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Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee[W:175,246, 296]

Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

And this guy is polling 2nd to 3rd among Republican Primary voters.

Ah, no, he's not. But it does make for a good talking point if your goal is to smear a whole swath of people with one giant brush.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Lest anyone foolishly think that my views regarding experience and their impact regarding elections in general and my personal feeling towards a candidate, I'd suggest you search for posts of mine from 2008 with the keywords "executive experience" in them. This was a major issue I vocalized often and repeatedly with Obama. Unlike some political hacks that care singularly about ideology and have absolutely no principles, I actually tend to keep my standards. Experience is important to me. While some non-government experience is ABSOLUTELY attractive (as opposed to a career politician), it is attractive as a supplemental portion of a candidates resume...not the core.

I don't want a mechanic who's never dealt with electronics working on my motherboard. I don't want a surgeon who can't change his own oil working on my car's transmission. I don't want an architec who's never played football being my team's offensive coordinator. And I don't want some guy who's successful in an entirely unrelated field running my country and controlling my military.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

You might out to check your facts:

2016 National GOP Primary - Polls - HuffPost Pollster (polling 3rd in this average)

Between 2nd to 4th in these polls: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - 2016 Republican Presidential Nomination

One outlier Democrat poll, of 316 people, that gives him 18%, in second, skewing his average higher, only taking into account the last three polls, previous polls showing him much lower, is not indicative of him being 2 or 3rd choice among Republican primary voters.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

You might out to check your facts:

2016 National GOP Primary - Polls - HuffPost Pollster (polling 3rd in this average)

Between 2nd to 4th in these polls: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - 2016 Republican Presidential Nomination

Let's see, regarding RCP

Second in PPP's poll

Fifth in the CNN/ORC Poll

Fourth in the Fox News Poll

Now looking at the one additional current one that Huff Post uses that RCP doesn't.

Seventh in YouGov's poll

Averaging them, that gives us an average rank of 4.5. So round that either way you want, it still doesn't equal "2nd or 3rd". There is only one current poll cited by either of your two pollsters that rates him as either 2 or 3.

It'd be accurate to suggest he's in the top 5 of republican choices, but it's a bit of a misrepresentation to declare him definitively as the 2nd or 3rd choice.


--------------------------


Taking it a step farther, I added up all the percentages for the top candidates listed on all four of the "current" polls by your two sources, to get an average "percentage" as well. I equated "top candidate" as someone polling over 5% in at least one poll. It looks like this.

1st: Scott Walker - 16%
2nd: Jeb Bush - 14%
3rd: Mike Huckabee - 12%
4th: Ben Carson - 10%
5th: Rand Paul - 9%
6th: Chris Christie - 6%
7th: Marco Rubio - 5%

So taking an aggregate of all the polls in question, Ben Carson looks to be the 4th choice currently. And none of them have a significant edge over their next closest competitor. The largest is Rand Paul, being 3% points ahead of the #6 guy and only 1% away from the #4 guy.
 
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Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

1.)No, thank you - for continuing to double down and try to weasel and squirm away from your own words.
2.)Facts are facts
3.) and posters here can see your pretzels and back flips.
4.) They're reminded of a salmon landed and cast to the floor of the boat flipping and flopping around, desperate trying to escape, and not realizing it's over.
5.) It's over AJ, you lost - accept it like a man, if you can.
1.) except i have facts on my said and you have nothing but your failed assumption and lies lol
2.) yes they are and they prove you wrong
3.) nope they can simply go back and see that i factually did not say what you claim and you got caught posting a lie . . AGAIN lol
4.) I agree it was over as soon as you made up your lie
5.) facts never lose to lies and therefore I wont :shrug:

keep trying though facts, quotes and thread history all prove you posted a lie
your post is destoryed and facts win again
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

I really like Ben Carson. He'd do fine as a POTUS, heads and shoulders better than who we have no.

