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US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

flogger said:
How much does war cost ? Who cares as long as its necessary and as long as its won. Did the US or UK know how much WW2 was going to cost them and if they had would it have made a difference ?
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so, again, which wars do you consider to be the equivalent of WWII? and do you support a return to the tax rates which funded that war? i need specifics here, or i am going to stop wasting my time discussing this with you.

here are the tax rates during WWII :

Historical Top Tax Rates and Wartime « Reality Check
 
Helix said:
so, again, which wars do you consider to be the equivalent of WWII? and do you support a return to the tax rates which funded that war? i need specifics here, or i am going to stop wasting my time discussing this with you.

here are the tax rates during WWII :

Historical Top Tax Rates and Wartime « Reality Check
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I don't really care about taxes frankly. If a war has to be fought for the preservation of my way of life I'll pay them. If it doesn't I won't. I cannot put a specific dollar sign above it because nobody can
 
flogger said:
I don't really care about taxes frankly. If a war has to be fought for the preservation of my way of life I'll pay them. If it doesn't I won't. I cannot put a specific dollar sign above it because nobody can
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ok, we've established that you are fine with significant tax increases to pay for an endless state of war and the occupation that will follow. i assume that you support equal participation by Europe in this all out, multi front world war? next, we can choose fronts and strategy.
 
Helix said:
ok, we've established that you are fine with significant tax increases to pay for an endless state of war and the occupation that will follow.
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That is not what I said

i assume that you support equal participation by Europe in this all out, multi front world war? next, we can choose fronts and strategy.
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Europe will have no choice but to participate as most likely it will be the front line
 
flogger said:
That is not what I said
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then be more specific. how much are you willing to pay for a constant state of war and the occupation that will follow?

flogger said:
Europe will have no choice but to participate as most likely it will be the front line
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which brings us to fronts. the troublesome areas of the world include the Middle East, Africa, North Korea, and Ukraine. on which of these fronts do you support gloves off, boots on the ground war? also, what does that look like?
 
Helix said:
then be more specific. how much are you willing to pay for a constant state of war and the occupation that will follow?
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I'm prepared to pay any price necessary in order to defend my country or my allies. Is that clear enough ?

which brings us to fronts. the troublesome areas of the world include the Middle East, Africa, North Korea, and Ukraine. on which of these fronts do you support gloves off, boots on the ground war? also, what does that look like?
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I couldn't care less about the middle east or other far flung theaters. The middle east in particular is a rod the US has made for its own back because of the religious right and support for zionism. I want no part in that
 
flogger said:
I'm prepared to pay any price necessary in order to defend my country or my allies. Is that clear enough ?
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ok, so significant tax increases, like i said the first time.

flogger said:
I couldn't care less about the middle east or other far flung theaters. The middle east in particular is a rod the US has made for its own back because of the religious right and support for zionism. I want no part in that
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just Ukraine, then? what does that look like? because from this angle, it looks like war with Russia.
 
Helix said:
ok, so significant tax increases, like i said the first time.
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If its necessary .

just Ukraine, then? what does that look like? because from this angle, it looks like war with Russia.
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I hope it won't come to that, but sadly I think it might. We need to rearm fast and that costs money
 
flogger said:
If its necessary .



I hope it won't come to that, but sadly I think it might. We need to rearm fast and that costs money
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how do you see a hot war with Russia playing out? do you think they'll keep the kid gloves on?

and let's say that one side somehow manages to win. what does the post war world look like, in your opinion?
 
Helix said:
how do you see a hot war with Russia playing out? do you think they'll keep the kid gloves on?
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Not well. But if we don't rebuild our conventional military it will go to mushrooms sooner rather than later

and let's say that one side somehow manages to win. what does the post war world look like, in your opinion?
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Its not our side thats pulling the strings on this its just one mans ego. Do you think Europeans actually want to countenance this bleak future ? :(
 
Helix said:
why do you keep dancing around the question? how many all out wars do you want right now, what does that look like, and how much more are you willing to pay in taxes to fund these wars?
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I do not want war with Russia, and I dont think leading and aiding our allies to prevent further aggression will do that. In fact I think it will prevent a war. We should be at war with ISIS, we half-heartedly already are, I want to see them destroyed asap.

