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Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Which remains valid as well.
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Sense he likely isn't privy to the agreement that's being negotiated, no, it does not.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Montecresto said:
Sense he likely isn't privy to the agreement that's being negotiated, no, it does not.
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His point had nothing whatsoever to do with what is or is not in the terms under discussion, but rather with political skill.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Grant said:
So Netanyahu spoke to Congress and Putin invaded the Ukraine because they are racist?
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Are they? I guess you would know.

Wasn't Obama going to be more 'flexible' with Putin after the last election? What was that all about?
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I dunno, I thought he was going to be more flexible with Medvedev. Did your hero Putin kill him, too?

Which US foreign policy do you have in mind? I doubt Obama even has a foreign policy, but correct me if I'm wrong.
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As far as I can tell, his foreign policy is pretty much the same as GWBush's foreign policy...which was fine with conservatives when Bush was president.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
As far as I can tell, his foreign policy is pretty much the same as GWBush's foreign policy...which was fine with conservatives when Bush was president.
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Well, no. GWB's policy was not to abdicate responsibility in Iraq, and he would surely have given timely support to the early (and secular) Syrian opposition. There would likely have been no ISIS. Putin would certainly not have been so bold in Ukraine, and neither Israel nor our Arab allies would have been so skeptical of our dealings with Iran.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Well, no. GWB's policy was not to abdicate responsibility in Iraq, and he would surely have given timely support to the early (and secular) Syrian opposition. There would likely have been no ISIS. Putin would certainly not have been so bold in Ukraine, and neither Israel nor our Arab allies would have been so skeptical of our dealings with Iran.
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Forcing an election to put Nouri al-Maliki in office was an abdication of responsibility in Iraq.

Its' too bad that in 2004 in Fallajah, the US military didn't have any translators because it might have prevented the wholesale slaughter of Iraq civilians by US troops, which polarized public opinion in Iraq against them and helped give rise to ISIS....

"...The battle also pushed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi into the public spotlight as the best-known commander of anti-Coalition forces in Iraq, and brought public attention to the concept of a Sunni Triangle..."

First Battle of Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
Forcing an election to put Nouri al-Maliki in office was an abdication of responsibility in Iraq.

Its' too bad that in 2004 in Fallajah, the US military didn't have any translators because it might have prevented the wholesale slaughter of Iraq civilians by US troops, which polarized public opinion in Iraq against them and helped give rise to ISIS....

"...The battle also pushed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi into the public spotlight as the best-known commander of anti-Coalition forces in Iraq, and brought public attention to the concept of a Sunni Triangle..."

First Battle of Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​
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Maliki was the winner of a free election, and the conduct of the war in 2004 is not really on point.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Fletch said:
Why wouldnt Iran develop a nuke if they could?
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Iran wants, and sees themselves, as the next Persian empire. A nuke should would solidify their position in that endeavor.

Iran
The Iranian dream of a reborn Persian Empire | New York Post

Seems like they see themselves as sliding into the political leadership end of ISIS or something?

Yeah, a nuke sure would solidify them as a regional power, this nation that exports and supports terrorism on a daily basis. Trust them with a nuke? Are you crazy?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Maliki was the winner of a free election, and the conduct of the war in 2004 is not really on point.
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When discussing the origins of ISIS, it's spot on.

Knowing that Shiites were the majority in Iraq, it didn't take a genius to see who would win an election or who they were allied with. Your boy Bush practically handed Iraq to Iran on a silver platter by forcing that election on a population that believes in Sharia law more than it does democracy.
 
ProgressivPower said:
Can you believe that only 1/3rd of eligible voters voted in 2014.......with a big assist from GOP voter suppression efforts in Red States....yes sir the GOP is alive and well - in non presidential election years and when they block the vote......the final sands of the demographic hour glass are draining fast for the GOP.....soon to be a permanent minority party - never again to attain the white house.
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Which GOP voter suppression efforts?

