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U.S. Announces Plan for Massive Counter-ISIS Attack [W:228]

My first thought is that those are pretty damned small brigades, if it takes that many to make up that number of troops. Of course you're right about never warning an enemy, but I always suspect disinformation when I see announcements like this. It would be unthinkable to try to recapture Mosul using nothing but local forces.

I am sure a good part of the hundred M-1 tanks, 18 self-propelled 155mm. howitzers, three dozen or so Bradley fighting vehicles, etc. that are on the way to that theater would support local infantry in any campaign to retake Mosul. M-1's are pretty much invulnerable in urban fighting--provided they have infantry to protect their rear, where the armor is thinner. A strong force of local infantry on foot and in armed vehicles would neutralize that threat. Continual real-time reconnaissance from drones overhead would also be a big tactical advantage in an assault on Mosul. (So would informers in the city that special forces had previously recruited.)

It might be well, too, to remind the inhabitants of Mosul that the U.S. has even bigger hammers available than tanks, and that it would not hesitate to use them even if it killed some civilians. I'm sure it would be a comfort to any ground commander to have a half-dozen B-52's and B-1's circling safely 35,000 feet overhead, each one loaded with twenty tons or more of guided bombs. For example, jihadist forces trying to assemble or train on the city soccer field might find it disruptive to have the whole field and stadium plastered with a couple dozen large bombs.

I'm assuming all Mosul's electric, gas, water, telephone, and sewer services, its trucks, its warehouses, its radio facilities, its fuel tanks, its roads, wharves, and bridges, and any rail lines or airports would be destroyed in the weeks before any assault. It's usually possible to put these things out of commission only temporarily, so that no enormous cost is incurred to reconstruct them later.

Iraq is forced to use the Army as the Shia Militias who have been more successful, probably receiving the top end of equipment and such would be a disaster as Mosul is multi-ethnic. Sunni's in Mosul would not be happy with the Iraqi army either.
A right proper mess to go into.
But Mosul sits on top of ISIL supply lines. Take that, control that area, ISIL is split and has to do an end run around Mosul to supply other areas.
Easier targets to take out.
Last the number of Iraqi troops 25 K- poorly trained, equipped, this could very well be a massive blood fest.
 
Hey, hey, no need to wave that white flag bitterly. You seem to believe that we didn't trumpet to the 4 winds that we were coming after Saddam and Baghdad from the start. Were you old enough to watch the war coverage by yourself in 2003?

Harden defences... against what exactly? Set up civilians by key strategic facilities? Moving hostages? Lol. Were they not doing these things already? Gee, one would think that big bad ISIL would have started doing these things now that they've gotten into fights the Kurds, Jordanians, Iran-backed Shiites, etc. Wait, they're only doing it now that the US is getting involved? Lol. Get serious.


So you don't know much about military tactics, nothing about logistics. Do you think that harden defenses, moving in more anti Air, setting more mines. Inside a city that has bridges and that has an underground that you laugh at the fact that defenses could be improved on from what one had set up from their beginning. Have more withdrawal points that they can fight from when looking to cut and run. A bit much for you to try and conceptualize huh? To difficult to comprehend, eh.

Wait do you know anything about trying to stay alive when a known offensive is coming in a combat area? Anything at all?

Yeah I get a good chuckle out of those that think they know some **** about the Military.....when they actually don't. Is that what your civilian handbook tells ya. :lamo



Yeah which was my point about 2 wrongs don't make it Right.....Here is where we started and all that mocking of yours came in. Yet all that military experience you have showed Right thru .....as well as what you couldnt fathom or comprehend. :roll: But thanks for showing how you played it so you could bring BUSH in just to say the Repubs had done so too. :mrgreen:

Note how it seemed to me is was all that mocking BS you was doing. While not knowing what you were talking about.

How you looking now Champ. Besides you know, all that howdy doody hot air and whatnot.
 
Yeah which was my point about 2 wrongs don't make it Right.....Here is where we started and all that mocking of yours came in.

Yes and here is where your fabrication of what I said comes in:

Hatuey said:
Were they not doing these things already? Gee, one would think that big bad ISIL would have started doing these things now that they've gotten into fights the Kurds, Jordanians, Iran-backed Shiites, etc. Wait, they're only doing it now that the US is getting involved? Lol. Get serious.

I mocked your absurd belief that ISIL wouldn't already be doing these things. Are you still going to tell us that I discussed what ISIL wouldn't do? The best part is that you finally admitted that ISIL would be doing these things if they had any military experience. That alone completely dilutes your partisan knee jerk reaction to us making it clear that we're coming after them. C'man MMC. Show us that reading is important and mental. :)
 
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Blah, blah, blah. I'm so sick of you people exaggerating the capabilities of ISIS. They're a bunch of well armed rag tag thugs that will have their asses handed to them by the best army in the world.

