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Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I've never been to Ferguson. Never claimed to. I only know what I see on the news and what I read in Holder's report.

What did you see as the other prevailing issues that cause the problems there? And how much improvement will there be in the lives of the citizens when the problems within the PD are fixed? Will there be capital investments in the town to replace the businesses that were destroyed in the name of protest last year?

One can hope that after the city cleans up its corrupt court that people will be prosecuted for destruction of property. And the mayor's working on attracting business to the community. Once the departments cleaned up, people's lives will improve in terms of their commute for sure.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Yes, I did know that. I left off an important ? After "the city manager resigned"

So now that they both resigned, what about the other corrupt individuals? And again, why can't they be named in the report?

Although I think the Chief resigned because he was pissed, not because he admitted any wrongdoing. Not sure about the City Manager.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

One can hope that after the city cleans up its corrupt court that people will be prosecuted for destruction of property. And the mayor's working on attracting business to the community. Once the departments cleaned up, people's lives will improve in terms of their commute for sure.

Okay, fair enough. I agree with all of this. Especially the persecution of the ones who destroyed property.

But what about the citizens, Monte. Do you think they had any culpability here?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

So now that they both resigned, what about the other corrupt individuals? And again, why can't they be named in the report?

Although I think the Chief resigned because he was pissed, not because he admitted any wrongdoing. Not sure about the City Manager.

Ok. I was trying to determine if you knew who was responsible for hiring and firing the Ferguson police chief. And you don't. Clue, it's not Holder.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Okay, fair enough. I agree with all of this. Especially the persecution of the ones who destroyed property.

But what about the citizens, Monte. Do you think they had any culpability here?

I assume you meant prosecution. Yes, there are culpable citizens, many of which were caught on film destroying property. They need to be prosecuted. But they aren't representative of the entire city.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I assume you meant prosecution. Yes, there are culpable citizens, many of which were caught on film destroying property. They need to be prosecuted. But they aren't representative of the entire city.

Of course you are correct when you say that they are not representative of the entire city, although I don't recall any rational argument saying such...In any case, what they are is a misinformed mob, still calling for mob rule, one way or another, and that can not stand. It is a real shame that in this time when a President, and Atty Gen, whom are both black, and could make a specific difference in calming the misinformed, instead choose to mire the whole thing in false narrative, and use political profit as motivation, instead of community unity. A man, that in the President's case, has never left the streets of Chicago, and community organizing, and race baiting.

Flowery language, and cheap, weak placation's to law and order don't fool me.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Yeah, but that's the tracks it looks like it'll be going down. DOJ's report has been rendered, clear indications of things that need to change, personnel changes in leadership roles that need to change, and, as much as I'd hate to say it, sensitivity training, . . . a complete reorganization. It's unavoidable at this point.

So who manages and administers that? I'm not thinking that it'd be the Dali Lama and the Swiss army. I'm thinking that it'll be the DOJ, or am I all wrong on this?



Agreed, Canadian peacekeepers are not coming to Ferguson.

Frankly the idea of THIS doj involved in this is rather frightening, Holder and Obama have so much lost the confidence of the people that that would get push back; this is the problem with Obama's constant need to fight his "enemies"...even this report is being challenged simply because it was ordered by holder.

All those things are needed, 'sensitivity training' has a bad rap, but when you have had decades of brutal enforcement in what has been a massive money gathering scheme by the city some eyes need to be opened, you don't beat on a boy who's girlfriend is lying there bleeding because he didn't move away fast enough, then charge him with over a $1,000 in fines, three days in jail. I know a dozen people, right now, perfect for the job, one of them is our police chief, Jim Chu.

Were me I would go to the third branch, the courts and find a retired or sitting judge with an unblemished reputation and give him free reign. Whatever happens now, it has to be seen top be impartial, unbiased and non-partisan, whoever it is will have to offer some sensitivity training to the mobs, the politicians and the cops. As I said in my first post......Everyone is to blame here
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

You talk about not make it a "us vs. them" and transcending politics, and then you post that.

Like I said, many can't transcend politics.

Oh, like you have?

The SOLUTION has to transcend politics, the politicians, like "enemies" Obama have to get the **** out of this.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Alex Jones?

