• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I'm certainly not surprised. It was inevitable due to the race baiting by Holder. He has done a bang up job painting every white cop a racist. It is sickening to watch it all unfold. From the friggin race ambulance chaser Al Sharpton to Obama to Holden along with every leftist special interest group that have ratcheted up the frenzy. I hope there is a special place in Hell for people like that.

To be fair, you have to give the media some of the credit. I mean every time there is a shooting of a black suspect by a white cop it is all over the news so these little brains can say "well there is another one over there".
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

To find out that Pine Lawn is not even five miles away with a record of targeting whites wasn't included in Holder's report to give an accurate account of racial bias in the area, speaks volumes.
Whites will remain silent while carefully containing their thoughts and experiences.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

To be fair, you have to give the media some of the credit. I mean every time there is a shooting of a black suspect by a white cop it is all over the news so these little brains can say "well there is another one over there".

Oh absolutely!
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Goooooood Morning F&L

Well for starters, go back to the report in the way they worded covering the stops made on traffic violations. Sounds bad until you discover that the State of Missouri allows up to 30% of revenue from traffic tickets. Ferguson doesn't come close but currently several predominately black cities in Missouri who have black mayors are in violation of state law for over ticketing. The stats that really blow one away are that of Pine Lawn.....who has a black mayor/city council.

Pine Lawn Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 19.32

1.42% of population is White

27.5 % of the traffic stops are White

Pine Lawn’s Director of Public Safety (Police Chief) and their City Prosecutor “moonlights” as the Attorney for Michael Brown’s family.

I looked up the distance between Pine Lawn and Ferguson Missouri, the distance is 4.7 miles.

And it is a fine morning, thank you. It would be better if we were not dealing with the attempted assassinations of two police officers, but life is as they say...

A blogger cherry picking does not undermine anything for me. Those who will never believe this report will though.

It is a couple of lines in a 102 page report on a six month study. In the overall, when you have city councilors pressing police for more revenue, when that revenue is higher than normal to begin with and is coming from the poorest people, there is a problem. A problem that was allowed to fester and became a riot and is now a war, with snipers.

I want this on the record again....I do not give ONE fiddler's **** who is to blame for what Ferguson has become. I do care that it doesn't look like anything is going to get fixed.

But here is a sample of finding kind of illustrating what was the situation in Ferguson.............







Ferguson Law Enforcement Practices Disproportionately Harm Ferguson’s African-American Residents and Are Driven in Part by Racial Bias Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices disproportionately harm African Americans

Further, our investigation found substantial evidence that this harm stems in part from intentional discrimination in violation of the Constitution. African Americans experience disparate impact in nearly every aspect of Ferguson’s law enforcement system. Despite making up 67% of the population, African Americans accounted for 85% of FPD’s traffic stops, 90% of FPD’s citations, and 93% of FPD’s arrests from 2012 to 2014. Other statistical disparities, set forth in detail below, show that in Ferguson:


African Americans are 2.07 times more likely to be searched during a vehicular stop but are 26% less likely to have contraband found on them during a search. They are 2.00 times more likely to receive a citation and 2.37 times more likely to be arrested following a vehicular stop.


African Americans have force used against them at disproportionately high rates, accounting for 88% of all cases from 2010 to August 2014 in which an FPD officer reported using force. In all 14 uses of force involving a canine bite for which we have information about the race of the person bitten, the person was African American.


African Americans are more likely to receive multiple citations during a single incident, receiving four or more citations on 73 occasions between October 2012 and July 2014, whereas non-African Americans received four or more citations only twice during that period.


African Americans account for 95% of Manner of Walking charges; 94% of all Fail to Comply charges; 92% of all Resisting Arrest charges; 92% of all Peace Disturbance charges; and 89% of all Failure to Obey charges.



African Americans are 68% less likely than others to have their cases dismissed by the Municipal Judge, and in 2013 African Americans accounted for 92% of cases in which an arrest warrant was issued.

That report is too in depth and overwhelming to dismiss based on a blogger's interpretation of the figures.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

It seems that Whites are less prone to complain about racism.

