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Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishme

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

This is completely unacceptable. Coercion is a much worse crime than petty shoplifting. It really pisses me off that powerful entities get away with the kind of criminal behavior in public view. The 320 dollars they extort is likely to be a lot more than the shoplifter was taking in the first place. Seems like Harvard Business School is churning out more thieves than San Quentin these days.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

rathi said:
This is completely unacceptable. Coercion is a much worse crime than petty shoplifting. It really pisses me off that powerful entities get away with the kind of criminal behavior in public view. The 320 dollars they extort is likely to be a lot more than the shoplifter was taking in the first place. Seems like Harvard Business School is churning out more thieves than San Quentin these days.
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But a lot less than the financial damage that would result from a conviction or even mounting a decent defense. Many states have laws only requiring proof that you removed an item from its immediarte place of display and did not pay for it. Perhaps you pick up a bag of socks (on aisle #2) and then find another that you prefer (on aislke #4) and swap them. Even though you did not intend to keep the initial item you "concealed" it by simply (re?)moving it to aisle #4.

Shoplifting - FindLaw
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

It all depends on if a person had a $1200 diamond crusted designer bra stuck down their pants at the time they were given the option or not, wouldnt you say?
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

rathi said:
This is completely unacceptable. Coercion is a much worse crime than petty shoplifting. It really pisses me off that powerful entities get away with the kind of criminal behavior in public view. The 320 dollars they extort is likely to be a lot more than the shoplifter was taking in the first place. Seems like Harvard Business School is churning out more thieves than San Quentin these days.
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Ooooooh!!! The poutrage!!!

People are given a choice. Take a course or call the cops. They are shown a video which explains their rights and gives them the absolute right to call the cops and to have a lawyer. Then they are given a choice. 20,000 to date have considered the options, their own actions, and chosen to take them up on an option that avoids a record and that the preliminary study indicates has resulted in a 1% recidivism rate as per the story.

Take door number two...by all means. Have the store call the cops (which they would normally do). Get arrested, booked, tried, sentenced. Odds are pretty strong that if they approach you they already have enough evidence to convict. So accept your penalty and your nice shiny new criminal record.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

justabubba said:
i would unzip my trousers and tell them to suck it
while pissing all over their electronics

but then i would not have stolen anything or have any outstanding warrants and could get away with such brash behavior
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Historically, they wouldnt be tapping on your shoulder unless they could already clearly demonstrate you were guilty.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

StillBallin75 said:
Personally from my experience this has never been a problem - these things don't even usually get that far. There is a really good way for any individual to prove their guilt or innocence, and that is to empty pockets/bags/purses. If you have no unpaid-for merchandise on your person, then the store would be hard-pressed to file charges against you - it's simply not worth their time and effort to do so.
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I guess in my mind I was thinking of a couple of times in my life when I've done admittedly stupid things that could get me in trouble if someone was looking at exactly the wrong time. I've put little items in a pocket to free up my hands while looking at something else. I've sometimes used a big shopping bag with paid for items like a cart in stores - using it to temporarily put stuff I DO buy, but that I can't hold in my hands while looking - e.g. four pairs of socks while I'm looking at a pair of pants or a shirt.

Heck, there have been a number of times in my adult life (5 or 10?) when I've gotten outside a store with items I didn't pay for - the times I remember it is when I have a big item, like a bag of dog food, or bag of mulch, that the person scans with the hand thing, but that is sitting on top of, say, dog collar or a nozzle for a hose or 3 bags of screws. I get out to the car, find out, crap!, that I didn't pay, then walk back in and have it rung up.

But I expect in the vast majority of times the person taking the deal is probably better off. To be honest, if I was caught in some of those cases above, I'd probably thankfully accept the $320 as a stupidity tax, even though I haven't intended to shoplift since I was about 10 and remember lifting a candy bar from a convenience store....
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Ockham said:
Tell him to call the police, I call my lawyer and tell him we have a misdemeanor charge from Bloomingdales to make the store and police look bad and a very juicy civil suit for at least 20 million as well as possible defamation charges. And I make sure the person who brought me into the room and the person watching through the camera can hear and see everything, as well as I'd spell the name of the law firm.