They did not get so far, so fast by being stupid. And note, they will be fighting the Iraqi Army, not the Canadian Military -OK. Had to put that in.
 
It is an excellent read.
Those chatting here should give it a good twice over.

Wonder what Douglas Ollivant's angle is on this. As an advisor to the Monument Capital Group, he no doubt personally benefits from conflicts such as that in Iraq. Investing in global and national security, critical infrastructure, aerospace and government services industries!?
 
Yes and here is where your fabrication of what I said comes in:



I mocked your absurd belief that ISIL wouldn't already be doing these things. Are you still going to tell us that I discussed what ISIL wouldn't do? C'man MMC. Show us that reading is important and mental. :)



But then there was no absurd Belief as I came back with what was standard and generally well known and which you were already shown.

Oh and Post 65 is where you dropped the 5 links to show how it worked with the Repubs. That's when you came with your lil
nyah.gif
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Routine.

I just showed it with the issue of hardening defenses. Setting up defenses and then hardening defenses are two different things.

There going forward any reading the thread fully can see all I stated. So.....NO, It was you mocking and not know how those in the military work and you hoping I had some absurd belief. Again.....one of those specific statement you were looking to play off.


Then to top it off I had to school you on all ISIS was doing just recently.


Try again since the beginning I have stated it will take more than Arab forces.....so it was never a false narrative. Oh and when I have Team BO talking out Both sides of its mouth as to what they are doing. Then show that's exactly what they have said and now want all to think we are taking some sort of action and this will come down in a few months, led by the Iraqis. That we trained them....I can see how you would think this is some sort of major action by us.

Oh and as to ISIS.....the Islamic State. This does give them time to get ready for this possible offensive. More time.....see in the meantime. They have opened up a front in Lebanon. Took more ground in Syria and Iraq. Just put on an offensive forcing the Kurds to reinforce their lines to Erbil. Which doesn't count them taking the town of Baghdadi, and what they are doing in Anbar Province, while continuously using suicide bombers in Baghdad. While at the same time tested the Saud's New Border Fence.

So you can see just how focused on waiting around for someone to show up to deal with them they are. Despite now knowing they have some more time to play with, over one offensive thought up by us to be executed by the Iraqis and possibly the Kurds, depending on if they have to defend their lines to Erbil again.
 
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Wonder what Douglas Ollivant's angle is on this. As an advisor to the Monument Capital Group, he no doubt personally benefits from conflicts such as that in Iraq. Investing in global and national security, critical infrastructure, aerospace and government services industries!?

Calling it as he sees it- Iraq is a sectarian mess now. Time will tell, if the Shia continue the policies they had under the previous PM, well they and they world will be looking at the same mess again.
Now the difference being 100 K Shia Militia who do not take orders from the Govt.
 
Calling it as he sees it- Iraq is a sectarian mess now. Time will tell, if the Shia continue the policies they had under the previous PM, well they and they world will be looking at the same mess again.
Now the difference being 100 K Shia Militia who do not take orders from the Govt.

Calling it as he sees it, ok. I guess that's what every bodies doing. I think its far fetched to be making such grandiose declarations about the demise of the Islamic State in Iraq within two years. Two years ago nobody would have known what the Islamic State is, let alone that they'd be wrecking havoc across the region, burning people alive and chopping folks heads of while they're suntanning on the beach.
 
But then there was no absurd Belief as I came back with what was standard and generally well known and which you were already shown.

Lmao, I was shown what I said was inevitable since the beginning? Ummm alright.

Oh and Post 65 is where you dropped the 5 links to show how it worked with the Repubs.

Yes, and I then explained that I didn't care then and won't care now because it was as inconsequential to the war itself. What I simply pointed out is that this nothing new or for that matter relevant to the general outcome of a war. The fact that the Bush administration did it and still won the fight against Saddam proves it. You've made some really claims here:

First you claimed that I discussed what ISIL wouldn't do. Then when I asked you prove that, you couldn't.
Then you assumed that I had brought up links discussing what ISIL would do. I didn't.
Then you stated that I brought up what the Bush administration did and it was wrong. Even though it's clear that the Bush administration defeated Saddam's forces regardless.
Now you're saying that I was shown something I stated would be happening regardless of whether we declared we'd be going after ISIL or not. That contradicts your previous assertion that I had discussed what ISIL wouldn't do.

You're welcome to retract your false claims any minute now. I can wait.
 