Aside from one moron shouting “Acknowledgement nine months ago would have kept that from happening,” where and when exactly was all this "celebrating" from lots of people?

Last night, when the reporter for FNC interviewed a 42 year old lady protesting last night, who was there at the shooting, he asked what she thought, or what she felt when she witnessed the shooting, and her answer was that she felt "nothing"... She went on to explain that she was sure that they felt sorrow for the falling of their own, just as they do, but that when they put on that uniform they are in her own words, "not human".... Is this what we want in this country? Really?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Last night, when the reporter for FNC interviewed a 42 year old lady protesting last night, who was there at the shooting, he asked what she thought, or what she felt when she witnessed the shooting, and her answer was that she felt "nothing"... She went on to explain that she was sure that they felt sorrow for the falling of their own, just as they do, but that when they put on that uniform they are in her own words, "not human".... Is this what we want in this country? Really?

No, it's not. What a travesty the FPD has been that has caused such fear and hate amongst the cities citizens.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Last night, when the reporter for FNC interviewed a 42 year old lady protesting last night, who was there at the shooting, he asked what she thought, or what she felt when she witnessed the shooting, and her answer was that she felt "nothing"... She went on to explain that she was sure that they felt sorrow for the falling of their own, just as they do, but that when they put on that uniform they are in her own words, "not human".... Is this what we want in this country? Really?

Yeah, there was one other guy they talked to who said it was a set up by the cops and that they took their own guys out to gin up sympathy and undermine the black victimization movement or something along those lines.

When you've got a "cause" as misguided as this Black Lives Matter thing is it attracts lunatics like moths to a flame.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

It's actually hilarious how much work you're doing to deny the obvious - the police department is/was corrupt and racist.

It's not that there was a few bad apples in that department. They beat an innocent man doing nothing wrong, charged HIM with the just breathtaking crime of BLEEDING ON THE JACK BOOTED THUGS WHO BEAT HIM, and when he later sued they lied in the deposition, and then after the suit was filed, charged the victim of abuse with assault of a police officer. And of course they deleted the surveillance tape. So their response to wrongdoing was to commit more wrongdoing to cover up the previous wrongdoing - double down on the corruption. I'm sorry, but by any rational measure that's the sign of a department that's corrupt (at least if not also obviously racist) from top to bottom.

And you don't think this attitude and corruption was well known to the population before Brown was shot? It's funny in a very sick way that anyone can believe that.

Morning JasperL.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And my opinion, it is a fool that accepts this report as being an accurate depiction of the FPD given Holder's record of politicizing the DOJ and his record for race baiting, his record for a number of judges rebuking him for his "interpretation" of the law. It's a fool that doesn't weigh these facts especially when those in charge of the civil rights department at the DOJ are all left activist attorneys. It's a fool that also doesn't take into consideration that this man has an agenda with his records of acts like praising Al Sharpton the biggest race baiter of our time for his tireless work.

But today while surfing, I came across this blog written by an African American and he calls Eric Holder out on his racism using the records from the MO atty. gen. website

"
Racial Profiling Statistics


- Disparity Index = Optimal number is 1, below 1 means group is underrepresented in the sample. Over 1 means over represented in the sample.


State Average – Disparity Index against African-American – 1.59


Ferguson Police Department

Disparity Index against African Americans – 1.37

63% of population is African-American

86% % of the traffic stops are African American


Below are Communities run by black City Councils/Mayor


Pine Lawn Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 19.32

1.42% of population is White

27.5 % of the traffic stops are White


[Author’s note:] Here’s an interesting factoid on Pine Lawn: Pine Lawn’s Director of Public Safety (Police Chief) and their City Prosecutor “moonlights” as the Attorney for Michael Brown’s family.


Berkeley Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 2.69

15% of population is White

42 % of the traffic stops are White"





DOJ pulls a "Lois Lerner" on Ferguson | The Black Sphere | TheBlackSphere.net | The Black Sphere | TheBlackSphere.net
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Last night, when the reporter for FNC interviewed a 42 year old lady protesting last night, who was there at the shooting, he asked what she thought, or what she felt when she witnessed the shooting, and her answer was that she felt "nothing"... She went on to explain that she was sure that they felt sorrow for the falling of their own, just as they do, but that when they put on that uniform they are in her own words, "not human".... Is this what we want in this country? Really?

