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Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientation

Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

The real real issue is where to draw the line, because not every case works out lie this one where another doctor saw the baby. Life is full of unexpected events and accidents, and if all the people who took it upon themselves to serve the public all of a sudden started picking and choosing who among the public meets their criteria, we would see the end of civilized society.

No one serves the public. Your entire line of reasoning is based on a false premise.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

I don't care about the behavior. I wouldn't care if Bob down the street called one of the wives a fat sob either. You do. So care about it, but don't expect others to worry about one adult not liking the bedroom preferences of two other adults.

By the way, yes, as a mother of 3, I'm basing my opinion on experience. I changed pediatricians once because I didn't like her bedside manner and the way she talked down to my husband for asking a question. Or am I not allowed to have opinions on doctor selections for my own family because experience isn't important to you?

You are correct. A non-news story blown out of the water.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

If you're in a group practice as a doctor, do you think you should have the right to ask your partner to cover for you?

That didnt answer my question. In each case...Dr, cop, fireman, there would be cases where there was little or no time to shift responsibilities to others. Are their religious beliefs a justifiable reason to deny assistance?
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

I don't care about the behavior.
Yes that is quite clear, hence to impression that you are an apologist for it.

I wouldn't care if Bob down the street called one of the wives a fat sob either. You do.
Of course I do I used to date her...
But why are yo making this stuff up?

So care about it, but don't expect others to worry about one adult not liking the bedroom preferences of two other adults.
Except this is not about that but the failure of a bigot to do what she took upon herself to do.

By the way, yes, as a mother of 3, I'm basing my opinion on experience.
Relevance?
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

You may not care but I sure do. I don't need emotionally unstable trainwrecks anywhere me or mine.

And that's the beauty of this story. She didn't see their baby, and another perfectly qualified doctor in the same practice did, with no inconvenience to the parents at all. And now the parents are free to leave the practice and go elsewhere if they want. Which is why there's no major story here.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

Yes that is quite clear, hence to impression that you are an apologist for it.

Of course I do I used to date her...
But why are yo making this stuff up?

Except this is not about that but the failure of a bigot to do what she took upon herself to do.

Relevance?

You used to date one of the mothers at the center of this story? Okay, so that's why this is personal to you.

Sorry, it isn't to me. But I support your right to make a crusade out of this story. Just don't expect everyone else to care about it. I'm glad we as adults and parents get to choose our own doctors.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

1.)I don't assume she's anything. I don't really care what her religion is. It's not relevant to anything.
2.)Not my business what who people marry, and not my business what other adults think of other people's choice of marriage partners, either. She's free to not want to associate with the parents, just as they're free not to want to associate with her.
3.)The baby got medical care.

1.) not entirely true . . . it is relevant because she made is so but again I dont care about hair splitting
2.) yes she is if that is all we are talking about and in this current case she broke no official laws, i bet that changes there soon those as it should
3.) never claimed she didnt in general i pointed out who the woman denied it to in counter point to the splitting hair claim of its just the parents.

SO again is your curiosity settled lol?
There no logical reason to assume she is christian so i didnt
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

That didnt answer my question. In each case...Dr, cop, fireman, there would be cases where there was little or no time to shift responsibilities to others. Are their religious beliefs a justifiable reason to deny assistance?

If I had to call 911, I just want someone to show up. I don't care who it is. Do you?

Cops and firemen tend to respond to emergencies. This story? Not an emergency. It was a prescheduled baby wellness check.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

These doctors, or in any state, are not permitted to deny emergency care
Why, aren't their convictions or faith just as valid?

The point I was trying to make is, why wouldn't you as a homosexual seek out service from those that were more accepting?
Normally yes, but the issue is that once such bigotry becomes acceptable at some level it becomes acceptable at all levels.

By the way how do you feel about being humiliated? Does it just roll of your back, do you feel angry, even a desire to even the score?
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

These doctors, or in any state, are not permitted to deny emergency care, not even in Michigan. The point I was trying to make is, why wouldn't you as a homosexual seek out service from those that were more accepting?

