Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

tres borrachos said:

I can't tell you. I don't live there, and I'm not the one declaring that the current police force is terrible and has to go. The local politicians there are all Democrats. Maybe they can say.

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eohrnberger said:

Kinda the point. Less incitation, fewer people killed and less property destruction. But I agree with you, paramount is the reduction in the violence and killing or attempted killing in this case.

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Peter King said:

No, but you not living there and me not living there does not change the fact that a study into the behavior of that police force proves that it is much much worse than just being terrible. Being terrible as a police force means you are really bad at doing your job, not when a police force is racist in just about any way shape or form.

And the local politicians are all democrats? Are you sure?

The mayor is a republican.

Mark J. Byrne Missouri is a member of the republican party

Kim Tihen is a former police officer who has a spotty history herself with police brutality issues

One of the other council men once gave money to the John Ashcroft campaign so republican affinities are found there too.

One council member gave to Obama so he is a democrat most likely

And one council member is a white former military man of whom I cannot find a political affiliation.

So in short, no you are not right, not all local politicians there are democrats. Sorry but that is just untrue. The mayor isn't and several other's are certainly not or possibly not. Also, the mayor happens to be a former police officer too. So maybe the police department has it's hooks into the city council and not the other way around.

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Fearandloathing said:

And to get there, as in any dispute, you need dialogue. To get dialogue you need trust.

And trust is a funny thing, most people do trust out of the gate, it is lost in most cases. And as the recovering alcoholic knows, you have to regain trust on the other people's terms and conditions. It will take humility on both sides, and a de-militarization at this point, perhaps some Canadian Peacekeepers.

But nothing will be accomplished by continuing the argument, and more people are going to die. These two officers have survived....

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Fearandloathing said:

And to get there, as in any dispute, you need dialogue. To get dialogue you need trust.

And trust is a funny thing, most people do trust out of the gate, it is lost in most cases. And as the recovering alcoholic knows, you have to regain trust on the other people's terms and conditions. It will take humility on both sides, and a de-militarization at this point, perhaps some Canadian Peacekeepers.

But nothing will be accomplished by continuing the argument, and more people are going to die. These two officers have survived....

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Fearandloathing said:

I agree, and the best way to change minds is to set an example. I have been saying in one way or another since my first post that the focus needs to be the fix and it appears a growing number of people agree. Arguing the same old "...the right is" and "...lefties this", which we all enjoy, don't get me wrong, but are pointless and irrelevant here.

We've had riots too. Not long ago millions of $ worth of damage was done in fires and looting because a band of spoiled privileged kids couldn't accept the outcome of game seven of the Stanley cup......

There was some bleating that "the police should have...." and "...they shouldn't have allowed street parties" but it faded when the horror of what had happened and how the reputation of our "world class city" status had been badly bruised. The the same Police Chief who was the bad guy for being too lax, Chief Constable Jim Chew, appealed to the public to go on line and view the hundreds of videos and pictures they had of the rioters so they could identify them and bring them to justice.

That is not to brag, but offer an example of humility instead instead of blame, and how to fix what's broken. A dysfunction family argues over the same problems again and again, a 'normal' family argues about one problem after another.....

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polgara said:

Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

In reading about the injuries to the policemen, I was shocked that both men suffered from head wounds! Those shots were not meant to main, but to kill! Thankfully they survived, but WTH makes it justifiable to kill someone only because they are a policeman, and to do it from ambush? Sick.....

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Fearandloathing said:

Snipers don't just get an impulse and try to kill. This was a set up, and likely NOT by the residents of the neighborhood. But that is not the issue, now. The main focus for the police is to restore confidence and calm. The whole "them vs us", "enemies" thing has to go away. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Canadian Peacekeepers. "Excuse moi, sil vous plait, monsieur, but would you be so kind as to put down that rifle? Non! Mais oui, as you wish, monsieur." Bang! Bang! Bang!