So still, is that 'alot' of people celebrating?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

So, again, why aren't people who tolerate corruption themselves corrupt. That should be easy to answer. I think the opposite personally, and will say why. If you tolerate corruption, you accept it. If you are a passive observer of a crime and do nothing to stop it, you are not an honest person.

So if the members of the force saw corruption and did nothing, why are you so convinced that they should keep their jobs, and that it won't happen again? I'm not.

First of all, this is a side issue - a throw away comment to another person who made a similar throw away comment. So of course that's what you pick to focus on. It's the "drag this conversation down a rat hole" method.

Second, there are good people in every corrupt organization. Some people claim that the DOJ is corrupt. If Holder is (and let's assume it is PROVED and KNOWN within DOJ for this purpose), it's literally insane to argue that all those who remain in DOJ, even people with 15 years, career officials, are also corrupt. Some with strong morals and the ability and willingness to risk their job, and future jobs, will directly challenge corruption. Others for lots of reasons will choose to do their job in an ethical way, and survive - provide for their family, do their best to protect the community in Ferguson, maybe try in small ways to change the culture or to alleviate the worst of it. Etc.

So no, it's not a fair assumption that all 55 cops are corrupt because some number of them are. Recognizing that good people will be unwilling or unable to challenge the system is just living in the REAL WORLD instead of the black and white world where you are either corrupt OR you put your family's livelihood and potentially your career in law enforcement on the line to directly challenge it. Or, at a time when decent jobs are hard to come by and you might be tied to the area because of family, your wife's job, etc. that all honest people will quit and hope to find as good a job somewhere else. Maybe providing for their kids takes priority. There are many reasons why people will simply do THEIR job ethically and tolerate it elsewhere in their job. Maybe they are like most of us and are good at self deception when it two important principles clash - provide for family OR quit over principle and hope it all works out....

But this is a different topic - but you've managed to take the discussion off the report and your deliberate unwillingness to get the point of it. Nice job...
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Morning JasperL.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And my opinion, it is a fool that accepts this report as being an accurate depiction of the FPD given Holder's record of politicizing the DOJ and his record for race baiting, his record for a number of judges rebuking him for his "interpretation" of the law. It's a fool that doesn't weigh these facts especially when those in charge of the civil rights department at the DOJ are all left activist attorneys. It's a fool that also doesn't take into consideration that this man has an agenda with his records of acts like praising Al Sharpton the biggest race baiter of our time for his tireless work.

But today while surfing, I came across this blog written by an African American and he calls Eric Holder out on his racism using the records from the MO atty. gen. website

"
Racial Profiling Statistics


- Disparity Index = Optimal number is 1, below 1 means group is underrepresented in the sample. Over 1 means over represented in the sample.


State Average – Disparity Index against African-American – 1.59


Ferguson Police Department

Disparity Index against African Americans – 1.37

63% of population is African-American

86% % of the traffic stops are African American


Below are Communities run by black City Councils/Mayor


Pine Lawn Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 19.32

1.42% of population is White

27.5 % of the traffic stops are White


[Author’s note:] Here’s an interesting factoid on Pine Lawn: Pine Lawn’s Director of Public Safety (Police Chief) and their City Prosecutor “moonlights” as the Attorney for Michael Brown’s family.


Berkeley Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 2.69

15% of population is White

42 % of the traffic stops are White"





DOJ pulls a "Lois Lerner" on Ferguson | The Black Sphere | TheBlackSphere.net | The Black Sphere | TheBlackSphere.net



Hi Lady V...

May I ask on what you base that opinion?

What evidence is there the report is doctored or exaggerated?

I have read the entire thing, has looked at the background and gathering of data, the side comments of those interviewed...

I was dismissive as well, until I heard a CBC program with interviews from the authors, people in Ferguson, lawyers who have faced these courts and sop on. It was that show that made me take a look at this and read it....

I have seen not one shred of evidence to indicate that report is in any way compromised and nothing to indicate that the descriptions and how they used the police as a money gathering tool. The figures are there, there is a paper trail.