Tim-

Because doctors don't have personal profiles that say, "Not a bigoted asshole -- gays and their children accepted here." That's why.

So, what, they should just wander around knocking on doors until they find one, meanwhile their child isn't getting their regular check-ups, or perhaps their treatment for an illness? Or perhaps resort to paying 5 times as much money by going to the ER, if they can't afford any further delay?

Why? Why should doctors be permitted to subject people to that? Why should gay people have to look for a doctor who's "accepting" in the first place? Everyone deals with people they don't like while on the job, and usually in jobs that are far less critical than health care. Yet doctors, who decide if people live or die, should be the exception?

Why the hell should that be allowed?
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

1.) not entirely true . . . it is relevant because she made is so but again I dont care about hair splitting
2.) yes she is if that is all we are talking about and in this current case she broke no official laws, i bet that changes there soon those as it should
3.) never claimed she didnt in general i pointed out who the woman denied it to in counter point to the splitting hair claim of its just the parents.

SO again is your curiosity settled lol?
There no logical reason to assume she is christian so i didnt

So you don't assume she's Christian. Okay. Good. I don't care what her religion is. It isn't relevant anyway.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

She served the baby by having her partner see the baby. Which was probably a better experience for the parents as well. Why would they want to have a doctor see their baby who refuses to see them the same way a hetero couple is seen?

Reality is that she should have said this to begin with, at the very least. The article states they had talked to her during prenatal care, and she set up the appointment. Then she refused to see them. It is completely possible that her partner couldn't have seen them but then she would have had to see them or cancelled their appointment due to her religion based bigotry.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

I don't get the reasoning here. Is the baby gay?

When she gets shamed out of business she won't get any sympathy from me.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Because doctors don't have personal profiles that say, "Not a bigoted asshole -- gays and their children accepted here." That's why.

So, what, they should just wander around knocking on doors until they find one, meanwhile their child isn't getting their regular check-ups, or perhaps their treatment for an illness? Or perhaps resort to paying 5 times as much money by going to the ER, if they can't afford any further delay?

Why? Why should doctors be permitted to subject people to that? Why should gay people have to look for a doctor who's "accepting" in the first place? Everyone deals with people they don't like while on the job, and usually in jobs that are far less critical than health care. Yet doctors, who decide if people live or die, should be the exception?

Why the hell should that be allowed?

Who says doctors are allowed to remove patients from their practice and force the patient to go to the ER and pay more money? And who decided someone should die?

How did this story become about dying? She had her partner see the baby for a wellness check on the day and time of the scheduled visit.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

And that's the beauty of this story. She didn't see their baby, and another perfectly qualified doctor in the same practice did, with no inconvenience to the parents at all. And now the parents are free to leave the practice and go elsewhere if they want. Which is why there's no major story here.

I disagree. If I was a parent in that area I sure would appreciate knowing which paediatrician to avoid. I expect my doctors to have a little more self-control than this woman mustered. I'm not impressed with her and I frankly question her emotional stability. I'm glad the story is out there. I mean what's next? A teacher requesting that all children whose parents she disapproves of be removed from her class and given to another teacher? Shouldn't we expect a little more strength of character in certain professions?
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Doctors have been "mutilating" the genitals of babies for a long time.

And just because you think they are unnecessary, doesn't make it true. You are not a doctor, nor are you truly concerned about the mental health of such people.

Indeed, and it does a considerable amount of harm and thus violates their oath. It also doesn't treat or cure the condition, but instead deals with the side effects of the condition. :shrug:
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

If I had to call 911, I just want someone to show up. I don't care who it is. Do you?

Cops and firemen tend to respond to emergencies. This story? Not an emergency. It was a prescheduled baby wellness check.

Yes, but when the fireman got there and discovered you were a lesbian couple, is it ok not to put the fire out? (I hate to say it but from what I've read in other threads here, there are those that would be happy to see a gay couple burn in those prophetic fires of Hell).

