Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishme

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

You should assume it for the sake of argument and I am guessing that if you WERE actually guilty and knew you were ganked...you might loose just a tiny bit of pep in your step there and might consider working stuff out. Its EASY to say what you wouldnt do when you HAVENT done anything.

Mind you...Im not saying you WOULD see things differently...just that you might.

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Well, it's not really in my nature to shoplift, but it is in my nature to know what I'm doing. So, if I were shoplifting I would be sure to know what procedures my target has and, yeah, I'd have the balls to just keep going...basically daring some person at the door or in the aisle to make a move.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Mycroft said:

First of all, that security guard better draw a sidearm on me if he expects me to go into some private room with him.

Second of all, that security guard better be prepared to shoot me...because I'll be walking out of his store.

Third of all, I really do hope he calls the Police.

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I'm with you on that. Doesn't matter if I'm guilty or innocent, I'm not going back into their little room.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

JANFU said:

Thoughts are?
Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishment

Imagine you’re browsing at Bloomingdale’s when a security guard taps you on the shoulder and accuses you of shoplifting. He takes you to a private room, sits you down, and runs your name through a database to see if you have any outstanding warrants. Then he tells you that you have two options. The first involves him calling the police, who might arrest you and take you to jail. The second allows you to walk out of the store immediately, no questions asked—right after you sign an admission of guilt and agree to pay $320 to take an online course designed to make you never want to steal again.

Which would you choose?

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This is criminal.

They should be prosecuted for conspiracy, coercion, etc.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

Ooooooh!!! The poutrage!!!

People are given a choice. Take a course or call the cops. They are shown a video which explains their rights and gives them the absolute right to call the cops and to have a lawyer. Then they are given a choice. 20,000 to date have considered the options, their own actions, and chosen to take them up on an option that avoids a record and that the preliminary study indicates has resulted in a 1% recidivism rate as per the story.

Take door number two...by all means. Have the store call the cops (which they would normally do). Get arrested, booked, tried, sentenced. Odds are pretty strong that if they approach you they already have enough evidence to convict. So accept your penalty and your nice shiny new criminal record.

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You realize it is illegal to demand money in exchange for not calling filing a police report, right?

Coercion, extortion, compounding.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Since apparently only a handful of people in this thread understand the law, let me explain:

It is a crime to demand money, or the performance of any act that a person has a legal right to abstain from, in exchange for not filing a police report. This is the case regardless of whether or not they are guilty or innocent, it's coercion, extortion, and compounding.

Only the state can demand money, or the performance of any act that a person otherwise has a legal right to abstain from, in punishment of a crime.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Paleocon said:

You realize it is illegal to demand money in exchange for not calling filing a police report, right?

Coercion, extortion, compounding.

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As a legal expert you should take it up with the people that would rather pay for their crime and avoid a criminal record. Frankly, I think it is beyond ****ing stupid the poutrage expressed by people over this. But thats just me.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

JANFU said:

What in the article do you find questionable?

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That you can be shopping in a store and have a security officer come up and just grab you and charge you with theft with no basis for the charge.

Simple fact, if you are actually detained for shoplifting, you do not have to accept being released after simply filling out a restitution form. It is 100% your right to demand to have the police called and legal charges filed. If you are indeed innocent, then more then likely the LEO will refuse to cite or arrest you, and their report will state that there was no evidence to justify the initial arrest. You can then go after the security officer and store for false arrest, unlawful detainment, and other charges.

The article seemed to imply that cowboys were going around arresting people for fun and profit. That is what I found objectionable. That is simply not how it works.

Brischera said:

Read those sentences again. When you sign the membership you agree to comply with the security measures which INCLUDES being searched when leaving the store.

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Ahhh, this is why I love the Internet, and those unable to spend even 5 minutes to do even basic research.

Here, directly from the COSTCO membership agreement:

Costco reserves the right to inspect any container, backpack, briefcase, etc., upon entering or leaving the warehouse.

Click to expand...

Member Privileges and Conditions

Notice, container, not person. And it is a contract, an agreement, it is not really legally binding. Otherwise an employer can have an employee sign a contract saying that each time they are late for work they get 3 lashed from a wood cane. There is absolutely no justification in civil law that justifies any party of a contract to mandatorily agree to being searched. You do agree to it, but it is not enforceable. They can not force you to agree to anything.