Lmao, I was shown what I said was inevitable since the beginning? Ummm alright.



Yes, and I then explained that I didn't care then and won't care now because it was as inconsequential to the war itself. What I simply pointed out is that this nothing new or for that matter relevant to the general outcome of a war. The fact that the Bush administration did it proves it. You've made some really claims here:

First you claimed that I discussed what ISIL wouldn't do. Then when I asked you prove that, you couldn't.
Then you assumed that I had brought up links discussing what ISIL would do. I didn't.
Then you stated that I brought up what the Bush administration did and it was wrong. Even though it's clear that the Bush administration defeated Saddam's forces regardless.
Now you're saying that I was shown something I stated would be happening regardless of whether we declared we'd be going after ISIL or not.

You're welcome to retract your false claims any minute now. I can wait.



I just showed what you said and I did in return.....and if you think you have some version to reality. Your Deluded!

But you can attempt to play with that Ring around your collar all you want. I'm not tired.


here since the page turned and we know you leftist like to play with the out of sight and out of mind routine.



Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

Harden defences... against what exactly? Set up civilians by key strategic facilities? Moving hostages? Lol. Were they not doing these things already? Gee, one would think that big bad ISIL would have started doing these things now that they've gotten into fights the Kurds, Jordanians, Iran-backed Shiites, etc. Wait, they're only doing it now that the US is getting involved? Lol. Get serious.
 
I just showed what you said and I did in return

Yes, and it explicitly even says that ISIL would be doing these things if they are as dangerous as you've made them out to be. Which you agreed and goes in direct contradiction with your claim that I discussed what ISIL wouldn't do. :lol: Let's get serious. :)

Posting it again doesn't change what is being said. Here, I'll bold it for you:

Gee, one would think that big bad ISIL would have started doing these things now that they've gotten into fights the Kurds, Jordanians, Iran-backed Shiites, etc. Wait, they're only doing it now that the US is getting involved? Lol. Get serious.

C'man man. It's almost like you're trying to undermine all of your claims about what I have stated since the beginning.
 
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The jihadists' best weapon, so far, has been B. Hussein Obama. But even President Pinprick may have been convinced by his military advisers that this ISIS problem is spreading and getting out of hand. And it wouldn't look good, either for his legacy or for whatever Democrat runs for president, to have another 9/11 while he's still in the White House. Apparently the U.S., in cooperation with the Kurdish provincial government, has turned Irbil airport into a military base. It has both a 9,200 ft. asphalt runway and a 15,700 ft.! concrete one a Turkish firm added about five years ago. I don't know if there is a secure land route from Kuwait to Irbil, especially the section from Baghdad north to Kirkuk.

But with a runway that long, at only about 1,500 ft. elevation, a C-17 could bring in an M-1 tank with a good margin of safety. And a C-17 can easily carry two Bradley fighting vehicles. It could probably also carry two Paladin self-propelled howitzers, or one of them and its ammunition carrier. If only several dozen heavy vehicles were involved, it would probably be practical to use a few cargo planes to airlift them in this way. Of course I'm just speculating, but photos of that Irbil base which seem to be recent show quite a lot of heavy equipment and storage containers there already.

Nothing for the degenerate curs in Mosul to worry about, though. They can go on cutting off little kids' heads and pushing homosexuals off rooftops with complete peace of mind. After all, they have AK-47's, and machine guns on pickup trucks, and mortars, and even a few captured Humvees and howitzers and tanks, complete with operating manuals! And above all, their faith in Allah makes all the infidels' mighty weapons as nothing!
 
Yes, and it explicitly even says that ISIL would be doing these things if they are as dangerous as you've made them out to be. Which you agreed and goes in direct contradiction with your claim that I discussed what ISIL wouldn't do. :lol: Get serious.


No see it all comes down to what you said, that now you say you didn't say. Which again what all ISIS was doing was then shown to you. I am sure I am not the only that sees you don't know what the difference of offense and defense is.



Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

Harden defences... against what exactly? Set up civilians by key strategic facilities? Moving hostages? Lol. Were they not doing these things already? Gee, one would think that big bad ISIL would have started doing these things now that they've gotten into fights the Kurds, Jordanians, Iran-backed Shiites, etc. Wait, they're only doing it now that the US is getting involved? Lol. Get serious.
 
No see it all comes down to what you said, that now you say you didn't say. Which again what all ISIS was doing was then shown to you. I am sure I am not the only that sees you don't know what the difference of offense and defense is.

What... I didn't say? Ummm... I said that one would think ISIL would already be doing these things. Which you agreed if they have any military experience. What I mocked was the belief that they would be doing it only now that the US has decided to take action. You really are having trouble with this.
 