And I agree this was a non-issue for *this* baby...but I am looking at it from a broader level...the implications that it could have. If it's ok for this doctor to refuse treatment....is it also ok if she was the only doc and it was an emergency?
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

Reality is that she should have said this to begin with, at the very least. The article states they had talked to her during prenatal care, and she set up the appointment. Then she refused to see them. It is completely possible that her partner couldn't have seen them but then she would have had to see them or cancelled their appointment due to her religion based bigotry.

It's completely possible that she could have gotten run over by a bus on the morning of the baby's scheduled visit and not seen the baby either. But the partner saw the baby, didn't she? And there is nothing in the story that says that she didn't discuss this with her partner in advance, is there?

Hypotheticals. We can play them all day long. How about addressing the story, and what did happen. And it wasn't a tragedy or even an inconvenience to the parents. It's a group practice.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

You used to date one of the mothers at the center of this story? Okay, so that's why this is personal to you.
Come now at least show enough integrity to acknowledge that you agree with this kind of bigotry. You have made enough apologies already for it and also had enough dodges.

I'm glad we as adults and parents get to choose our own doctors.
Yes, me too, but as you well know it this is not about choosing doctors, but about the bigotry of one, which you clearly support.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Maybe not in your world but this is reality.

In reality people serve those they either consent to serve or those they are forced to.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

It's completely possible that she could have gotten run over by a bus on the morning of the baby's scheduled visit and not seen the baby either. But the partner saw the baby, didn't she? And there is nothing in the story that says that she didn't discuss this with her partner in advance, is there?

Hypotheticals. We can play them all day long. How about addressing the story, and what did happen. And it wasn't a tragedy or even an inconvenience to the parents. It's a group practice.

Not really the point, IMO. I'm looking at it as a precedent....is that behavior ok in the broader sense because of course...others may behave similarly.

Perhaps that's why a court case is a good idea....to examine the issue and provide at least protections for the doctors (if warranted) and for patients.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Yes, but when the fireman got there and discovered you were a lesbian couple, is it ok not to put the fire out?

And I agree this was a non-issue for *this* baby...but I am looking at it from a broader level...the implications that it could have. If it's ok for this doctor to refuse treatment....is it also ok if she was the only doc and it was an emergency?

A fireman can't decide he won't put a fire out because he doesn't like the people, unless there are other firemen with him who can do the job without him. Then if he choses to walk away, it's between him and his superiors. As long as my house is saved as it's supposed to be, why would I care ?

The other big difference being this wasn't an emergency situation. People are turning this into an emergency situation. It wasn't. That would be entirely different if this couple drove their sick baby to a hospital and the only doctor there refused to see the baby. But that isn't what happened. In fact, not even close.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Who says doctors are allowed to remove patients from their practice and force the patient to go to the ER and pay more money? And who decided someone should die?

How did this story become about dying? She had her partner see the baby for a wellness check on the day and time of the scheduled visit.

What if there aren't alternative doctors? What if the alternative doctors are also bigots?

Then the parents waste time and their child isn't getting health care. Eventually, this can end in sickness and huge bills if they just resort to going to the only place they're certain won't turn them away.

We have seen this before, in the form of the Plan B debacle, which leads to unwanted pregnancies, and therefore either potentially insurmountable expense, or harm to the woman, potentially ending in death. And just like in those threads, the defenders in this one mostly don't care whether there had been an alternative doctor or not. The person I'm responding to didn't seem to -- they defend the "right" of doctors to refuse to do their job based on their bigotry.

And even if that isn't the eventuality, I'm sorry, but when you're on the clock, your personal BS needs to go on the back burner. Just do you job like everyone else. This couple and their child don't deserve to be subject to emotional brow-beating and humiliation by supposed "professionals" either. Their lives are hard enough being gay in America.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

Come now at least show enough integrity to acknowledge that you agree with this kind of bigotry. You have made enough apologies already for it and also had enough dodges.

Yes, me too, but as you well know it this is not about choosing doctors, but about the bigotry of one, which you clearly support.

Please stop asking me to join the emotional bandwagon you're on. I don't care who likes who. Not my business, and I'll show you the same courtesy by not asking you to dislike the same people that I don't like.
 
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