However, if you yourself refuse to have your belongings searched (not body but possessions), that is fine. They can not force you to be searched, they can not arrest you and have LEO search you, they can do absolutely nothing other then cancel your membership.

Period.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Mycroft said:

Why should I assume that? Under the OP's scenario, there is no mention of whether I was actually shoplifting or not. Just that the security guard accused me of shoplifting.

In any case, yes...my response would still be the same.

You know...I was in Walmart once and some guy wheeled out a shopping cart with a TV in it. The security thing went off and the guy at the door told him to stop. Guess what...he didn't. He kept on going. What did the Walmart guy do? Nothing...except make a note in a log. He didn't even follow the guy to get a plate number off his car.

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The first part, that is why I detested the scenario. It implied that the individual was innocent and had not done anything wrong.

As for the second, then enjoy your time in jail. The more force I must use to apprehend somebody, the greater the chance that law enforcement is going to be called. You may have taken a simple "catch and release" and turned it into a felony.

For the third, store employees are generally forbidden from acting as security other then as a deterence. This is pretty much universal, they do not have the training to make arrests or try and detain somebody. That is why they have Loss Prevention Officers, that is their job.

I would no more expect an untrained stock clerk to try and stop a shoplifter then I would the Pharmicist Assistant to go into the butcher area and try to cut somebody some steaks.

American said:

So you actually touch them?

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I do not know about StillBallin75, but I do all the time. Perfectly legal to do so.

radcen said:

I'm with you on that. Doesn't matter if I'm guilty or innocent, I'm not going back into their little room.

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And that is perfectly fine with me.

We take people into the "little room" for their own safety and privacy. But if somebody refuses to go in, I have absolutely no problem with processing them right in the open, in full view of anybody that comes by.

Now if you have been arrested for theft and are being processed, would you rather have it in a back room where nobody else sees, or right inside the store where anybody can watch and even videotape it, so the next night you are all over YouTube?

Paleocon said:

This is criminal.

They should be prosecuted for conspiracy, coercion, etc.

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What exact law are they breaking, please.

Paleocon said:

You realize it is illegal to demand money in exchange for not calling filing a police report, right?

Coercion, extortion, compounding.

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You do not need a police report to demand civil restitution. It is a civil matter, not one for law enforcement.

9 times out of 10 the police are never called in my apprehensions. No police reports are ever made. But guess what, every one of them is advised of the Civil Restitution law and what it means.

Paleocon said:

Since apparently only a handful of people in this thread understand the law, let me explain:

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Actually, I know the law very well. And I do this every day. Now I quote, California Civil Code 490.5c:

(c) When an adult or emancipated minor has unlawfully taken merchandise from a merchant’s premises, or a book or other library materials from a library facility, the adult or emancipated minor shall be liable to the merchant or library facility for damages of not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500), plus costs. In addition to the foregoing damages, the adult or emancipated minor shall be liable to the merchant for the retail value of the merchandise if it is not recovered in merchantable condition, or to a library facility for the fair market value of its book or other library materials. An action for recovery of damages, pursuant to this subdivision, may be brought in small claims court if the total damages do not exceed the jurisdictional limit of such court, or in any other appropriate court. The provisions of this subdivision are in addition to other civil remedies and do not limit merchants or other persons to elect to pursue other civil remedies.

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Law section.

But hey, if you want an arrest and civil restitution, I can do that too.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

As a legal expert you should take it up with the people that would rather pay for their crime and avoid a criminal record. Frankly, I think it is beyond ****ing stupid the poutrage expressed by people over this. But thats just me.

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Of course they prefer to pay the extortioners rather than the state. Extortion with respect to a crime is not only harmful to the victim, but also to the state, which has its authority to punish usurped by private groups.

Oozlefinch said:

What exact law are they breaking, please.

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Coercion

And

Compounding

You do not need a police report to demand civil restitution. It is a civil matter, not one for law enforcement.

9 times out of 10 the police are never called in my apprehensions. No police reports are ever made. But guess what, every one of them is advised of the Civil Restitution law and what it means.