Oh, you mean the verification of the eligibility of voters? How is it that verifying eligibility of voters suppression unless the voters aren't eligible?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
When discussing the origins of ISIS, it's spot on.

Knowing that Shiites were the majority in Iraq, it didn't take a genius to see who would win an election or who they were allied with. Your boy Bush practically handed Iraq to Iran on a silver platter by forcing that election.
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Oh don't be modest - Obama gets the credit for leaving a power vacuum for Iran on that count. That will be one to go in the Presidential Library along with Yemen, the Syrian "red line" and allowing Iran nukes. woot!
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
He's the President. The higher office always carries the greater obligation for leadership and a good example.
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And in that, Obama has been a really, really, poor choice, and has not raised to the standard or the need of the country.

Quite a winner you guys picked.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
When discussing the origins of ISIS, it's spot on.

Knowing that Shiites were the majority in Iraq, it didn't take a genius to see who would win an election or who they were allied with. Your boy Bush practically handed Iraq to Iran on a silver platter by forcing that election on a population that believes more in Sharia law than it does democracy.
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Iraq was always going to have a Shia government under any democratic regime. That's no more a policy choice than the Sun rising in the east. As for the Sunni insurgents, they were largely erased by the Surge in 2007 (and Zarqawi had already been killed). It was the surprising full withdrawal from Iraq in 2011 and the failure to support the Syrian opposition in early 2012 that created the space for ISIS.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

ProgressivPower said:
Who was it again that lied and obfuscated us into two wars? yeah.
nuff said.
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I believe the answer to that question was both parties in congress at the time, with the available information at that time, not just the implied 'blame Bush' here. Come now, you seem like you could muster better than this.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

eohrnberger said:
Iran wants, and sees themselves, as the next Persian empire. A nuke should would solidify their position in that endeavor.

Iran
The Iranian dream of a reborn Persian Empire | New York Post

Seems like they see themselves as sliding into the political leadership end of ISIS or something?

Yeah, a nuke sure would solidify them as a regional power, this nation that exports and supports terrorism on a daily basis. Trust them with a nuke? Are you crazy?
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Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

Since I'm not privy to the negotiations, I don't know what the goal is for either side. Are lifting the sanctions in return for something - I don't know what - our goal? I don't like the 10-year time span of this deal, because frankly I don't trust them. They haven't exactly been good neighbors for those countries around them, and they have made no bones about saying what their opinion is of the United States - we're the "Great Satan" - and they have stated that they would like to see Israel wiped off the map! Do we expect them to suddenly change their mind?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
As far as I can tell, his foreign policy is pretty much the same as GWBush's foreign policy...which was fine with conservatives when Bush was president.
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For about the first year of his first term, Obama basically kept going with whatever Bush had set up before leaving Office. I'm thinking he did that because he really didn't know a damned thing about foreign relations and it took him a while to figure out what to do. But after that, he's been doing his own thing...not anything Bush would have done.

Obama owns the messes he's created.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

eohrnberger said:
I believe the answer to that question was both parties in congress at the time, with the available information at that time, not just the implied 'blame Bush' here. Come now, you seem like you could muster better than this.
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:agree: I remember the impassioned speeches made by Pelosi, Kerry, Clinton and others about our need to go to war with Iraq. I can post them if necessary, but why take the time? They gave their approval by voting "YES," so that's history, and if blame is to be given, it has to be equally shared, IMO. No ducking this one after the fact!
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
Is that someone trying to sabotage US foreign policy because he hates his president more than he loves his country? I really have no idea what you're talking about.
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You do realize that the entirety of your accusation is hyper-inflated, righteous, emotional bull crap, right?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

polgara said:
Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

Since I'm not privy to the negotiations, I don't know what the goal is for either side. Are lifting the sanctions in return for something - I don't know what - our goal? I don't like the 10-year time span of this deal, because frankly I don't trust them. They haven't exactly been good neighbors for those countries around them, and they have made no bones about saying what their opinion is of the United States - we're the "Great Satan" - and they have stated that they would like to see Israel wiped off the map! Do we expect them to suddenly change their mind?
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Greetings, Lady Polgara. :2wave:

No, not really, and aggressive rhetoric such as this, isn't helping their case wanting to be trusted not to do any untoward with the weapon they'll surely build, given the chance.

polgara said:
:agree: I remember the impassioned speeches made by Pelosi, Kerry, Clinton and others about our need to go to war with Iraq. I can post them if necessary, but why take the time? They gave their approval by voting "YES," so that's history, and if blame is to be given, it has to be equally shared, IMO. No ducking this one after the fact!
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It's all in the official records, so I don't understand this constant 'Bush lied' meme, other than trying illegitimately to blame shift for political advantage.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

ProgressivPower said:
Who was it again that lied and obfuscated us into two wars? yeah.
nuff said.
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I think you are wrong about Iraq but that can be debated. If you're claiming anyone "lied and obfuscated" us into Afghanistan then you inhabit an alternate universe.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

In the end, this was just another one of boehner's desperate attempts to get it up.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

eohrnberger said:
And in that, Obama has been a really, really, poor choice,
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Who is 10^7654 times more competent than dumbya (which, of course, isn't saying much).
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Ockham said:
Oh don't be modest - Obama gets the credit for leaving a power vacuum for Iran on that count. That will be one to go in the Presidential Library along with Yemen, the Syrian "red line" and allowing Iran nukes. woot!
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A Shiite leader, elected by the majority Shiite exercising power and oppression over the Sunni minority...isn't a power vacume...in fact, it's quite the opposite. A sectarian civil war, gee, who didn't see that coming?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
A Shiite leader, elected by the majority Shiite exercising power and oppression over the Sunni minority...isn't a power vacume...in fact, it's quite the opposite.
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It is when that Shiite leader is left to their own devices and starts oppressing Sunni's.

Moot said:
A sectarian civil war, gee, who didn't see that coming?
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Obama did, both before and after. Remember the pleas for help in Syria and the "Assad must go"? That one was a good one!
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

solletica said:
Who is 10^7654 times more competent than dumbya (which, of course, isn't saying much).
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Certainly not Obama. In fact, I think the Bush the younger is a far more competent leader than Obama, at least he had experience in leading before he arrived in the White House. Can't say that about Obama.

But if you measure Bush's leadership against all the previous presidents, I figure he falls somewhere in the middle to middle bottom.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Iraq was always going to have a Shia government under any democratic regime. That's no more a policy choice than the Sun rising in the east. As for the Sunni insurgents, they were largely erased by the Surge in 2007 (and Zarqawi had already been killed). It was the surprising full withdrawal from Iraq in 2011 and the failure to support the Syrian opposition in early 2012 that created the space for ISIS.
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Iraq was never a democratic regime not even after US tried to force it to be one with that election. The US put the Shiite majority in power and they immediately started oppressing the Sunni minority...some even called it a sectarian civil war. Gee, who didn't see that coming?


"... According to the Failed States Index, produced by Foreign Policy magazine and the Fund for Peace, Iraq was one of the world's top 5 unstable states from 2005 to 2008.[29] A poll of top U.S. foreign policy experts conducted in 2007 showed that over the next 10 years, just 3% of experts believed the U.S. would be able to rebuild Iraq into a "beacon of democracy" and 58% of experts believed that Sunni–Shiite tensions would dramatically increase in the Middle East.[30][31]....

A multitude of groups formed the Iraqi insurgency, which arose in a piecemeal fashion as a reaction to local events, notably the realization of the U.S. military’s inability to control Iraq.[33]

Beginning in 2005 the insurgent forces coalesced around several main factions, including the Islamic Army in Iraq and Ansar al-Sunna.[34] Religious justification was used to support the political actions of these groups, as well as a marked adherence to Salafism, branding those against the jihad as non-believers. This approach played a role in the rise of sectarian violence.[35] The U.S. military also believe that between 5-10% of insurgent forces are non-Iraqi Arabs.[33]..."

Civil war in Iraq (2006​
 
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