If there is anything to indicate this is some kind of fraud, please let me know...because in your opinion I am a fool and if so, I need to correct that
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Alex Jones?

Aside from one moron shouting “Acknowledgement nine months ago would have kept that from happening,” where and when exactly was all this "celebrating" from lots of people?
You need to read the comments under the link.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Hi Lady V...

May I ask on what you base that opinion?

What evidence is there the report is doctored or exaggerated?

I have read the entire thing, has looked at the background and gathering of data, the side comments of those interviewed...

I was dismissive as well, until I heard a CBC program with interviews from the authors, people in Ferguson, lawyers who have faced these courts and sop on. It was that show that made me take a look at this and read it....

I have seen not one shred of evidence to indicate that report is in any way compromised and nothing to indicate that the descriptions and how they used the police as a money gathering tool. The figures are there, there is a paper trail.

If there is anything to indicate this is some kind of fraud, please let me know...because in your opinion I am a fool and if so, I need to correct that

Goooooood Morning F&L

Well for starters, go back to the report in the way they worded covering the stops made on traffic violations. Sounds bad until you discover that the State of Missouri allows up to 30% of revenue from traffic tickets. Ferguson doesn't come close but currently several predominately black cities in Missouri who have black mayors are in violation of state law for over ticketing. The stats that really blow one away are that of Pine Lawn.....who has a black mayor/city council.

Pine Lawn Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 19.32

1.42% of population is White

27.5 % of the traffic stops are White

Pine Lawn’s Director of Public Safety (Police Chief) and their City Prosecutor “moonlights” as the Attorney for Michael Brown’s family.

I looked up the distance between Pine Lawn and Ferguson Missouri, the distance is 4.7 miles.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Goooooood Morning F&L

Well for starters, go back to the report in the way they worded covering the stops made on traffic violations. Sounds bad until you discover that the State of Missouri allows up to 30% of revenue from traffic tickets. Ferguson doesn't come close but currently several predominately black cities in Missouri who have black mayors are in violation of state law for over ticketing. The stats that really blow one away are that of Pine Lawn.....who has a black mayor/city council.

Pine Lawn Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 19.32

1.42% of population is White

27.5 % of the traffic stops are White

Pine Lawn’s Director of Public Safety (Police Chief) and their City Prosecutor “moonlights” as the Attorney for Michael Brown’s family.

I looked up the distance between Pine Lawn and Ferguson Missouri, the distance is 4.7 miles.
It seems that Whites are less prone to complain about racism.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

It seems that Whites are less prone to complain about racism.

To find out that Pine Lawn is not even five miles away with a record of targeting whites wasn't included in Holder's report to give an accurate account of racial bias in the area, speaks volumes.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

You to are conflating the demonstration with the attempted murder of a peace officer. The protesters did not shoot at the cops...a person or persons did.

The Ferguson Police are investigating and seeking a person or persons involved....not a protest.

edit: ...Not Holder not race baiters. Remember personal responsibility? The person on persons that shot the police officers is responsible.

You have no way of knowing who the shooters are so you cannot say they were not part of the protest.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Goooooood Morning F&L

Well for starters, go back to the report in the way they worded covering the stops made on traffic violations. Sounds bad until you discover that the State of Missouri allows up to 30% of revenue from traffic tickets. Ferguson doesn't come close but currently several predominately black cities in Missouri who have black mayors are in violation of state law for over ticketing. The stats that really blow one away are that of Pine Lawn.....who has a black mayor/city council.

Pine Lawn Police Department

Disparity Index against Whites – 19.32

1.42% of population is White

27.5 % of the traffic stops are White

Pine Lawn’s Director of Public Safety (Police Chief) and their City Prosecutor “moonlights” as the Attorney for Michael Brown’s family.

I looked up the distance between Pine Lawn and Ferguson Missouri, the distance is 4.7 miles.

Does this mean that the problems at FPD shouldn't be fixed. Or does it mean that the problems at FPD should be fixed, and then we should move on to Pine Lawn?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Does this mean that the problems at FPD shouldn't be fixed. Or does it mean that the problems at FPD should be fixed, and then we should move on to Pine Lawn?

Nothing is going to get "fixed" until political activists are no longer running the DOJ.
 
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