Actually, I know the law very well. And I do this every day. Now I quote, California Civil Code 490.5c:


Law section.

But hey, if you want an arrest and civil restitution, I can do that too.

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Threatening to file a police report, in order to get leverage in a civil matter, is a crime, as shown above.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Oozlefinch said:

And your point here is?

I work in Loss Prevention. And every store I work in is a supermarket.

One of the local stores I work in has an average monthly alcohol theft rate of over $55,000 per month. Just a couple of days ago I stopped a guy trying to steal over $400 worth of meat. I have had single stops of over $1,100, and had single day recoveries of over $2,400 worth of merchandise.

All in grocery stores.

And one of the store chains I work at does participate in this program. But grocery stores are common targets for boosters (professional shoplifters). The merchandise inside is easy to sell, impossible to trace, and is frequently of high value and completely unserialized.

Steal a TV from the local chain store, and the cops can trace the serial number right back to the exact store it came from (and when they got it, and often the date it was stolen). Steal a backpack of batteries or baby formula from the local grocery store, and there is nothing to trace back to where it came from.

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its hard to stop real pros. when I was in grad school, there was a very attractive mid 30s woman in our class. not a typical grad student, she usually wore business suits or nice dresses with blazers to class. So I asked her what she had done in the real world before grad school. and she said she was a professional shop lifter. I said WTF> well she had been a detective in KC IIRC. Her speciality was retail theft, after 10 years on the force, a big security company hired her that several of the big department stores contracted with. So she would go to stores and test the security. She could do all sorts of neat stuff like if you handed her a ring, she could flip it up her sleeve in the blink of an eye. all sorts of stuff. and since there were no ramifications if she got caught, she never was nervous. but she told me real pros could steal thousands a week from big box stores or grocery stores. one night at a dinner with several of us she told us all the stuff she would do. purses with false bottoms. she was tall and thin, she would wear a loose fitting sack style dress with a body suit and stuff the bodysuit with stuff; or scout out a jewelry department and then get a cheap fake diamond ring like one on display and switch one for the other

my wife worked in loss prevention for the local MACYs and said the same thing. you can stop the amateurs and once in awhile get a pro-but the real pros are tough to stop

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

TurtleDude said:

its hard to stop real pros. when I was in grad school, there was a very attractive mid 30s woman in our class. not a typical grad student, she usually wore business suits or nice dresses with blazers to class. So I asked her what she had done in the real world before grad school. and she said she was a professional shop lifter. I said WTF> well she had been a detective in KC IIRC. Her speciality was retail theft, after 10 years on the force, a big security company hired her that several of the big department stores contracted with. So she would go to stores and test the security. She could do all sorts of neat stuff like if you handed her a ring, she could flip it up her sleeve in the blink of an eye. all sorts of stuff. and since there were no ramifications if she got caught, she never was nervous. but she told me real pros could steal thousands a week from big box stores or grocery stores. one night at a dinner with several of us she told us all the stuff she would do. purses with false bottoms. she was tall and thin, she would wear a loose fitting sack style dress with a body suit and stuff the bodysuit with stuff; or scout out a jewelry department and then get a cheap fake diamond ring like one on display and switch one for the other

my wife worked in loss prevention for the local MACYs and said the same thing. you can stop the amateurs and once in awhile get a pro-but the real pros are tough to stop

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About 20 years ago I did the same thing, a friend having a contract to do that at several retail chains in the Bay Area. But I did it for fun mostly, and it taught me quite a bit I can use now.

Yes, the boosters are indeed hard to catch. But we do catch them fairly often. It becomes a game of numbers. The more times they steal, the more and more likely it is that they will be caught.

And with modern technology, it is getting harder and harder for them to get away with it. And we are more and more often sharing the information we get.

Whenever I stop somebody I suspect is involved in ORC (Organized Retail Crime), I immediately call my dispatch, who runs their information through a database. We also always call the police in these cases. And in a great many cases, we collect other information like license plate numbers and turn them over to the police.

