting corporations to be considered people so they can finance the wingnut agenda?
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What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Summerwind said:
Whatever rationale you have to blow up your own ass to let careless parents off the hook for the damage caused by their carelessness.
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:roll: Says the woman who probably has left a parked car (which kills far more many people) carelessly unattended thousands of times in her life.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

SMTA said:
What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
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Nothing, it's an ad hominem mixed with a whattaboutism.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Atiya said:
Too bad she was murdered by her unstable son. If all victims sued gun owners or their estate maybe some decent laws curtailing the lot of so many guns would get passed. What was this woman thinking to house so many guns in her home? Why did she feel the need to be so surrounded? Guess it's too late to find out now.
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Define "so many" and "surrounded".
 
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