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Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishme

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

The private entity isn't the ones making the money off the program. A third party is. All the stores are doing is saving the hassle of having to send people to court to testify against you.

The store gets a 40 dollar kickback. Furthermore, having the third party receive most of the money doesn't change the legality of the situation at all. Its quite common in most extortion rackets to give most of the cut to the higher ups.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Thoughts are?
Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishment

Imagine you’re browsing at Bloomingdale’s when a security guard taps you on the shoulder and accuses you of shoplifting. He takes you to a private room, sits you down, and runs your name through a database to see if you have any outstanding warrants. Then he tells you that you have two options. The first involves him calling the police, who might arrest you and take you to jail. The second allows you to walk out of the store immediately, no questions asked—right after you sign an admission of guilt and agree to pay $320 to take an online course designed to make you never want to steal again.

Which would you choose?

I like it. I of course am not a thief and therefore would fight any accusation, with the police involved.

But if I was a thug, this creates more options for me, while lessening the strain on law enforcement.

The only thing I would change is that the fine would have to be paid before the person left the store, and if not-the police would be called. Likewise if the online course was not completed by a certain date the police would be called and the deal would be off.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

I believe shoplifiting would require someone to leave the store with merchandise. Browsing hardly fits the definition.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

I like it. I of course am not a thief and therefore would fight any accusation, with the police involved.

But if I was a thug, this creates more options for me, while lessening the strain on law enforcement.

The only thing I would change is that the fine would have to be paid before the person left the store, and if not-the police would be called. Likewise if the online course was not completed by a certain date the police would be called and the deal would be off.

A booming business model. Money is rolling in.
Then a data base of who signed up. Wonder how that is used?
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

If you actually concealed merchandise, you would just be another mouthy person talking about their rights from behind cell doors.

I wouldn't actually concealed merchandise (or as is more commonly stated, "steal"), but a call to a lawyer earlier is always better than later.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Demanding money by threatening to accuse someone of a crime is called extortion. Lets look at California law.


518. Extortion is the obtaining of property from another, with his
consent
, or the obtaining of an official act of a public officer,
induced by a wrongful use of force or fear, or under color of
official right.


519. Fear, such as will constitute extortion, may be induced by a
threat of any of the following:
1. To do an unlawful injury to the person or property of the
individual threatened or of a third person.
2. To accuse the individual threatened, or a relative of his or
her, or a member of his or her family, of a crime.
They arent demanding money. They are giving people choices. Prior to the course option there was no choice. nabbed for shoplifting-deal with the law. Now, nabbed for shoplifting, deal with the law or accept a low cost alternative that is superior to the retailer, law enforcement, and a perpetrator.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

The store gets a 40 dollar kickback. Furthermore, having the third party receive most of the money doesn't change the legality of the situation at all. Its quite common in most extortion rackets to give most of the cut to the higher ups.

Only on America would people bitch about giving people a chance not to have theft on their records.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

I wouldn't actually concealed merchandise (or as is more commonly stated, "steal"), but a call to a lawyer earlier is always better than later.

If you are busted for shoplifting, you are better off to take the deal. Keeps it off your record and by the time they add in fines/costs and even a crap public defender, you are closing in on their course cost.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

They arent demanding money. They are giving people choices. Prior to the course option there was no choice. nabbed for shoplifting-deal with the law. Now, nabbed for shoplifting, deal with the law or accept a low cost alternative that is superior to the retailer, law enforcement, and a perpetrator.

Every blackmailer offers their victim a choice. So do protection rackets, sex slavers and a million other criminals. If you think the person is guilty of a crime, you can report to the police. You can't use their vulnerability to steal money from them.

Lets suppose you find your neighbor is growing marijuana plants in his apartment. You want to call the cops, perfectly legal. If you go to your neighbor and ask him for 500 bucks to keep your mouth shut, that is extortion.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Every blackmailer offers their victim a choice. So do protection rackets, sex slavers and a million other criminals. If you think the person is guilty of a crime, you can report to the police. You can't use their vulnerability to steal money from them.

Lets suppose you find your neighbor is growing marijuana plants in his apartment. You want to call the cops, perfectly legal. If you go to your neighbor and ask him for 500 bucks to keep your mouth shut, that is extortion.

Silly comparison that doesn't work here. Your neighbor is involved in a continuing crime that you have offered to keep silent about for payment. That makes you guilty of conspiracy and makes you part of the crime.

In the case of the retailer, in lieu of pressing charges they offer the thief a low cost way of going forth and sinning no more. A good lawyer and the court costs are going to cost you (and the system, IE all of us) more than that. Not to mention the continuing drag on your life that a theft conviction causes.

When the court gives someone a break by giving them drug diversion rather than jail and/or huge fine the offender pays for that too. Same concept.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Only on America would people bitch about giving people a chance not to have theft on their records.


Actually, its considered extortion in all countries that followed the British legal tradition. The classic phrase original found in Canada, New Zealand and other former colonies was.

With intent to extort or gain anything accusing or threatening to accuse a person, whether the person accused or threatened with accusation is guilty or not
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

A booming business model. Money is rolling in.
Then a data base of who signed up. Wonder how that is used?

I dont know that it needs to be public, unless shoplifting arrests/convictions already are.

But it should also be subject to being placed on ones record as well, even if not as a conviction.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Silly comparison that doesn't work here. Your neighbor is involved in a continuing crime that you have offered to keep silent about for payment. That makes you guilty of conspiracy and makes you part of the crime.

No its not. It doesn't matter if he destroys the plants afterward. It does matter if you simply keep your mouth and don't ask for money. The crime is when you threaten someone with a criminal accusation in return for money.