Calling it as he sees it, ok. I guess that's what every bodies doing. I think its far fetched to be making such grandiose declarations about the demise of the Islamic State in Iraq within two years. Two years ago nobody would have known what the Islamic State is, let alone that they'd be wrecking havoc across the region, burning people alive and chopping folks heads of while they're suntanning on the beach.

They will be around for quite some time.
 
What... I didn't say? Ummm... I said that one would think ISIL would already be doing these things. Which you agreed if they have any military experience. What I mocked was the belief that they would be doing it only now that the US has decided to take action. You really are having trouble with this.

Which again no one said they would be just doing it now....so that's where your first confusion comes into play and you tried to jump off of that. Which was why you were shown what had been presented to you.

Also now that ISIS knows of the Iraqi force.....it would change some scenarios for hostages. Which they would certainly use while hardening up the defenses they had already set up. Which as there would be no way for them to know of this info before.
 
Which again no one said they would be just doing it now....so that's where your first confusion comes into play and you tried to jump off of that. Which was why you were shown what had been presented to you.

Also now that ISIS knows of the Iraqi force.....it would change some scenarios for hostages. Which they would certainly use while hardening up the defenses they had already set up. Which as there would be no way for them to know of this info before.

The largely Shiite troops of the Iraqi army are unlikely to risk their lives to win back a Sunni dominated city, several U.S. military officers told The Daily Beast on Friday. Indeed, when ISIS stormed the city last June, Iraqi forces walked away, leading the U.S. and 60 other nations to form a coalition against the terror group.

Even if the Iraqi troops do stand up and fight the self-proclaimed Islamic State, having a Shiite force move in and potentially ravage a major Sunni city in a bid to save it could have adverse affects on the Sunnis in Iraq and broader Sunni Arab world. Sectarian tensions, particularly in Iraq, run that deep.

“I cannot believe that Shiites would fight for Mosul,” one officer who served in the restive Sunni province of Anbar during the Iraq War told The Daily Beast.
So far, there is no evidence of a strong Sunni-majority Iraqi Army brigade, and U.S. Central Command has said it will take at least eight brigades to win back the city

Exclusive: Pentagon Doubts Its Own ISIS War Plan - The Daily Beast
 
Which again no one said they would be just doing it now

Lmao, you were the person to suggest that this gave ISIL the opportunity to take measures to defend themselves. Here you are:

How about harden defenses, traps, set up civilians by key strategic facilities, move valuable equipment around, and of course hostages.

What was pointed out (by me) is that they've been preparing for this long before we announced it. Hell, it's only logical if they've fought the Jordanians, Iran backed Shiite and Kurds. You agreed and even stated that it would be logical if they have any military experience. As such, being outraged that this information is now public is absurd for the very reasons you yourself agreed to: If they have any military experience, it's only logical they'd be preparing for this long before we announced it. Let's get serious, man.
 
The largely Shiite troops of the Iraqi army are unlikely to risk their lives to win back a Sunni dominated city, several U.S. military officers told The Daily Beast on Friday. Indeed, when ISIS stormed the city last June, Iraqi forces walked away, leading the U.S. and 60 other nations to form a coalition against the terror group.

Even if the Iraqi troops do stand up and fight the self-proclaimed Islamic State, having a Shiite force move in and potentially ravage a major Sunni city in a bid to save it could have adverse affects on the Sunnis in Iraq and broader Sunni Arab world. Sectarian tensions, particularly in Iraq, run that deep.

“I cannot believe that Shiites would fight for Mosul,” one officer who served in the restive Sunni province of Anbar during the Iraq War told The Daily Beast.
So far, there is no evidence of a strong Sunni-majority Iraqi Army brigade, and U.S. Central Command has said it will take at least eight brigades to win back the city

Exclusive: Pentagon Doubts Its Own ISIS War Plan - The Daily Beast

If the real plan were for Kurds to make up most of an infantry force assigned to take Mosul, talking a lot about how it would be made up of mostly Shia Iraqi army troops would be one way to deceive the jihadists. In the same way, if the real plan were not to attack Mosul directly at all, it might not be a bad deception to float stories about going right into the city.
 
Lmao, you were the person to suggest that this gave ISIL the opportunity to take measures to defend themselves. Here you are:



What was pointed out (by me) is that they've been preparing for this long before we announced it. Hell, it's only logical if they've fought the Jordanians, Iran backed Shiite and Kurds. You agreed and even stated that it would be logical if they have any military experience. As such, being outraged that this information is now public is absurd for the very reasons you yourself agreed to: If they have any military experience, it's only logical they'd be preparing for this long before we announced it. Let's get serious, man.