A few months ago, I had 2 get away after trying to steal over $600 worth of seafood. We got their license plate number, and turned it over to the police. 3 days later they were both arrested. They were then linked to at least 8 other crimes, and are awaiting trial on grand theft charges.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Paleocon said:

Of course they prefer to pay the extortioners rather than the state. Extortion with respect to a crime is not only harmful to the victim, but also to the state, which has its authority to punish usurped by private groups.



Coercion

And

Compounding



Threatening to file a police report, in order to get leverage in a civil matter, is a crime, as shown above.

Click to expand...

Key element...they are guilty of shoplifting.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Oozlefinch said:

Let me address this simply and easily.

For the most part, to detain an individual for shoplifting, the following 5 steps must be observed by an individual (either employee, owner, ot store security) before the apprehension (arrest) can be made.

1. Approach the item
2. Select the item
3. Conceal the item (this one can be skipped, not alll shoplifters conceal the items they steal)
4. Pass all points of purchase
5. Exit the store

Now almost nowhere do stores detain an individual inside of the store, they all wait until they exit the store. This is to prevent the claim that they "were going to pay". Once you leave, that is it. Nobody can claim they were going to pay once they leave.

As for the course, this has little to nothing to do with them being turned over to the police or not. This actually falls under the laws about Merchant Rights and Civil Restitution. In short, the individual if the store has this kind of program gives up the civil restitution allowed by the state (in California it is from $50 to $500) and instead takes a course intended to help deter the individual from stealing again.

Qualify and take the course, and there is no criminal record. Refuse, and the store can either have you pay them the civil restitution, or have you arrested and still have you pay the civil restitution. But if some guard came up to me inside the store and tried to charge me with shoplifting, then they had better have a good attorney, because I for one know much more then most about shoplifting law, and what they can and can not do.

But to give an idea, this almost never happens. In over 7 months of working Loss Prevention (basically professional shoplifter catcher), I have had hundreds of detainments, and only a single "bad stop". Sorry, but your scenario is questionable at best.

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Question: in a grocery store, what are you able to do with the aholes that grab a food item off the shelf and eat it or let their kids eat it while they're still leisurely shopping, knowing that by the time they get to the register, all wrappings and other evidence will be gone? Yet you saw them grabbing and eating in the store.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Ray410 said:

Question: in a grocery store, what are you able to do with the aholes that grab a food item off the shelf and eat it or let their kids eat it while they're still leisurely shopping, knowing that by the time they get to the register, all wrappings and other evidence will be gone? Yet you saw them grabbing and eating in the store.

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That is known as "Grazing", and we do not worry so much about it. Generally, I notify the manager and they address it. Generally telling them they have to go and pay for it, or kicking them out of the store.

We do not worry to much about the individual eating a couple of dollars of grapes or doughnuts. The shoplifters who are taking tens or hundreds of dollars of merchandise is who we are worrying about.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

Key element...they are guilty of shoplifting.

Click to expand...

That's not the key element. It's not really an element at all. I suggest you read the links I gave. Coercion and compounding do not depend on actual guilt, although compounding is primarily designed to deal with those who are actually guilty.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Oozlefinch said:

That you can be shopping in a store and have a security officer come up and just grab you and charge you with theft with no basis for the charge.

Simple fact, if you are actually detained for shoplifting, you do not have to accept being released after simply filling out a restitution form. It is 100% your right to demand to have the police called and legal charges filed. If you are indeed innocent, then more then likely the LEO will refuse to cite or arrest you, and their report will state that there was no evidence to justify the initial arrest. You can then go after the security officer and store for false arrest, unlawful detainment, and other charges.

The article seemed to imply that cowboys were going around arresting people for fun and profit. That is what I found objectionable. That is simply not how it works.



Ahhh, this is why I love the Internet, and those unable to spend even 5 minutes to do even basic research.

Here, directly from the COSTCO membership agreement:


Member Privileges and Conditions

Notice, container, not person. And it is a contract, an agreement, it is not really legally binding. Otherwise an employer can have an employee sign a contract saying that each time they are late for work they get 3 lashed from a wood cane. There is absolutely no justification in civil law that justifies any party of a contract to mandatorily agree to being searched. You do agree to it, but it is not enforceable. They can not force you to agree to anything.

