• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

JANFU said:
And for Russia the Crimea is Russian.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/New_Russia_on_territory_of_Ukraine.png

History of Crimea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Thanks for the sites.

I know what Russians think of Crimea...and Ukraine. Here, a spokesman for the Russian government compared Ukraine to Canada and our relationship with the US, and said what the US had done in Kyev was much like Russia trying to convert Canada, and said if they had secret agents in Ottawa, the US would not hesitate to invade. Many Canadians agree.
 
Helix said:
so, a 60 year occupation of a large chunk of the Middle East? no thanks. i've got an alternative proposal, though : the regional hegemon should handle its own region, as we handle ours. you actually support doing Saudi Arabia's job for it, and for free?

additionally, even if we stay there for 60 years, more radical groups will pop up to take the place of IS, just like IS appeared when Al Qaeda was weakened. Syria is neither Germany nor Japan.



well, it sure is working.

alternatively, maybe we should concentrate on fixing our own country.
Click to expand...

Weve been places longer-thats the commitment required. Your type was fine appeasing hitler and stalin, mine was not. Courage man-show some.

And as for radical groups-its all about cost and benefit-make it cost more and they will see the light or perish.

Is there no threat you wont surrender to?
 
Helix said:
we're opening talks with Cuba. invasion didn't work.

so, what's your strategy for war with Russia in Ukraine? who participates, who does what, and how much do your taxes go up to fund it? maybe you'll be the first to respond with an actual plan.
Click to expand...

We "talked" with Cuba, they made it clear they aren't going to change. All Obama did was allow more money to flow to totalitarian freaks. The people of Cuba wont see one dime.

Your ideology in action, being "smart" of course. :roll:
 
Helix said:
we're opening talks with Cuba. invasion didn't work.

so, what's your strategy for war with Russia in Ukraine? who participates, who does what, and how much do your taxes go up to fund it? maybe you'll be the first to respond with an actual plan.
Click to expand...

There was ONE meeting and Cuba walked out. 60 years to wait for a leader to die is kind of insane and having one meeting kind of proves he's incompetent.

But still, my point is that Putin decides when there is war...not the US and he is winning.

How abut you answer a question before asking one. And if you're relying on a 65 year old retired journalist for a war strategy things are really ****ed up. You don't have a Pentagon anymore? Oh, not one with balls
 
Fearandloathing said:
Thanks for the sites.

I know what Russians think of Crimea...and Ukraine. Here, a spokesman for the Russian government compared Ukraine to Canada and our relationship with the US, and said what the US had done in Kyev was much like Russia trying to convert Canada, and said if they had secret agents in Ottawa, the US would not hesitate to invade. Many Canadians agree.
Click to expand...
I was not throwing anything about your knowledge at you. I figured you were up on the history. Others are not.
With a history of being part of Russia, it was a sore point when the Crimea was transferred to the Ukraine in 54.
Ukraine is a buffer for the Russians and NATO.
Eventually some sort of loose Federation may emerge. Who knows at this point.
But it is not in western interests to arm Ukraine. It is pure folly to do that.
Resources should be for significant trip wires in the Baltic's, Hungary, Romania & Poland for one.
 
US Conservative said:
Weve been places longer-thats the commitment required. Your type was fine appeasing hitler and stalin, mine was not. Courage man-show some.
Click to expand...

ah, hitler again, the go to for hawks.

so, is boko haram hitler? is kim jong un hitler? why aren't we going to war with those hitlers?

way to Godwin, BTW. unfortunately, someone already did that before you.

US Conservative said:
And as for radical groups-its all about cost and benefit-make it cost more and they will see the light or perish.

Is there no threat you wont surrender to?
Click to expand...

i won't surrender to hawks who can't be bothered to read about the history of empires and apply that knowledge to the foreign policy that they promote.

so, once again, what's the plan?
 
US Conservative said:
We "talked" with Cuba, they made it clear they aren't going to change. All Obama did was allow more money to flow to totalitarian freaks. The people of Cuba wont see one dime.

Your ideology in action, being "smart" of course. :roll:
Click to expand...

so, should we invade them, too?
 
US Conservative said:
We "talked" with Cuba, they made it clear they aren't going to change. All Obama did was allow more money to flow to totalitarian freaks. The people of Cuba wont see one dime.

Your ideology in action, being "smart" of course. :roll:
Click to expand...

How about Nixon's opening up China and now it is fast approaching as a significant threat to to US power in Asia.
 
Helix said:
ah, hitler again, the go to for hawks.

so, is boko haram hitler? is kim jong un hitler? why aren't we going to war with those hitlers?

way to Godwin, BTW. unfortunately, someone already did that before you.



i won't surrender to hawks who can't be bothered to read about the history of empires and apply that knowledge to the foreign policy that they promote.

so, once again, what's the plan?
Click to expand...

Since we dont have infinite resources, we start with the biggest threats. Currently those are ISIS and Russia-the biggest hot spots.
And yes they are "hitler" in that they are evil totalitarians who wont be appeased.