I'd then watch this guard break out into a sweat, let them give me store credit and kiss my ass and STILL file a civil lawsuit as well as make sure the lawyer subpoena's the video from my "questioning".
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If you actually concealed merchandise, you would just be another mouthy person talking about their rights from behind cell doors.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

What's scary is that no requirements are mentioned for running a shopper's name thru a database for the background check. That requires a SSN I believe. THis all assumes that store managers, security guards, etc are scrupulously honest and wont abuse that info...they could drag anyone in there on a made up charge JUST to get that info for fraud or blackmail purposes later.

Is your buddy a security guard at Target? Want to mess with your ex-wife? Ex-girlfriend or boyfriend?

Sorry, people that work in retail are no different than anyone else. Plenty of jerks and dishonest people. No way should they have that kind of access.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

JasperL said:
I guess in my mind I was thinking of a couple of times in my life when I've done admittedly stupid things that could get me in trouble if someone was looking at exactly the wrong time. I've put little items in a pocket to free up my hands while looking at something else. I've sometimes used a big shopping bag with paid for items like a cart in stores - using it to temporarily put stuff I DO buy, but that I can't hold in my hands while looking - e.g. four pairs of socks while I'm looking at a pair of pants or a shirt.

Heck, there have been a number of times in my adult life (5 or 10?) when I've gotten outside a store with items I didn't pay for - the times I remember it is when I have a big item, like a bag of dog food, or bag of mulch, that the person scans with the hand thing, but that is sitting on top of, say, dog collar or a nozzle for a hose or 3 bags of screws. I get out to the car, find out, crap!, that I didn't pay, then walk back in and have it rung up.

.
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Interesting, I'm 54 and never done any of those things.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Lursa said:
Interesting, I'm 54 and never done any of those things.
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Good for you. Want a lollipop? :lol:
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

JasperL said:
Good for you. Want a lollipop? :lol:
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I just didnt want there to be the idea that your actions are common.

Maybe they are, maybe they arent.

IMO they arent and shouldnt be used to excuse behavior if caught.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

ttwtt78640 said:
But a lot less than the financial damage that would result from a conviction or even mounting a decent defense. Many states have laws only requiring proof that you removed an item from its immediarte place of display and did not pay for it. Perhaps you pick up a bag of socks (on aisle #2) and then find another that you prefer (on aislke #4) and swap them. Even though you did not intend to keep the initial item you "concealed" it by simply (re?)moving it to aisle #4.
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I don't disagree that the laws are stupid, but they at least are bound by constitutional restrictions.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Lursa said:
I just didnt want there to be the idea that your actions are common.

Maybe they are, maybe they arent.

IMO they arent and shouldnt be used to excuse behavior if caught.
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What can I say - I said they were "admittedly stupid" and then that I'd accept getting caught and paying the $320 as a "stupidity tax" - so it's pretty clear I wasn't recommending or condoning what I've done. But sometimes we all do stupid things - or I do at least! :peace
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

JasperL said:
What can I say - I said they were "admittedly stupid" and then that I'd accept getting caught and paying the $320 as a "stupidity tax" - so it's pretty clear I wasn't recommending or condoning what I've done. But sometimes we all do stupid things - or I do at least! :peace
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Agreed. We all do.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

JasperL said:
I guess in my mind I was thinking of a couple of times in my life when I've done admittedly stupid things that could get me in trouble if someone was looking at exactly the wrong time. I've put little items in a pocket to free up my hands while looking at something else. I've sometimes used a big shopping bag with paid for items like a cart in stores - using it to temporarily put stuff I DO buy, but that I can't hold in my hands while looking - e.g. four pairs of socks while I'm looking at a pair of pants or a shirt.

Heck, there have been a number of times in my adult life (5 or 10?) when I've gotten outside a store with items I didn't pay for - the times I remember it is when I have a big item, like a bag of dog food, or bag of mulch, that the person scans with the hand thing, but that is sitting on top of, say, dog collar or a nozzle for a hose or 3 bags of screws. I get out to the car, find out, crap!, that I didn't pay, then walk back in and have it rung up.

But I expect in the vast majority of times the person taking the deal is probably better off. To be honest, if I was caught in some of those cases above, I'd probably thankfully accept the $320 as a stupidity tax, even though I haven't intended to shoplift since I was about 10 and remember lifting a candy bar from a convenience store....
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I agree in a lot of cases it's simply not worth my time money and effort to go to court to contest a traffic ticket or something of the sort.