In the case of the retailer, in lieu of pressing charges they offer the thief a low cost way of going forth and sinning no more. A good lawyer and the court costs are going to cost you (and the system, IE all of us) more than that. Not to mention the continuing drag on your life that a theft conviction causes.

Its always cheaper to the pay blackmailer than face criminal penalties, that doesn't change the law.

When the court gives someone a break by giving them drug diversion rather than jail and/or huge fine the offender pays for that too. Same concept.

Courts are granted that authority under the constitution and required to uphold the rights of the accused. Retailers aren't.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

They arent demanding money. They are giving people choices. Prior to the course option there was no choice. nabbed for shoplifting-deal with the law. Now, nabbed for shoplifting, deal with the law or accept a low cost alternative that is superior to the retailer, law enforcement, and a perpetrator.

Thats how I see it.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Every blackmailer offers their victim a choice. So do protection rackets, sex slavers and a million other criminals. If you think the person is guilty of a crime, you can report to the police. You can't use their vulnerability to steal money from them.

Lets suppose you find your neighbor is growing marijuana plants in his apartment. You want to call the cops, perfectly legal. If you go to your neighbor and ask him for 500 bucks to keep your mouth shut, that is extortion.

Your poutrage is just plain goofy. Retailers have an obligation to their survival and in fact their customer base to curb shoplifting. Prior to this option people were nabbed and had to deal with the police. Now they are given a choice. They are given their legal rights and shown a video explaining their choices. Frankly...your butthurt poutrage at this is just stupid. But I would recommend if you are ever in this situation (all the more comical because it is entirely unlikely you ever WILL be) then you should tell them to kiss your ass and take your shot with the cops. You go, boy...that'll show them they cant **** around with you.

FM
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Actually, its considered extortion in all countries that followed the British legal tradition. The classic phrase original found in Canada, New Zealand and other former colonies was.

We are both in Ca. Here, if you get a speeding ticket you can opt to take an online course and pay a fee-this will prevent it from being reported to your insurance, meaning you may well save money.

The alternative is a fine AND increased insurance costs.

Are you saying thats extortion?
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Actually, its considered extortion in all countries that followed the British legal tradition. The classic phrase original found in Canada, New Zealand and other former colonies was.

A nonsense reading of that to be sure. Shoplifting is a huge problem for retailers, right up there with employee theft. The threat isn't to accuse, but to press charges. And here's a clue for you, the police show up, the first thing they ask for is the video. We're not talking about innocent folks here, but thieves caught in the act given a chance to go forth and sin no more.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

I dont know that it needs to be public, unless shoplifting arrests/convictions already are.

But it should also be subject to being placed on ones record as well, even if not as a conviction.

The database could be used for repeat offenders?
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Thoughts are?
Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishment

Imagine you’re browsing at Bloomingdale’s when a security guard taps you on the shoulder and accuses you of shoplifting. He takes you to a private room, sits you down, and runs your name through a database to see if you have any outstanding warrants. Then he tells you that you have two options. The first involves him calling the police, who might arrest you and take you to jail. The second allows you to walk out of the store immediately, no questions asked—right after you sign an admission of guilt and agree to pay $320 to take an online course designed to make you never want to steal again.

Which would you choose?

Most of the Shoplifting that occurs in my neck of the woods is done by teams of Hispanic Illegal immigrants who go store to store racking up substantial piles of merchandise.

When caught it looks like the Police are having a garage sale in the park lot of the last store they hit with piles of clithes and merchandise pulled out of their cars.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Your poutrage is just plain goofy. Retailers have an obligation to their survival and in fact their customer base to curb shoplifting. Prior to this option people were nabbed and had to deal with the police. Now they are given a choice. They are given their legal rights and shown a video explaining their choices. Frankly...your butthurt poutrage at this is just stupid. But I would recommend if you are ever in this situation (all the more comical because it is entirely unlikely you ever WILL be) then you should tell them to kiss your ass and take your shot with the cops. You go, boy...that'll show them they cant **** around with you.

FM

I posted the law which very clearly states that demanding money in return for not accusing someone of a crime is illegal. All you have done is explain whine about unfair it is that your corporate masters are criticized for breaking the law.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

We are both in Ca. Here, if you get a speeding ticket you can opt to take an online course and pay a fee-this will prevent it from being reported to your insurance, meaning you may well save money.

The alternative is a fine AND increased insurance costs.

Are you saying thats extortion?


Of course not. The courts are vested with the power to resolve legal disputes. Its kind like how cops can show up at your door execute a warrant and physically drag you into a cage, but its felony kidnapping if Target employees do the same thing.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

A nonsense reading of that to be sure. Shoplifting is a huge problem for retailers, right up there with employee theft. The threat isn't to accuse, but to press charges. And here's a clue for you, the police show up, the first thing they ask for is the video. We're not talking about innocent folks here, but thieves caught in the act given a chance to go forth and sin no more.

The quote I posted literally stated "whether the person accused or threatened with accusation is guilty or not" and then you go and say its okay if the person is guilty. Do you actually care about the law? Or is everything legal if the person doing it has money and a suit?
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Of course not. The courts are vested with the power to resolve legal disputes. Its kind like how cops can show up at your door execute a warrant and physically drag you into a cage, but its felony kidnapping if Target employees do the same thing.

So if there was a law written, that gave the investigating officer the discretion to "allow" this to occur if both the store and the thief agreed, would you be ok with it?
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

So if there was a law written, that gave the investigating officer the discretion to "allow" this to occur if both the store and the thief agreed, would you be ok with it?

No, it would be unconstitutional. Retail enterprises have no right to privately dispense justice for profit. You could however pass a law authorizing the court to offer a simple fine payment similar to the way traffic offenses are handled.

I really don't get why everyone in this thread seems to think that corporations magically have the same authority as the justice system.
 
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