I suppose you think that's profound. It's certainly a racist comment. Perhaps if they had the recent history of slavery and oppression, white Americans would be more sensitive to it as well.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Nothing is going to get "fixed" until political activists are no longer running the DOJ.

Yeah I know. Because republicans are never political activists. It's racist of you to deny the racism documented in the report. Why wouldn't you want to see racism purged from the FPD or any PD?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Ok. I was trying to determine if you knew who was responsible for hiring and firing the Ferguson police chief. And you don't. Clue, it's not Holder.

I didn't know anyone suggested that the police chief of Ferguson, Missouri was hired (and fired) by the US Attorney General. Who did that?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I assume you meant prosecution. Yes, there are culpable citizens, many of which were caught on film destroying property. They need to be prosecuted. But they aren't representative of the entire city.

Prosecuted, not persecuted. Auto correct. Did someone suggest that they are representative of the entire city?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

You have no way of knowing who the shooters are so you cannot say they were not part of the protest.

Yes, the shooters could have been protesters, they could have been Black Panther provocateurs or other provocateurs.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Last night, when the reporter for FNC interviewed a 42 year old lady protesting last night, who was there at the shooting, he asked what she thought, or what she felt when she witnessed the shooting, and her answer was that she felt "nothing"... She went on to explain that she was sure that they felt sorrow for the falling of their own, just as they do, but that when they put on that uniform they are in her own words, "not human".... Is this what we want in this country? Really?

Please tell me this isn't true.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Prosecuted, not persecuted. Auto correct. Did someone suggest that they are representative of the entire city?

It depends on the power of suggestion.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I didn't know anyone suggested that the police chief of Ferguson, Missouri was hired (and fired) by the US Attorney General. Who did that?

I thought it was you that asked why Holder hadn't fired the racists in the FPD, no?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I thought it was you that asked why Holder hadn't fired the racists in the FPD, no?

And I assumed you knew I was being facetious. Apparently not.

But that said, Holder got involved, he produced the report, he outlined what needs to be done. Now what? Sit back and say "Good luck"? He got the citizens of Ferguson worked up that they have enormous problems in their police ranks. The protests are starting again. Police officers are being shot in the neck and shoulders. Should he just turn his back and let whatever happens, happen?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

You need to read the comments under the link.


Regarding comments under a post, like DP its not really a good representation of anything other than adsholes and opinions. ;)
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

there are far more "deranged" government people you should be worried about.

Boston-Martial-Law-Turret.jpg




bbut bbut that's different, right?


The Government points guns at us far far more than we point guns at them,

Now, if you did not know those were cops would you not think they are the military? With that said I laugh out loud at people that speak of revolution. How far do you think this government is willing to go to preserve the status quo??!!
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Nothing is going to get "fixed" until political activists are no longer running the DOJ.

Nothing will be fixed until we end this pathetic partisanship that prevents us from examining the actual dynamics of problems we face. The sickening level of finger pointing is just evidence of how far we've fallen. People want to use the deaths as cheap political points instead of looking at the system of government force we employ against the People and determining if there are some systematic problems that need to be addressed. Sickening.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Yeah I know. Because republicans are never political activists. It's racist of you to deny the racism documented in the report. Why wouldn't you want to see racism purged from the FPD or any PD?

No, it's really not racism to deny a report that is skewed to a predetermined conclusion. That said, let's suppose the report has it dead on. How do you do your purge? Stop pulling over people of color? A sort of reverse racial profiling? Stack the department with people of color regardless of their qualifications?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

And it is a fine morning, thank you. It would be better if we were not dealing with the attempted assassinations of two police officers, but life is as they say...

A blogger cherry picking does not undermine anything for me. Those who will never believe this report will though.

It is a couple of lines in a 102 page report on a six month study. In the overall, when you have city councilors pressing police for more revenue, when that revenue is higher than normal to begin with and is coming from the poorest people, there is a problem. A problem that was allowed to fester and became a riot and is now a war, with snipers.