To elaborate, at my retail store we don't try to apprehend the individual until they try to leave the store with the unpaid-for merchandise, so simply pocketing an item is something that we might catch on camera and be suspicious of, but we won't actually stop someone until they try to leave the store.
 
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Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

cpwill said:
Am I guilty?
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Not until proven.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:
Ooooooh!!! The poutrage!!!

People are given a choice. Take a course or call the cops. They are shown a video which explains their rights and gives them the absolute right to call the cops and to have a lawyer. Then they are given a choice. 20,000 to date have considered the options, their own actions, and chosen to take them up on an option that avoids a record and that the preliminary study indicates has resulted in a 1% recidivism rate as per the story.

Take door number two...by all means. Have the store call the cops (which they would normally do). Get arrested, booked, tried, sentenced. Odds are pretty strong that if they approach you they already have enough evidence to convict. So accept your penalty and your nice shiny new criminal record.
Click to expand...

Demanding money by threatening to accuse someone of a crime is called extortion. Lets look at California law.


518. Extortion is the obtaining of property from another, with his
consent, or the obtaining of an official act of a public officer,
induced by a wrongful use of force or fear, or under color of
official right.


519. Fear, such as will constitute extortion, may be induced by a
threat of any of the following:
1. To do an unlawful injury to the person or property of the
individual threatened or of a third person.
2. To accuse the individual threatened, or a relative of his or
her, or a member of his or her family, of a crime.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Yall are hung up too much on the "but I didn't do it and I'll sue" part of the scenario. How about you consider the fact that yes, a person walked into a store and shoplifted. Should they be given the option to pay, or no?
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Superfly said:
Yall are hung up too much on the "but I didn't do it and I'll sue" part of the scenario. How about you consider the fact that yes, a person walked into a store and shoplifted. Should they be given the option to pay, or no?
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The question is should the person be extorted and the answer is no. If the store wants justice, they can call the police. If they want to let the guy go, that is their call. What they can't do is shake the guy down for 320 bucks.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

rathi said:
The question is should the person be extorted and the answer is no. If the store wants justice, they can call the police. If they want to let the guy go, that is their call. What they can't do is shake the guy down for 320 bucks.
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It's not extortion if the person actually did the shoplifting. It's giving them a chance to pay a fine and not get put in the system.

If they actually didn't shoplift, that's one thing. That being said, there aren't too many stores willing to pay an enormous fine over a false accusation of shoplifting. I guarantee you that Bloomingdales has cameras everywhere, have people who sit and watch said cameras, and have hired goons walking the stores to catch those seen on the cameras red-handed. What they don't have are idiots running around, accusing people of shoplifting when they have no proof. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

StillBallin75 said:
This isn't about ****ing kidnapping. The reason the individual is taken to a back room is so that 1) They can be confronted with evidence that they were shoplifting 2) be given a choice to either pay for the merchandise or return it to the store and 3) if some type of confrontation or dispute arises it doesn't become a spectacle for the whole store to see. It isn't like detaining someone in a jail cell.
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Seems like kidnapping to me. :shrug:
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Since I don't shoplift and they would wrongly accuse me, I'd make such a racket that they would immediately apologize and let me go.
Next I'd involve the local news, cell phone video in hand, and make sure they never harass anyone else ever again.
Catch shoplifters, leave honest folks be.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Superfly said:
How about you consider the fact that yes, a person walked into a store and shoplifted. Should they be given the option to pay, or no?
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No, because chances are it isn't their first or their last.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Superfly said:
It's not extortion if the person actually did the shoplifting.
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Yes it is. Extortion doesn't change regardless of whether the victim committed a crime or not. Blackmailing the guilty is still illegal.

It's giving them a chance to pay a fine and not get put in the system.
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A fine is a legal payment made in accordance with laws, not a shakedown from a private entity.
 
Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

rathi said:
Yes it is. Extortion doesn't change regardless of whether the victim committed a crime or not. Blackmailing the guilty is still illegal.



A fine is a legal payment made in accordance with laws, not a shakedown from a private entity.
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The private entity isn't the ones making the money off the program. A third party is. All the stores are doing is saving the hassle of having to send people to court to testify against you.
 
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