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Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

Ah but if you take threats as exception:

"you can hang them from a tree"


If you say you can hang someone or a group of individuals from a tree is that or is it not a threat?



No, actually.

"I, we are going to hang YOU from a tree" is a threat.


you can hang from a tree, is ambiguous and not a threat no more than you can go **** yourself is about self sodimization.
 
Ah but if you take threats as exception:

"you can hang them from a tree"


If you say you can hang someone or a group of individuals from a tree is that or is it not a threat?

You asked me about someone issuing death threats against me or my family. That isn't the same thing as someone singing a song. In fact, there are "death threats" made in songs all the time. What about the Eminem song "Kill You". It's filled with "death threats" and other threats. Yet his First Amendment right to express himself using those words were upheld, In fact, his songs have been used in other SCOTUS cases. There is a very distinct difference between a direct threat and expressing oneself through lyrics. Unless someone can prove the jerks on that bus were directing those lyrics to a specific black person, how is it considered a direct threat?
 
Agreed. That's why we have it. It works all ways, and both ways. I detest it when college students burn the American flag in protest, but I will defend their right to do it. I detest it when an artist protests religion by displaying a crucifix in a jar of urine, but I will defend his right to do it. And so on. You have to take the good with the bad if you really believe we have a right to free speech. You don't get to pick and choose.

Can I burn a flag on YOUR lawn?
 
Ask your lawyer.

I did. Turns out, no. I don't have the right to use someone else's property as a platform for my free speech. That's why Fox News is not constitutionally obligated to host my "communism is great" show.
 
I did. Turns out, no. I don't have the right to use someone else's property as a platform for my free speech. That's why Fox News is not constitutionally obligated to host my "communism is great" show.

Fascinating. But since the topic of this thread isn't Fox News, communism, and using someone else's property as a platform for free speech, irrelevant. Maybe you can start a thread to talk about communism, Fox News and other people's property.
 
I somewhat agree but one has to live with the consequences of their words as well.

I am not disagreeing with what the university did. They have a right to not want that kind of thing at their university.

My only point is that people and America as a whole need to remember sometimes that free speech and freedom of expression are rights and should never be trampled on.

Besides, I would far rather these dicks expose themselves for the racist pigs they are - so they are out in the open - rather then talk in whispers and remain anonymous.
Muzzling racists just forces them into the shadows...I would rather they were out in the open.
 
I am not disagreeing with what the university did. They have a right to not want that kind of thing at their university.

My only point is that people and America as a whole need to remember sometimes that free speech and freedom of expression are rights and should never be trampled on.

Besides, I would far rather these dicks expose themselves for the racist pigs they are - so they are out in the open - rather then talk in whispers and remain anonymous.
Muzzling racists just forces them into the shadows...I would rather they were out in the open.

They aren't anonymous. Their names are out in the open and they've both made public statements.
 
I imagine that if this was 1915, you'd be a Democrat and all the "progressives" you decry and insult would be Republicans.
I wouldn't have even have been allowed to attend the Democratic convention in 1915, and sure as hell wouldn't have been associated with a party full of aging segregationists and wonderful new progressive ideals like eugenics. So thanks for your naive and narrow view of history, which is off topic but perhaps fitting given what *is* being discussed in this thread.
 
They aren't anonymous. Their names are out in the open and they've both made public statements.

Ummm...I know that...that is my point.

I want people like that out in the open...not hiding in shadows.

Freedom of expression/speech helps that.
 
Ummm...I know that...that is my point.

I want people like that out in the open...not hiding in shadows.

Freedom of expression/speech helps that.

How were they going to remain anonymous? Their families have been receiving death threats now that their names are out in the open.
 
I am not disagreeing with what the university did. They have a right to not want that kind of thing at their university.

My only point is that people and America as a whole need to remember sometimes that free speech and freedom of expression are rights and should never be trampled on.

Besides, I would far rather these dicks expose themselves for the racist pigs they are - so they are out in the open - rather then talk in whispers and remain anonymous.
Muzzling racists just forces them into the shadows...I would rather they were out in the open.

By the way, why are you okay with what the University did if you support Free Speech rights? And what right do you think the University has to punish someone for speech?
 
How were they going to remain anonymous? Their families have been receiving death threats now that their names are out in the open.

What are you blathering about?

When did I say they would or should be anonymous?

And as for death threats...that is very unfortunate which emphasizes my point...that these idiots should be allowed to express their ideas - no matter how repulsive - without fear for their lives.

Free speech is all important.
 
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What are you talking about?

When did I say they would or should be anonymous?

And as for death threats...that is very unfortunate which emphasizes my point...that these idiots should be allowed to express their ideas - no matter how repulsive - without fear for their lives.

Free speech is all important.

The fact that they are not anonymous is the reason they are receiving death threats. The fact that they are not anonymous is the reason their families are receiving death threats. You said it was good to have their names in the open, and not allow them to remain in the shadows. So why is it good that they're out in the open? So they can be threatened?
 
I can't understand what most of the 'death metal' musicians are saying but, pretty sure it has nothing to do with race.

Who cares if YOU can't understand it, children can and they eat it up like its candy. Welcome to the internet for the sake of this discussion you could have looked up lyrics - But I will go ahead and do that for you.


Devourment – Baby Killer

Splaying inside the womb
Red and wet I tear chunks from the *****

Red and wet mangled unborn baby
Eat the meat dripping from filthy…
Cumstained, blood-soaked, rotten ****

Infant skull exploding in my mouth
It’s brain on the floor

Rap on the other hand, n---er, n---er, over and over. Whites are bad, over and over. Then there's. G damn, bitches, hoes. mofos and c--ts etc. over and over again.