However, if you yourself refuse to have your belongings searched (not body but possessions), that is fine. They can not force you to be searched, they can not arrest you and have LEO search you, they can do absolutely nothing other then cancel your membership.

Period.

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You cited the evidence with:

"Costco reserves the right to inspect any container, backpack, briefcase, etc., upon entering or leaving the warehouse."

And try to defend your failed argument by saying the word "person" does not appear?

Okay.

I guess when they say things like backpack or briefcase they are referring to squirrels, hummingbirds, and tadpoles. Because, you know, it would be crazy for people to carry any of those items.

It is just so sad you are so stuck on wanting to be right you will say the most embarrassing things to avoid admit being incorrect. If you do, the world will not end and you will actually feel better about yourself.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Paleocon said:

That's not the key element. It's not really an element at all. I suggest you read the links I gave. Coercion and compounding do not depend on actual guilt, although compounding is primarily designed to deal with those who are actually guilty.

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Dont do nothin...wont be nothin. Get caught shoplifting and deal with the consequences.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

Dont do nothin...wont be nothin. Get caught shoplifting and deal with the consequences.

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I find it almost comical how some people insist on defending the "rights" of criminals, saying that nobody has the right to do anything but call the police and have them arrested.

Fine, then we can all live in Paleoworld. Where I can not simply inform the individual of a Civil Restitution Demand, and call the police for each and every individual that I catch shoplifting, even if it is only $10 in snacks and cookies. Tie up the cops and court system even more, and they still get a Civil Restitution demand, only this time they also get a criminal conviction.

So I go from 1 in 10 getting a criminal complaint filed, to 10 in 10. I don't get his logic at all, probably because he does not understand how such things work.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

Dont do nothin...wont be nothin. Get caught shoplifting and deal with the consequences.

Click to expand...

Let me put it simply. Why are you defending criminals?

Oozlefinch said:

I find it almost comical how some people insist on defending the "rights" of criminals, saying that nobody has the right to do anything but call the police and have them arrested.

Fine, then we can all live in Paleoworld. Where I can not simply inform the individual of a Civil Restitution Demand, and call the police for each and every individual that I catch shoplifting, even if it is only $10 in snacks and cookies. Tie up the cops and court system even more, and they still get a Civil Restitution demand, only this time they also get a criminal conviction.

So I go from 1 in 10 getting a criminal complaint filed, to 10 in 10. I don't get his logic at all, probably because he does not understand how such things work.

Click to expand...

No response to what I said, of course.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Paleocon said:

Let me put it simply. Why are you defending criminals?



No response to what I said, of course.

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Because like so much of life, their 'criminal' behavior is all in your mind.
Are you actually stupid enough to believe that someone that got caught committing a crime is better off NOT paying a fine and gaining a criminal record to include court costs, a record, and a probable fine? If so...you are that special type of person that would, knowing you are busted, opt for the freely given option B and face the cops, courts, and jail.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Paleocon said:

No response to what I said, of course.

Click to expand...

Because what you keep saying is wrong.

In over 85% of cases where a shoplifter is caught, no police are involved. They are simply processed and reported to the company security office, and informed that the company lawyers will be demanding civil restitution. There is no police involvement!

In this case, the Civil Restitution is waived by both the company and the individual, and instead they are entered into what is essentially a "Shoplifting Interdiction Program". But just because somebody refuses to enter the program, that does not mean that police are then called. The option is Civil Restitution or The Program, not Jail or The Program.

However, because the program requires that the individual have never been arrested for shoplifting, if the individual meets the criteria and agrees to enrole in the program, no police are called (other then to identify them if required). But we rarely call the police in the cases of shoplifting anyways. And those times that we do call them to have them charged, they would not qualify for the program in the first place (minor with alcohol, stealing large amounts, Organized Retail Crime, etc).

I do not know if you have any experience or real knowledge of how this program works, or shoplifting law and civil restitution. But trust me, I do. I have worked with a similar program in one of the stores I work at, and maybe 25% of the people who I stop actually qualify for this program. Of those that qualify, around 80% choose it over civil restitution. But if they refused, I did not call the police in a single instance, I just did the civil restitution paperwork and sent them on their way.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

Because like so much of life, their 'criminal' behavior is all in your mind.
Are you actually stupid enough to believe that someone that got caught committing a crime is better off NOT paying a fine and gaining a criminal record to include court costs, a record, and a probable fine? If so...you are that special type of person that would, knowing you are busted, opt for the freely given option B and face the cops, courts, and jail.

Click to expand...

Of course they'd prefer to pay extortioners. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't need a law against extortion. And the fact that it benefits criminals to pay extortioners is pretty much the reason why compounding statutes exist, because that activity helps conceal crime from the authorities.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Oozlefinch said:

Because what you keep saying is wrong.

In over 85% of cases where a shoplifter is caught, no police are involved. They are simply processed and reported to the company security office, and informed that the company lawyers will be demanding civil restitution. There is no police involvement!

In this case, the Civil Restitution is waived by both the company and the individual, and instead they are entered into what is essentially a "Shoplifting Interdiction Program". But just because somebody refuses to enter the program, that does not mean that police are then called. The option is Civil Restitution or The Program, not Jail or The Program.

However, because the program requires that the individual have never been arrested for shoplifting, if the individual meets the criteria and agrees to enrole in the program, no police are called (other then to identify them if required). But we rarely call the police in the cases of shoplifting anyways. And those times that we do call them to have them charged, they would not qualify for the program in the first place (minor with alcohol, stealing large amounts, Organized Retail Crime, etc).

I do not know if you have any experience or real knowledge of how this program works, or shoplifting law and civil restitution. But trust me, I do. I have worked with a similar program in one of the stores I work at, and maybe 25% of the people who I stop actually qualify for this program. Of those that qualify, around 80% choose it over civil restitution. But if they refused, I did not call the police in a single instance, I just did the civil restitution paperwork and sent them on their way.

Click to expand...

I've never claimed that what you describe is illegal. I said that giving them the choice of jail or this program is illegal, which it is. If the threat is civil action, then it's not illegal.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

VanceMack said:

Because like so much of life, their 'criminal' behavior is all in your mind.
Are you actually stupid enough to believe that someone that got caught committing a crime is better off NOT paying a fine and gaining a criminal record to include court costs, a record, and a probable fine? If so...you are that special type of person that would, knowing you are busted, opt for the freely given option B and face the cops, courts, and jail.

Click to expand...

And in fact, for the cases where the individual qualifies for these programs, the police and courts do not want the cases in the first place.

In one of them I worked with, one requirement was that they have under $100 in merchandise. That is not a problem, since the average stop I am involved in runs from $20 to $80. But if you try and call the police to show up for any arrest under $200, they will generally blow you off and not show up for 2-3 hours. And also it is likely that unless the individual pleads out in the initial hearing, the DA will simply drop the case because it is not worth the hastle of tying up the court system for a $30 shoplifting charge.

This is the very reason why most states have a Merchant's Law and Civil Restitution Law in the civil law books. It lets the store collect for damages, acts as a future deterent, and does not tie up the court system (unless they refuse to pay, where it then goes to civil court, generally Small Claims).

Now I am very much a "law and order" type of guy, but I would not want to see every shoplifter I catch given legal citations and get a criminal record. Most are simply opportunists, trying to get "something for nothing", and are not real criminals. In most of these cases, simply getting caught and a civil demand is enough to stop them from ever doing it again. And for those that it does not stop, we will eventually catch them again. And then the odds are that they will be turned over to the police. And each time they are caught in the future, the fines and penalties will only go up.

Re: Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

Paleocon said:

I've never claimed that what you describe is illegal. I said that giving them the choice of jail or this program is illegal, which it is. If the threat is civil action, then it's not illegal.

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Then blame the article. It was a complete piece of crap, and is biased against the program and has very little connection with reality.

I have been describing how both Loss Prevention works, and how this program works. Ignore most of that piece of crap article, it is biased and wrong, and makes it out like some kind of scam by companies to extort money from innocent people.

Yes, what the article describes is illegal in a great many things, from the initial "shoplifting arrest" through how they describe how it works. That is very true, and why I have blasted it myself. What I have been describing is the reality of the program, how it works, and what the intent is.