He a perfect republican. A conservative hack who plays to the right wing nut jobs. He thinks gay is a choice. So too is president. He won't be chosen.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

He doesn't, that's why your statement is simply wrong. Politicians who do change rules in the states have legalized or decriminalized marijuana. That's why saying we're no closer to legalization is false. Your statement is like saying we're not closer to gay marriage if the federal government doesn't recognize it. Not only does it completely ignore the legalization process, it's absolutely fallacious. The legalization of marijuana would have been unthinkable in the 1980s. Today, we have various states decriminalizing it and legalizing it, as well as several bills introduced to legalize it in congress. THAT is what makes your "no closer" to legalizing it statement false.

You be sure to let me know when the President of the United States has declared marijuana legal in this country. Until then, we are no further along making marijuana legal than we were the day before yesterday, 2006, or 1942.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

If this is somehow actually attempting to counter my post you quoted, you're being amazingly dishonest by misrepresenting comments about political experience to being about "community organizer". Not to mention your blatant strawmanning by arguing about "worthiness" when my post was about "experience".

No, when it comes to experience, a "Community Organizer" is no more related to the Presdient of the United States of American than a Neurosurgeon. HOWEVER, seven years as a state Senator and three years as a US Senator absolutely and unquestionbaly is more experience related to the POTUS than someone who has zero experience in government.

As to the entire hogwash about "religion", to act like many on the right didn't make a GIANT deal out of Obama's connections with Reverend Wright and his potential religious views (be it Wright or be it as a supposed "Muslim") during the campaign is laughable. Did the left by and large not have an issue with it? Absolutely. Just like the right has no issue with Carson's now and is balking at the audacity of people bringing up his religious beliefs as some kind of negative.

So just being a politician gives you experience to be President? Hmm....

I don't recall that the criticism of Obama's connection with Wright had anything to do with religion. If I recall correctly, the issue people had with his affiliation with Wright was based on Wright's devisive and bordering on anti-American words. What specifically was it about Wright's religion that "many on the right" considered to be an issue?
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee | Fox News



I didn't really expect Carson to run. But from the look of this it sounds like he is actually extremely likely to make the attempt. I guess that makes sense considering he's hovering in 2nd or 3rd place in the polls though. I still find it extremely unlikely he'll win the nomination with his lack of political and campaign experience.


He stands about as much of a chance than that NINE NINE NINE Pizza Guy.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

And there's still Republican apologists who say the GOP hasn't been hijacked by the far right in the party. They still say the current GOP is a moderate party.

Has Ben Carson hijacked the Republican party? :shock:

I disagree with Dr. Carson's words completely. I, however, don't attribute his words to the entire GOP. And yes, the current GOP is too moderate. They don't believe in small government and low spending. Not everyone associates a party with what someone who self-identifies with them thinks about peoples' sexual preferences.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

And yet another nutjob quote by Carson for this morning:

Ben Carson: People Choose To Be Gay, And Prison Proves It

And this guy is polling 2nd to 3rd among Republican Primary voters. As I stated earlier it would be like Lyndon Larouche polling 2nd among Democratic Primary voters. When are all these nut job primary voters in the GOP going to go ahead and die off or get on some meds. Its a flipping clown show every 4 years anymore.

You mean unzipping one's pants to have illicit gay sex isn't a choice? If that's true watch out at the malls. It could go down any minute!
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

With all of these politicians who are apparently in favor of legalizing pot, why is it that we don't seem to be any further along with making that happen?


Very good question. As I recall, Obama had some promises along those lines. What happened with the phone and pen thingy?

Now they're yapping about a guy who is clear on his stand, clearly misguided in my opinion, but at least we know who where he stands. Obama and ilk, you never do
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

1.) except i have facts on my said and you have nothing but your failed assumption and lies lol
2.) yes they are and they prove you wrong
3.) nope they can simply go back and see that i factually did not say what you claim and you got caught posting a lie . . AGAIN lol
4.) I agree it was over as soon as you made up your lie
5.) facts never lose to lies and therefore I wont :shrug:

keep trying though facts, quotes and thread history all prove you posted a lie
your post is destoryed and facts win again

Isn't that precious - you're still flopping around in the bottom of the boat - such a trooper - it's been over for you for a long time and eventually you'll figure it out.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Isn't that precious - you're still flopping around in the bottom of the boat - such a trooper - it's been over for you for a long time and eventually you'll figure it out.

translation: facts are still defeating you and you got nothing LOL
facts, thread history and my qoute > than your posted lie
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

translation: facts are still defeating you and you got nothing LOL
facts, thread history and my qoute > than your posted lie

Isn't that precious - your words help me picture a grumpy little girl stomping her feet in the corner demanding that she be listened to and demanding "I am so right"!!