Please point out any rap songs that say white people are bad. Thanks for showing ignorance on a subject you don't understand once again.

I see a very limited vocabulary here.

This is probably because you are listening to mainstream streamline rap. Pushed out daily without any form of quality checking so that record companies can make a quick buck off of rap music that is mainly beats and repeated choruses.

But what's your point. My contention with your post is that assumption that rap has anything to do with any bad behavior in white children. By and large there is all sorts of sordid music out there including music written and performed by white musicians.

The images that I posted are album covers for metal bands. They speak for the material that is sung by white musicians and listened to by white kids.
If you insists on lyrics from these bands here you go - And this is just one example of hundreds of others -
Claws Of Laughter Dead

Ride the wind
My aggressions mirrored themselves in her eyes
As the blade was ripping up her insides

Her eyes
Stabbing and stabbing
My love fell dead to the floor (she's not alive anymore)
Together with sheds of my sanity
Dead in the absence of agony

She's still here with me
As Hell turns to ice


This may be subjective but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is far more disturbing than anything you will hear in rap. Especially real rap.
 
By the way, why are you okay with what the University did if you support Free Speech rights? And what right do you think the University has to punish someone for speech?

Because, they have the right to run the university as they see fit...with whatever standards they like - assuming they are legal standards. No one is going to die if they cannot attend Sooner land.

Though ideally, I would rather the university would respect free speech and not restrict such things...they are a business (like it or not - public or not) and they can run their business how they choose (again, within the law).
 
The fact that they are not anonymous is the reason they are receiving death threats. The fact that they are not anonymous is the reason their families are receiving death threats. You said it was good to have their names in the open, and not allow them to remain in the shadows. So why is it good that they're out in the open? So they can be threatened?


You're making nonsense now.

I am saying that they should be allowed to say what they want without fear of retribution and that the threats are bad. BUT, that the university should have the right to boot them out if they wish.

If you are going to twist my words, then this discussion is over.

Good day.
 
The fact that they are not anonymous is the reason they are receiving death threats. The fact that they are not anonymous is the reason their families are receiving death threats. You said it was good to have their names in the open, and not allow them to remain in the shadows. So why is it good that they're out in the open? So they can be threatened?

As an african american - I don't care if they are threatened. There lyrics included a celebration of lynching.

"They can hang from a tree"

I have no sympathy for anything they are going through.
 
Because, they have the right to run the university as they see fit...with whatever standards they like - assuming they are legal standards. No one is going to die if they cannot attend Sooner land.

Though ideally, I would rather the university would respect free speech and not restrict such things...they are a business (like it or not - public or not) and they can run their business how they choose (again, within the law).

It isn't a private university. It's a public university. As with any other public (government) entity, they're subject to the free speech guarantees of the First Amendment and aren't supposed punish students because they hold offensive views. This has been argued many times in courts.

Public businesses can't operate how they choose. That's why you can't open a pubic bakery and deny service to a gay couple. Public accommodation laws.
 
You're making nonsense now.

I am saying that they should be allowed to say what they want without fear of retribution and that the threats are bad. BUT, that the university should have the right to boot them out if they wish.

If you are going to twist my words, then this discussion is over.

Good day.

I'm not twisting your words. You said you're glad they're in the open. Why? The only thing that came out of them being in the open are death threats.
 
As an african american - I don't care if they are threatened. There lyrics included a celebration of lynching.

"They can hang from a tree"

I have no sympathy for anything they are going through.

I didn't know someone asked you to have sympathy for them.
 
I didn't know someone asked you to have sympathy for them.

No one did. Welcome to the public forum Tres. I don't need your permission to respond to your post and share my thoughts. I can do so freely even without invitation.


As far as I'm concerned those involved deserve all consequences they're decision to sing that filthy song has incurred.
 
Who cares if YOU can't understand it, children can and they eat it up like its candy. Welcome to the internet for the sake of this discussion you could have looked up lyrics - But I will go ahead and do



Please point out any rap songs that say white people are bad. Thanks for showing ignorance on a subject you don't understand once again.



















This is probably because you are listening to mainstream streamline rap. Pushed out daily without any form of quality checking so that record companies can make a quick buck off of rap music that is mainly beats and repeated choruses.

But what's your point. My contention with your post is that assumption that rap has anything to do with any bad behavior in white children. By and large there is all sorts of sordid music out there including music written and performed by white musicians.

The images that I posted are album covers for metal bands. They speak for the material that is sung by white musicians and listened to by white kids.
If you insists on lyrics from these bands here you go - And this is just one example of hundreds of others -



This may be subjective but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is far more disturbing than anything you will hear in rap. Especially real rap.

LA, CA...that explains it. 8)
 
No one did. Welcome to the public forum Tres. I don't need your permission to respond to your post and share my thoughts. I can do so freely even without invitation.

Of course you can. Not sure why you posted that to me, though. You can respond to my posts all you want. But it's nice if you would respond on topic. Nobody said anything about sympathy, including me.
 
Of course you can. Not sure why you posted that to me, though. You can respond to my posts all you want. But it's nice if you would respond on topic. Nobody said anything about sympathy, including me.

I don't know what it is. I'm still human and since this hits home for me - I find all your talk about them lawyering up and finding vindication in all this repugnant.

It scares me to see future leaders like them show that kind of hate. Those kids are our future congressmen and women, doctors, lawyers, cops, what have you.

It's disturbing. They should be expelled and go flip burgers. Where their hate for black people can not bleed into others people lives by their influence.


This is an emotional response, i can admit that. But I honestly don't understand why you care about them.
 
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