And once again, Im willing to pay what it takes, we can start by gutting liberal wealth redistribution schemes. :2wave:
 
flogger said:
Not well. But if we don't rebuild our conventional military it will go to mushrooms sooner rather than later



Its not our side thats pulling the strings on this its just one mans ego. Do you think Europeans actually want to countenance this bleak future ? :(
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nah, i think they want the US to handle it via brinksmanship. we all know that no one is going to war with Russia, because the consequences are too horrendous. yeah, Putin is trying to reassemble the Soviet Union as a modern czar. we lived through the first USSR, we'll live through the second, Putin will eventually croak, and then some other asshole will take his place. what we won't live through is war with Russia. what i want the US to do is to fix the ****ing roof of our own house for a while, because it's leaking.
 
US Conservative said:
I do not want war with Russia, and I dont think leading and aiding our allies to prevent further aggression will do that. In fact I think it will prevent a war. We should be at war with ISIS, we half-heartedly already are, I want to see them destroyed asap.

And once again, Im willing to pay what it takes, we can start by gutting liberal wealth redistribution schemes. :2wave:
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what follows IS?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I havent made anyone pay taxes......


What are you even talking about?


Again, what the hell are you talking about?

Of what? What are you even talking about?


Ok?


Ok?


No you did. Your employeer pays into an insurance program that is established by the state. The state government established certain rates employers pay for employment, They pay a certain into this fund, Its called "unemployment.". Each employer pays into this. IF you loose your job, you gain this benefit towards you .ITS CALLED UNEMPLOYMENT. But then again, you are against this benefit. Please make a check back to the state...
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You support increased taxation and intrusion in everyones lives. The dirty little secret of socialism, comrade, is that it raises taxation dramatically. Gruberites may not understand that or care because they dont pay much as is, but the rest of us do.
I can do better than your lowest common denominator govt-cheese schemes. Why would I agree to that when I can clearly do better?
And as for unemployment-theres no such thing as a free lunch, socialist. That increased and involuntary expense is passed on, in one way or another to me and to my patients. Spare me the propaganda, I know your angle.
 
flogger said:
Well you can add that one to another very long list of Putins political victims too. This list only goes up till 2009 but I think it makes my point

https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/putinmurders/
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Interesting timing, isn't it? He was killed the day before a protest against Putin.

I was reading about the Cheka in the ISSR, and it mentioned that historically Russians would rather fear a powerful leader than agree with his policies or techniques. I doubt its a coincidence.
 
flogger said:
I'd pay whatever it takes to preserve my freedoms and the safety of my family and here in the UK I'm a bit nearer the fire than you are.

As the old saying goes 'A stitch in time saves nine'
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Thats the universal truth that the left here can't seem to grasp, they are very short sighted.

Take Iraq-we left for the politics of the president-and now theres a terrorist state and your nation and mine are placing troops in harms way again. Sadly many more will die before its over.
 
Helix said:
ok, we've established that you are fine with significant tax increases to pay for an endless state of war and the occupation that will follow. i assume that you support equal participation by Europe in this all out, multi front world war? next, we can choose fronts and strategy.
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Wars are fought to win, comrade, not by a pocket book or calendar as you lefties seem to think.
 
Helix said:
nah, i think they want the US to handle it via brinksmanship. we all know that no one is going to war with Russia, because the consequences are too horrendous. yeah, Putin is trying to reassemble the Soviet Union as a modern czar. we lived through the first USSR, we'll live through the second, Putin will eventually croak, and then some other asshole will take his place. what we won't live through is war with Russia. what i want the US to do is to fix the ****ing roof of our own house for a while, because it's leaking.
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You truly have the heart and courage of a lion, dont you? When you allow such behavior unchecked you get more of it.
 