I want this on the record again....I do not give ONE fiddler's **** who is to blame for what Ferguson has become. I do care that it doesn't look like anything is going to get fixed.

But here is a sample of finding kind of illustrating what was the situation in Ferguson.............







Ferguson Law Enforcement Practices Disproportionately Harm Ferguson’s African-American Residents and Are Driven in Part by Racial Bias Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices disproportionately harm African Americans

Further, our investigation found substantial evidence that this harm stems in part from intentional discrimination in violation of the Constitution. African Americans experience disparate impact in nearly every aspect of Ferguson’s law enforcement system. Despite making up 67% of the population, African Americans accounted for 85% of FPD’s traffic stops, 90% of FPD’s citations, and 93% of FPD’s arrests from 2012 to 2014. Other statistical disparities, set forth in detail below, show that in Ferguson:


African Americans are 2.07 times more likely to be searched during a vehicular stop but are 26% less likely to have contraband found on them during a search. They are 2.00 times more likely to receive a citation and 2.37 times more likely to be arrested following a vehicular stop.


African Americans have force used against them at disproportionately high rates, accounting for 88% of all cases from 2010 to August 2014 in which an FPD officer reported using force. In all 14 uses of force involving a canine bite for which we have information about the race of the person bitten, the person was African American.


African Americans are more likely to receive multiple citations during a single incident, receiving four or more citations on 73 occasions between October 2012 and July 2014, whereas non-African Americans received four or more citations only twice during that period.


African Americans account for 95% of Manner of Walking charges; 94% of all Fail to Comply charges; 92% of all Resisting Arrest charges; 92% of all Peace Disturbance charges; and 89% of all Failure to Obey charges.



African Americans are 68% less likely than others to have their cases dismissed by the Municipal Judge, and in 2013 African Americans accounted for 92% of cases in which an arrest warrant was issued.

That report is too in depth and overwhelming to dismiss based on a blogger's interpretation of the figures.


But did the report focus on the increase in gang activity in the St. Louis area that are predominantly black which would include suburbs of St. Louis? No it did not. Did it address the reasons for the arrests? No it did not. So who is playing with statistics? Ferguson is 8 miles from St. Louis.

News 4 Investigates: The Gang Life | KMOV.com St. Louis

Ferguson is over 60% black and already had a growing gang culture.
http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-recruitment-boon-gangs-265884

Many estimates for the number of gangs come in at 80-100 for the St. Louis area overwhelmingly black. In that type of atmosphere it is not far fetched to reason there would be a high rate of criminal arrests of blacks in that area.

;) Have a good one F&L
 
Last edited:
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

But did the report focus on the increase in gang activity in the St. Louis area that are predominantly black which would include suburbs of St. Louis? No it did not. Did it address the reasons for the arrests? No it did not. So who is playing with statistics? Ferguson is 8 miles from St. Louis.

News 4 Investigates: The Gang Life | KMOV.com St. Louis

Ferguson is over 60% black and already had a growing gang culture.
http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-recruitment-boon-gangs-265884

Many estimates for the number of gangs come in at 80-100 for the St. Louis area overwhelmingly black. In that type of atmosphere it is not far fetched to reason there would be a high rate of criminal arrests of blacks in that area.

;) Have a good one F&L



I will, thanks V...

Clearly we are never going to agree on this one. I was with you until I heard in depth coverage and then read it. It is unreasonable to assume that everything that comes out of the Obama administration is ****ed up. Most yes, but not this, there are high profile attorney's with careers on the line on this, to simply dismiss it as political and racist on that basis is not reasonable.

You have a fine day as well. The weather here is sunny, going into the 70's and I hear this beach calling.....

Cheers.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I suppose you think that's profound. It's certainly a racist comment. Perhaps if they had the recent history of slavery and oppression, white Americans would be more sensitive to it as well.
No, what's really racist is to allow private schools for prosperous Blacks and Whites while eliminating school choice for poverty stricken Black neighborhoods. And your knee-jerk response with 'racism' is why many non Black people don't like to get involved in the discussion about problems within the Black Community.
We know it's there, it's visible, but we self censor.

Race hustlers like Sharpton, Obama, Jackson, Holder, and the NAACP do more harm perpetuating the inferiority of Blacks (Affirmative Action is an example) then than doing everything they can, for political and financial reasons I believe, to advance the situation for Blacks in America.

Obama Wrong on D.C. School Vouchers and Hypocritical, Just Like Congress - US News

Get Over It...Democratic Liberals Have Failed the Black Community - Deneen Borelli
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

No, what's really racist is to allow private schools for prosperous Blacks and Whites while eliminating school choice for poverty stricken Black neighborhoods. And your knee-jerk response with 'racism' is why many non Black people don't like to get involved in the discussion about problems within the Black Community.
We know it's there, it's visible, but we self censor.

Race hustlers like Sharpton, Obama, Jackson, Holder, and the NAACP do more harm perpetuating the inferiority of Blacks (Affirmative Action is an example) then than doing everything they can, for political and financial reasons I believe, to advance the situation for Blacks in America.

Obama Wrong on D.C. School Vouchers and Hypocritical, Just Like Congress - US News

Get Over It...Democratic Liberals Have Failed the Black Community - Deneen Borelli
Great piece by Deneen Borelli. Thanks for posting it.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

It depends on the power of suggestion.

Then you have to ask the people who suggested it what they meant by it. That doesn't involve me. I never suggested the entire city is involved in the rioting. In fact, I'm sure that most aren't. Especially the ones who own businesses there or work in the city. Business owners don't want their town wrecked.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

And I assumed you knew I was being facetious. Apparently not.

But that said, Holder got involved, he produced the report, he outlined what needs to be done. Now what? Sit back and say "Good luck"? He got the citizens of Ferguson worked up that they have enormous problems in their police ranks. The protests are starting again. Police officers are being shot in the neck and shoulders. Should he just turn his back and let whatever happens, happen?

Why are you being coy about this? It's not the AG's job to implement anything in Ferguson. The city council, city attorney and the mayor need to work together to implement Holders report recommendations in order to eliminate the abuse, lawlessness and constitutional disparities within the FPD. Then they need to guide the police department to build the trust and confidence of the citizenry so that they won't view the police as unhuman when they put on a uniform. Why are your knickers twisted about your neck over this. Why are you opposed to seeing a police department cleaned up and rid of corruption, it makes no sense?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Why are you being coy about this? It's not the AG's job to implement anything in Ferguson. The city council, city attorney and the mayor need to work together to implement Holders report recommendations in order to eliminate the abuse, lawlessness and constitutional disparities within the FPD. Then they need to guide the police department to build the trust and confidence of the citizenry so that they won't view the police as unhuman when they put on a uniform. Why are your knickers twisted about your neck over this. Why are you opposed to seeing a police department cleaned up and rid of corruption, it makes no sense?

So in other words, the DOJ does a big investigation (at their own behest), says that racism and corruption is rampant in the city, gave pages of suggestions of what needs to be done, and then just walks away. Got it.

I'm not being coy. You're the one who's saying this. And it's only in your imagination that I oppose seeing the PD in Ferguson cleared out. In fact, I've said the opposite many times in this thread. I even said the entire force should be transferred and an entirely new one brought in. When I said that, you said it wasn't fair to transfer non-corrupt cops. Are you not reading my posts and do you not remember your own rebuttal to my posts?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

No, it's really not racism to deny a report that is skewed to a predetermined conclusion. That said, let's suppose the report has it dead on. How do you do your purge? Stop pulling over people of color? A sort of reverse racial profiling? Stack the department with people of color regardless of their qualifications?

Right, so many people making comments on a report they haven't read. The report, so you'll know, doesn't just point out disparities in pull overs. There's far more trouble in the FPD than just that. There's also a culpable and corrupt court. At the end of the report are listed all the recommendations that should be implemented to clean up this corrupt department.
 
Back
Top Bottom