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vesper said:

That all sounds all well and good. But it does not identify what is behind this cop hatred mantra playing out in the country at this time. I have my hunch that the shooter of these two police officers will be a member of either an anarchist group or a Marxist group that have been associated with ratcheting up the riots in Ferguson and across this country in regard to the police. After all Alinsky did state to agitate and rub raw. And the funding to these groups have been traced to some very big leftist political activists, most prominently George Soros.

While you try to separate the political factor, it can not be done for the very DOJ/civil rights unit that produced the report, every single attorney in that department is of a leftist ideology or an activist. It appears to be a litmus test one much reach to join the team.

If you want act of humility and those done by example, may I suggest they start with the president and the Atty. General.

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eohrnberger said:

True enough. Perhaps reasonable mediation from the DOJ in the up coming interaction that they will no doubt lead, hopefully from a sense of middle ground and mediation, will help. At this point, it's all the most have left.

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Montecresto said:

How about you read the report, and then come in here with your opinion, in that order.

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tres borrachos said:

Oh. So there are some from both party. So write them an email and ask them why they aren't doing something.

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tres borrachos said:

Set up as in you think that someone set up the residents of Ferguson so it would appear that a Ferguson resident shot those 2 cops?

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ReverendHellh0und said:

Racial tensions were also inflamed by the media repeating "black victim", not talking much about the strong arm robbery, and the justice department and others calling this a racist attack with 0 evidence of it being so.

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Peter King said:

Well, might that not be better if that comes from the locals and not from you and/or me?

Anyway, my first post (and the only thing I wanted to say about this issue) was that it was immoral and unforgivable that 2 officers just doing their job are shot.

The rest sadly happened because someone made this about Holder and people made it look like it was forces outside of the police department in Ferguson that were at fault for the problems of that police force and that is not correct iMHO.

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Fearandloathing said:

Perhaps, but it had to be planned to a certain degree no? They were both shot in the head, that is not a rookie at the trigger. And if someone wanted to touch off another riot, for whatever reason....?

With the world focused on this town, anything is possible. Until there is an investigation, I would suggest state police or FBI, it is only speculation. But look how quickly the division explodes again.....the town is a powder keg and if someone wanted to start anything, it would not take much

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Fearandloathing said:

Lady V, it this "cop hatred" is equaled by the "hatred from cops" and it will become very understandable when you read the report. When people have been subjected to years of suppression through a corrupt police and court system, they ARE angry. It does no one any good if all that is achieved here is a continuation of the "them vs. us" debate that led to this ****ing nightmare in the first place. They're Americans, the cops, the people and the children trying to feel safe somewhere in all this warfare.

The enemy is in Iraq.

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tres borrachos said:

Careful. When I said that earlier today, it caused a poster to start a barrage of hyper hysterical posts.

7 emails in 7 years....and the most recent being 2011. Let's see some from 2015. Hell, 2014 would work. And if 7 emails in 7 years is enough to tell this country everything needed to condemn this entire force as being corrupt, racist people, I wonder what we would have seen in the many thousands of emails that a certain Secretary of State deleted and is holding captive in her server.

I'm sure there are bad seeds in the police force. I'm sure there are bad seeds in my town's police force. But the notion that the root cause of the crime in Ferguson is the PD, and they're sharing 7 emails as an example of that....and people are just bobbing their heads in agreement....damn mystifying.

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VanceMack said:

I'd bet there are more than a handful of racists in the DoJ. I dont know that anyone has ever said there are none. There is nothing excusable about their behavior. And...the end.

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NIMBY said:

I've got an eerie feeling man, as the weather gets warmer and the number of shootings goes up.
I was only 14-YO during the race riots n 1968 but I remember them vividly.
Just like the DEM Convention in Chicago that year which I rarely see discussed here.
Our lily white town had barricades up during the worst days of the riots.

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Montecresto said:

Trivialize the racist e-mails all you want. You're also not factoring in how many people these filthy e-mails were sent to who had themselves a good laugh as well, and failed to report them. The racism problem in the FPD is bigger than the tip you see. Read the JD's report, instead of speaking from ignorance and appearing to be a racist yourself!