US Conservative said:
A russia that understands the consequences of its actions.

No lefty spin changes the fact that sometimes a bully needs to be punched in the nose.
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i missed the part in which you described how IS will be eliminated, how long the following occupation will be, and why you think any puppet regime that we eventually install will be more successful than the ones that have failed in the past.

and Russia scared of us? right. we'd have to nuke them first, and then they'd nuke us right back. put your brass knuckles away, because there's not going to be a war with Russia.
 
Helix said:
i missed the part in which you described how IS will be eliminated, how long the following occupation will be, and why you think any puppet regime that we eventually install will be more successful than the ones that have failed in the past.

and Russia scared of us? right. we'd have to nuke them first, and then they'd nuke us right back. put your brass knuckles away, because there's not going to be a war with Russia.
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ISIS will be eliminated by the US and its allies in the war on terror killing them. And then we will need to stay, as we did in Germany and Japan as long as its needed-likely decades. The good news is it will be a minimal force. Obvious problems in the Iraqi govt will need to be fixed but regardless we stay until its done.

And its not about making Russia "scared" its about creating disincentives and allowing it to sink in that they are real and profound. Even dictators understand force-its a universal language.
 
US Conservative said:
ISIS will be eliminated by the US and its allies in the war on terror killing them. And then we will need to stay, as we did in Germany and Japan as long as its needed-likely decades. The good news is it will be a minimal force. Obvious problems in the Iraqi govt will need to be fixed but regardless we stay until its done.
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so, a 60 year occupation of a large chunk of the Middle East? no thanks. i've got an alternative proposal, though : the regional hegemon should handle its own region, as we handle ours. you actually support doing Saudi Arabia's job for it, and for free?

additionally, even if we stay there for 60 years, more radical groups will pop up to take the place of IS, just like IS appeared when Al Qaeda was weakened. Syria is neither Germany nor Japan.

US Conservative said:
And its not about making Russia "scared" its about creating disincentives and allowing it to sink in that they are real and profound. Even dictators understand force-its a universal language.
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well, it sure is working.

alternatively, maybe we should concentrate on fixing our own country.
 
Helix said:
nah, i think they want the US to handle it via brinksmanship. we all know that no one is going to war with Russia, because the consequences are too horrendous. yeah, Putin is trying to reassemble the Soviet Union as a modern czar. we lived through the first USSR, we'll live through the second, Putin will eventually croak, and then some other asshole will take his place. what we won't live through is war with Russia. what i want the US to do is to fix the ****ing roof of our own house for a while, because it's leaking.
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So far it appears Putin is the one who decides if there will be war with Russia.

And he's winning. He has already captured Crimea in the biggest invasion land grab since Hitler and is closing in on Kyev.

If you're plan is waiting for Putin to die I have to ask how well that strategy is working for you in Cuba? Almost 60 years now,
 
Fearandloathing said:
So far it appears Putin is the one who decides if there will be war with Russia.

And he's winning. He has already captured Crimea in the biggest invasion land grab since Hitler and is closing in on Kyev.

If you're plan is waiting for Putin to die I have to ask how well that strategy is working for you in Cuba? Almost 60 years now,
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we're opening talks with Cuba. invasion didn't work.

so, what's your strategy for war with Russia in Ukraine? who participates, who does what, and how much do your taxes go up to fund it? maybe you'll be the first to respond with an actual plan.
 
Fearandloathing said:
So far it appears Putin is the one who decides if there will be war with Russia.

And he's winning. He has already captured Crimea in the biggest invasion land grab since Hitler and is closing in on Kyev.

If you're plan is waiting for Putin to die I have to ask how well that strategy is working for you in Cuba? Almost 60 years now,
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And for Russia the Crimea is Russian.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/New_Russia_on_territory_of_Ukraine.png

History of Crimea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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