Your juvenile posts are worth the price of admission.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Very good question. As I recall, Obama had some promises along those lines. What happened with the phone and pen thingy?

Now they're yapping about a guy who is clear on his stand, clearly misguided in my opinion, but at least we know who where he stands. Obama and ilk, you never do

Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

OMG, the religious right has influenced Obama's opinion! Will this nightmare ever end? :mrgreen:
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

OMG, the religious right has influenced Obama's opinion! Will this nightmare ever end? :mrgreen:



Obama influenced? :roll:

Not by man, dear, not by any mortal on this good earth.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Isn't that precious - your words help me picture a grumpy little girl stomping her feet in the corner demanding that she be listened to and demanding "I am so right"!!

Your juvenile posts are worth the price of admission.

facts, thread history and my qoute > than your posted lie :shrug:

all you have left is failed insults and nobody is fooled, everybody sees your posts got caught in a lie
the claim was made that I said "it will take a "great candidate" for race not to be an issue" , well that was never said, it was made up
if you disagree prove me wrong, teach me a lesson! Why not just stick to the topic and prove me wrong?
I DIRECTLY CHALLENGE YOU please in your next post, post ONE fact that supports that proven wrong lie. . . one . . .

it wont be done, it cant be done because as usual your post got destroyed by me and the lies in them were exposed
fatcs win again

who wants to bet this request is dodged?
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

facts, thread history and my qoute > than your posted lie :shrug:

all you have left is failed insults and nobody is fooled, everybody sees your posts got caught in a lie
the claim was made that I said "it will take a "great candidate" for race not to be an issue" , well that was never said, it was made up
if you disagree prove me wrong, teach me a lesson! Why not just stick to the topic and prove me wrong?
I DIRECTLY CHALLENGE YOU please in your next post, post ONE fact that supports that proven wrong lie. . . one . . .

it wont be done, it cant be done because as usual your post got destroyed by me and the lies in them were exposed
fatcs win again

who wants to bet this request is dodged?

Oooooooooooh, now the tantrum - so precious. Your posts are so vivid - "I am too right" I can almost hear the little girl scream.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Oooooooooooh, now the tantrum - so precious. Your posts are so vivid - "I am too right" I can almost hear the little girl scream.

translation: you are running fro the challenge because you cant back up the lie you posted
thanks, thats what I thought
facts win again

please let us know when you can, thanks
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

So just being a politician gives you experience to be President? Hmm....

Simply being a politician? No. Being and serving as an elected official in a political/governmental role however is direct experience related to the job of the Presidency.

As I've said repeatedly over the past 6+ years...

It is almost universally held amongst political scientists that Executive Experience in government is by far the most direct and relevant experience for the Presidency. IE a Vice Presidency, Governorship, or to a lesser extend a Vice Governorship or Mayor of a substantially sized city (ala New York). This is because of the near direct 1:1 relationship between the two jobs, with it simply being a difference in magnitude.

The one caveat between this and the next set of experience is a significantly high officer in the military during an election period where national defense is at a significant level of interest. Similar to being an executive in government being directly related to being the Chief Executive of the US, being a top tier military leader is directly related to being the Commander in Chief and is also viewed as absolute direct experience.

The next teir to this is federal legislative experience. While this does not give you direct experience with the duties and responsabilities of an executive, it does provide you with a significant amount of experience with the governmental process on the national level, involves you with almost every policy issue that you're likely to be dealing with in the role as President, and depending on your committees may give you direct experience with various avenues of the Executives jobs such as foreign policy. In terms of legislative experience, Senatorial experience has historically been viewed as significantly more valuable than House experience when it comes to the Presdiency.

Much like the a high ranking military commander is a pseudo "1b" to executive experience, high level cabinet positions fall in as a sort of "2c" behind Senate and House experience typically. Specifically speaking of a position like Secretary of State. This is something that's viewed as giving you some executive experience as well as general federal experience as well.

Those are generally what's historically been viewed as your Primary and Secondary tier experience for the Presidency of the United States. The teriary level would be lower state offices (like a state Senator), lesser viewed cabinet positions (like Energy Secretary for example), or executive experience in the private sector for an exceedingly large organization/business.

Never has a President ever been elected in this country who's levels of experience reside singularly in the teriary layer. I haven't fully done the research again recently, but I'd dare say no candidate for either of the two major political parties in this country in the past 75 years has had experience that resides singularly in the teriary layer either.

Ben Carson does not even have anything that could reliably be described in this third layer of experience. The closest thing he could claim is being director of pediatric neurosurgery at John Hopkins...essentially the executive of a subset of a subset of a hospital. It is experience related to running the country like saying putting together legos is experience for creating a sky scraper.

Now, is experience everything? Absolutely not. We've had greatly experienced individuals who have failed, we've had somewhat lacking experienced individuals do well. But in general, those who are more experienced have done better, and as it relates to electability....experience is almost always viewed as an important factor in the electorate.

Experience was important to me in 2008, and it's important to me now. It's not something I'm going to simply ignore because someone speaks prettily about things that are in line with my ideology. If it was, then it'd show my issues with Obama's experience in 2008 was just utter and complete bull****, simply a fabrication created simply out of usefulness as a means of attacking him due to my ideological differences with him.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

I don't recall that the criticism of Obama's connection with Wright had anything to do with religion.

Oh really? You can't recall television or radio personalities droning on about "black liberation theology" (which is a type of religious philosophy)? You didn't see things like this BLAZE article that brings back up many of the things from the campaign? Or how about this article from 2008 at the American Thinker tieing his churches religious beliefs to marxism? Or THIS one up on WND back in 2008.

The issue was that Wright's RELIGIOUS beliefs and sermons were anti-american or dangerous or didn't seem "Christian" to some on the right. But it was still being critical and attacking the RELIGIOUS beliefs of Obama's church and pastor, and Obama himself as a byproduct.

To attempt to say that it wasn't an attack based on religion against Obama is like saying that the attacks on Carson aren't attacks on religion but rather are people having an issue basd on his anti-scientific words.
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

You be sure to let me know when the President of the United States has declared marijuana legal in this country. Until then, we are no further along making marijuana legal than we were the day before yesterday, 2006, or 1942.

This is just categorically untrue.

In 2006 we did not have two states making the sell and use of marijuana legal, with extremely little honest challenge by the federal government in terms of the judicial system or via enforcement of federal laws. The amount and intensity in which the executive branch pursues offenders of federal marijuana laws absolutely is something that can alter. How fervently the justice department challenges states medical marijuana laws, decriminalization efforts, or actual legalization is another example where the executive absolutely has a hand in the legality of it's usage and sale. Not to mention the very notion of the bully pulpit that the Veto pen allows one to exert over a congress even if they are more inclined to attempt to pass legislation that loosens or removes regulations on it.

There is quite a lot that the President can do as it relates to marijuana, it's use in this country, and the laws regarding it. The President...as has been demonstrated by this President and is likely to be carried on by whoever takes over regardles of party...has a fair amount of leeway in the manner in which he wishes to enforce the laws and where to focus efforts. They have control over the Justice Department and can help set the agenda of what laws and issues they wish to pursue more seriously and which they want to just give a token effort to. Amongst other means.

While a President can not by fiat legalize marijuana, there are a vast amount of things he can do to affect it's legal status in a variety of fashions.

This is such an amazingly sophmoric and basic view that it's almost laughable. To think that the only impact on the legalization, either official or defacto, of marijuana on this country is singularly whether or not the federal government legalizes it or not is absolutely ridiculous. The amount a
 
Re: Ben Carson forms presidential exploratory committee

Moderator's Warning:
CJ and AJ, take your slap fight to the basement or knock it off. I don't care which one. But if you two keep going back and forth in this baiting way that is just aimed at enflaming the other as opposed to actually engaging in debate on this topic you're going to get hit with points and booted.
 
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