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vesper said:

I read the report. The emails cited were not recent. The rest of it we are left to believe is an accurate account of their findings and not embellished or taken out of context. If the Atty Gen who himself who has been found to be lose with the laws he is suppose to uphold, whose reading of the law has received scathing rejections by federal judges and his antics overturned by the Supremes has a credibility problem. He is stepping down from his position at the DOJ for a reason. Now I am not saying that police never behave badly, but what is happening right now is by design. If Holder was really wanting to heal this community. He would not have published that report. Instead, he would have dealt with each issue internally. But he didn't choose to. Maybe you should ask yourself why?

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It is in part FPD officers’ approach to policing that leads them to violate the Constitution and FPD’s own policies . Officers across the country encounter drunkenness, passive defiance, and verbal challenges. But in Ferguson, officers have not been trained or incentivized to use de-escalation techniques to avoid or minimize force in these situations. Instead, they respond with impatience, frustration, and disproportionate force. FPD’s weak oversight of officer use of force, described in greater detail below, facilitates this abuse. Officers should be required to view the ECW as one tool among many, and “a weapon of need, not a tool of convenience.”

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The City closely monitors whether FPD’s enforcement efforts are bringing in revenue at the desired rate. Consistently over the last several years, the Police Chief has directly reported to City officials FPD’s successful efforts at raising revenue through policing, and City officials have continued to encourage those efforts and request regular updates. For example, in June 2010, at the request of the City, the Chief prepared a report comparing court revenues in Ferguson to court revenues for cities of similar sizes. The Chief’s email sending the report to the City Manager notes that, “of the 80 St. Louis County Municipal Courts reporting revenue, only 8, including Ferguson, have collections greater than one million dollars.”

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....there is evidence that this is due in part to intentional discrimination on the basis of race. Ferguson’s law enforcement practices overwhelmingly impact African Americans. Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African Americans account for 85% of vehicle stops, 90% of citations, and 93% of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67% of Ferguson’s population . African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search. African Americans are more likely to be cited and arrested following a stop regardless of why the stop was initiated and are more likely to receive multiple citations during a single incident. From 2012 to 2014, FPD issued four or more citations to African Americans on 73 occasions, but issued four or more citations to non-African Americans only twice. FPD appears to bring certain offenses almost exclusively against African Americans. For example, from 2011 to 2013, African Americans accounted for 95% of Manner of Walking in Roadway charges, and 94% of all Failure to Comply charges. Notably, with respect to speeding charges brought by FPD, the evidence shows not only that African Americans are represented at disproportionately high rates overall, but also that the disparate impact of FPD’s enforcement practices on African Americans is 48% larger when citations are issued not on the basis of radar or laser, but by some other method, such as the officer’s own visual assessment.
These disparities are also present in FPD’s use of force. Nearly 90% of documented force used by FPD officers was used against African Americans. In every canine bite incident for which racial information is available, the person bitten was African American.

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American said:

First they announced that Wilson was off the hook, which probably pissed off some people. Then they immediate announced the report results of systematic racism in the police department...............that was irresponsible. He should have known the risk of doing that.

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vesper said:

That all sounds all well and good. But it does not identify what is behind this cop hatred mantra playing out in the country at this time. I have my hunch that the shooter of these two police officers will be a member of either an anarchist group or a Marxist group that have been associated with ratcheting up the riots in Ferguson and across this country in regard to the police. After all Alinsky did state to agitate and rub raw. And the funding to these groups have been traced to some very big leftist political activists, most prominently George Soros.

While you try to separate the political factor, it can not be done for the very DOJ/civil rights unit that produced the report, every single attorney in that department is of a leftist ideology or an activist. It appears to be a litmus test one much reach to join the team.If you want acts of humility and those done by example, may I suggest they start with the president and the Atty. General.

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