Yeah I just pointed out they would harden them even more. Its not that difficult to figure out. They have had defenses up in Mosul for some time. Which goes back to the basics. I already shown what you stated and then I showed you what ISIS was actually doing. Then what Team BO said and now was saying.

So get serious.....it was like I said with the mocking BS.
 
The largely Shiite troops of the Iraqi army are unlikely to risk their lives to win back a Sunni dominated city, several U.S. military officers told The Daily Beast on Friday. Indeed, when ISIS stormed the city last June, Iraqi forces walked away, leading the U.S. and 60 other nations to form a coalition against the terror group.

Even if the Iraqi troops do stand up and fight the self-proclaimed Islamic State, having a Shiite force move in and potentially ravage a major Sunni city in a bid to save it could have adverse affects on the Sunnis in Iraq and broader Sunni Arab world. Sectarian tensions, particularly in Iraq, run that deep.

“I cannot believe that Shiites would fight for Mosul,” one officer who served in the restive Sunni province of Anbar during the Iraq War told The Daily Beast.
So far, there is no evidence of a strong Sunni-majority Iraqi Army brigade, and U.S. Central Command has said it will take at least eight brigades to win back the city

Exclusive: Pentagon Doubts Its Own ISIS War Plan - The Daily Beast


Yeah AT. :2wave: And then these guys were saying this.


"From the beginning, they've been obsessed with the Awakening," said Hassan. "They've done everything to prevent it happening again: built sleeper cells, bought loyalty, divided communities. "They've succeeded in making internal resistance practically impossible. No tribe will fight them, because they will find themselves fighting their own brothers and cousins."

Although the Baathists were originally a secular movement, Saddam introduced a "Faith campaign" in the 1990s that sought to Islamise society. "Very few people have focused on the impact of that campaign," said Hassan. "It radicalised many Baathists and they combined the violence of the regime with that of jihadism, making them even worse than Al-Qaeda." "But they have combined religion, geopolitics, economics and much more in their ideology.....snip~

IS has built near-impregnable base and mass appeal: new book
 
The largely Shiite troops of the Iraqi army are unlikely to risk their lives to win back a Sunni dominated city, several U.S. military officers told The Daily Beast on Friday. Indeed, when ISIS stormed the city last June, Iraqi forces walked away, leading the U.S. and 60 other nations to form a coalition against the terror group.

Even if the Iraqi troops do stand up and fight the self-proclaimed Islamic State, having a Shiite force move in and potentially ravage a major Sunni city in a bid to save it could have adverse affects on the Sunnis in Iraq and broader Sunni Arab world. Sectarian tensions, particularly in Iraq, run that deep.

“I cannot believe that Shiites would fight for Mosul,” one officer who served in the restive Sunni province of Anbar during the Iraq War told The Daily Beast.
So far, there is no evidence of a strong Sunni-majority Iraqi Army brigade, and U.S. Central Command has said it will take at least eight brigades to win back the city

Exclusive: Pentagon Doubts Its Own ISIS War Plan - The Daily Beast

Iraq only has 2 choices- The Army or the Shia Militia.
Kurds will be holding a line.
 
Yeah I just pointed out they would harden them even more.

Lmao, we're back at square one. First you're saying that it's common sense that it would happen anyways if they have any military experience. Now you're complaining that they might do what you already agreed would happen anyways. Do you or do you not believe that this would have happened regardless? If the answer is yes, then there is absolutely nothing for you to complain about. If the answer is no, then you've just contradicted at least 3 of your own posts. By the way, I'm still waiting for you to show me that post discussing what ISIL wouldn't do.
 
Lmao, we're back at square one. First you're saying that it's common sense that it would happen anyways if they have any military experience. Now you're complaining that they might do what you already agreed would happen anyways. Do you or do you not believe that this would have happened regardless? If the answer is yes, then there is absolutely nothing for you to complain about. If the answer is no, then you've just contradicted at least 3 of your own posts. By the way, I'm still waiting for you to show me that post discussing what ISIL wouldn't do.


Yeah we are and its like Thrilla mentioned.....all your so called Military understanding. Well.....he deferred. Me.....I'll tell you like it is.

Its just not there!
 
Yeah we are and its like Thrilla mentioned.....all your so called Military understanding. Well.....he deferred. Me.....I'll tell you like it is.

Its just not there!

I accept your acknowledgement of defeat. You made erroneous claims about what I said and then when called to validate them, you couldn't. There is nothing else for us to discuss here other than the fact that your narrative has fallen apart.
 
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