What empire are you referring to? If we were an empire Iraq would have been about the oil that we left there. And we certainly dont want to colonize either Russia or Ukraine.

I think our policy has essentially been trade with us, and dont attack us. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
 
JANFU said:
I was not throwing anything about your knowledge at you. I figured you were up on the history. Others are not.
With a history of being part of Russia, it was a sore point when the Crimea was transferred to the Ukraine in 54.
Ukraine is a buffer for the Russians and NATO.
Eventually some sort of loose Federation may emerge. Who knows at this point.
But it is not in western interests to arm Ukraine. It is pure folly to do that.
Resources should be for significant trip wires in the Baltic's, Hungary, Romania & Poland for one.
Click to expand...

i didn't mean to suggest I felt lectured, only bragging on myself I guess. The whole picture here is different. Not sure if I can put my finger on it but there is far more interest and far more pressure for a diplomatic solution. Stephen Harper's numbers rose 5% after he told Putin "get out of Ukraine" at the last G-8.

We get a lot more news about what Germany and Poland are saying. Here the US involvement is not even covered if there is any, you wouldn't know from the reporting and I seriously doubt CBC would ignore it if there was US activity.

I do know that the large Ukrainian population here cheered Washington when Kyev fell, they wanted Ukraine and Crimea in western control.
 
US Conservative said:
Since we dont have infinite resources, we start with the biggest threats. Currently those are ISIS and Russia-the biggest hot spots.
And yes they are "hitler" in that they are evil totalitarians who wont be appeased.

What empire are you referring to? If we were an empire Iraq would have been about the oil that we left there. And we certainly dont want to colonize either Russia or Ukraine.

I think our policy has essentially been trade with us, and dont attack us. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Click to expand...

i'm referring to the US acting as a modern empire, a foreign policy which is bankrupting the nation and getting our country stuck in foreign entanglements just like every empire before.

so, we'll fight a dual war with Russia and IS. why not boko haram? they've killed a lot of people. why do you want to appease that hitler? kim jong un actually has nukes, too. ignoring that threat sounds like appeasement.

also, we need to plan the war and occupation of Ukraine. Russia is pretty strong, and it has a lot of weapons. Syria will also require many decades of occupation. let's hear the plan.
 
Helix said:
i'm referring to the US acting as a modern empire, a foreign policy which is bankrupting the nation and getting our country stuck in foreign entanglements just like every empire before.

so, we'll fight a dual war with Russia and IS. why not boko haram? they've killed a lot of people. why do you want to appease that hitler? kim jong un actually has nukes, too. ignoring that threat sounds like appeasement.

also, we need to plan the war and occupation of Ukraine. Russia is pretty strong, and it has a lot of weapons. Syria will also require many decades of occupation. let's hear the plan.
Click to expand...

Already answered. You continue to repeat the same empty crap.

You dont need to understand things, they will happen regardless.

Crouch in a corner and dream of wealth redistribution while reality does its thing.
 
Fearandloathing said:
i didn't mean to suggest I felt lectured, only bragging on myself I guess. The whole picture here is different. Not sure if I can put my finger on it but there is far more interest and far more pressure for a diplomatic solution. Stephen Harper's numbers rose 5% after he told Putin "get out of Ukraine" at the last G-8.

We get a lot more news about what Germany and Poland are saying. Here the US involvement is not even covered if there is any, you wouldn't know from the reporting and I seriously doubt CBC would ignore it if there was US activity.


I do know that the large Ukrainian population here cheered Washington when Kyev fell, they wanted Ukraine and Crimea in western control.
Click to expand...

And Harper is also playing to a large Ukrainian population.
CBC, leans left, G&M, sort of middle, I find more opposing views - for and against in the National Post.
And I like to read from the Was Po NYT to Al Jazerra to the Asia Times to BBC.
From these you can sometimes glean what the heck is going on.
 
US Conservative said:
That is another threat, though more so to our proxies South Korea and Japan. But its a bit further down the priority list.
Click to expand...

It is fast approaching. 10-15 years max.
The Chinese can sacrifice up the hoop for area denial. Take losses that the US would not.
 
US Conservative said:
Im not. They really believe that. They even learn that in schools south of the border.
Click to expand...

Well it was settled by them first was it not?
And then what happened.
But you know as well as I it ain't gonna happen.
Nor can a State secede.
 
JANFU said:
It is fast approaching. 10-15 years max.
The Chinese can sacrifice up the hoop for area denial. Take losses that the US would not.
Click to expand...

Thats true but they have also historically been less invasive than russia.

This is one reason why the US must always retain a technological edge-we can't afford to lose that.
 
JANFU said:
Well it was settled by them first was it not?
And then what happened.
But you know as well as I it ain't gonna happen.
Nor can a State secede.
Click to expand...

It was settled "first" by the Spanish, so by even their own flawed logic its not theirs. It does not stop the mentality though.
 
US Conservative said:
You continue to repeat the same empty questions. Cuba is marginalized, we need to start with the hot spots.
If Cuba decides to allow Russian nukes or invade its neighbors it moves up that list.
Click to expand...

are you under the impression that it's 1962?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom