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Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108 mill

Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Well, there is opinion, and then there are facts. I appreciate your opinion, but I'll stick to the facts.

Best to fund the pension plan when there are 1000 employees rather than try to do it with 100 years later. Those are the facts. You're welcome to hate on Republicans while doing everything you can to ignore the facts.

Clearly you don't. :lol:
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Nor is it yours. Nearly $8 trillion of that $18 trillion has been amassed under one man: Obama.

:yawn:

Pure BS.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

:yawn:

Pure BS.
The debt hit $10 trillion in October of 2008. Obama took office 3 months later. Do the math.
Actually, I will do the math for you since it seems to be giving you some trouble. Ready?

18,000,000,000,000
-10,000,000,000,000
8,000,000,000,000
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

The debt hit $10 trillion in October of 2008. Obama took office 3 months later. Do the math.
Actually, I will do the math for you since it seems to be giving you some trouble. Ready?

18,000,000,000,000
-10,000,000,000,000
8,000,000,000,000

Whose budget was that 2009 budget again?

I'll let the uber conservative think tank CATO Institute explain it for you.

Don’t Blame Obama for Bush’s 2009 Deficit

... (Fletch's opinion is wrongly) based on the assumption that the current administration should be blamed for the 2009 fiscal year. While this makes sense to a casual observer, it is largely untrue. The 2009 fiscal year began October 1, 2008, nearly four months before Obama took office. The budget for the entire fiscal year was largely set in place while Bush was in the White House.​

Nice try. Too bad your snark has to taste like crow now.
 
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Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Whose budget was that 2009 budget again?

I'll let the uber conservative think tank CATO Institute explain it for you.

Don’t Blame Obama for Bush’s 2009 Deficit

... (Fletch's opinion is wrongly) based on the assumption that the current administration should be blamed for the 2009 fiscal year. While this makes sense to a casual observer, it is largely untrue. The 2009 fiscal year began October 1, 2008, nearly four months before Obama took office. The budget for the entire fiscal year was largely set in place while Bush was in the White House.​

Nice try. Too bad your snark has to taste like crow now.
It doesn't taste like crow at all. I love how you liberals want to give Obama credit for all the spending that helped save the world from the global recession but stick Bush with the tab. Have it your way. It was Bushs spending and budget that lifted us out of the recession, which only serves to make Obama that much more of an insignificant president. But unfortunately for you, the math still doesn't work in your favor. Pile that trillion onto Bush and you still have $7,000,000,000,000 added to the debt by a single man: Obama. And he isn't done yet. He will get to 8,000,000,000,00. Easy.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

I care because some people think he's fit to run MY NATION.

And you don't agree. Why not? The taxpayers in his state liked him enough to reelect him in one of the highest voter turnouts they ever had. He must be doing something right.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Clearly you don't. :lol:

LOL. I guess it would have been more accurate to have written I appreciate you HAVE an opinion. You're correct to conclude I think your opinion ihas no basis in reality, but I do appreciate you took the time to offer it. :2razz:
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Tax cuts aren't a problem when they're fair and meant to be temporary. It's when they're made permanent and/OR the responsibility of government revenue generation isn't distributed on a more equitable basis, i.e., less taxation for the rich, more taxation for the working-class, very little if any for the poor, that's when it becomes a problem. Prolonged (or permanent) tax cuts further compound problems in the economy when your tax structure is based moreso on consumption and the number of consumers dwindle OR the cost of consumer goods and services increase where wages remain relatively flat. When such happens, you lose the positive impact consumer spending is meant to have on the economy. Less buyers, more sellers = reduced GDP (in this case at the state-level) which translates to less revenue to work with.

Even if the debt is spread out over time, you'll still have to make up that revenue shortfall somewhere. So, the irresponsibility here per the OP really is the fact that Gov. Walker's tax cutting budget strategy does "kick the can further down the road" by purposely running up a short-term debt with no way to pay it down in the near future despite coming into office lamenting "balanced budgets, debt/deficit reductions". Put another way: If Republicans are going to scream about the federal government running up debts and deficits, then why can't the people call out state executives for doing the same?

Once again, someone who thinks that tax cuts have no effect on the economy. These don't happen in a vacuum, they have an effect on the overall economy and it is a positive one, albeit a long term one. People ignore the long term effects of tax cuts only focus on one side of the equation CHOOSING to ignore the rest of the economic impact of cutting taxes. Now, I'll probably be accused of saying that I think that taxes should be eliminated altogether (that's what usually happens in these kind of discussions), and that's not what I or almost any other person who supports tax cuts believe. Our tax base should be wide and shallow instead of the narrow and tall model that tax increase supporters want to see. We need the money in the economy, creating jobs, increasing the number of taxpayers and driving tax revenue through having a lot of taxpayers, instead of taxing fewer taxpayers even more.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

It doesn't taste like crow at all. I love how you liberals want to give Obama credit for all the spending that helped save the world from the global recession but stick Bush with the tab. Have it your way. It was Bushs spending and budget that lifted us out of the recession, which only serves to make Obama that much more of an insignificant president. But unfortunately for you, the math still doesn't work in your favor. Pile that trillion onto Bush and you still have $7,000,000,000,000 added to the debt by a single man: Obama. And he isn't done yet. He will get to 8,000,000,000,00. Easy.

Don't worry, Obama will bust easily through $8 trillion before he's gone for good.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

It doesn't taste like crow at all. I love how you liberals want to give Obama credit for all the spending that helped save the world from the global recession but stick Bush with the tab. Have it your way. It was Bushs spending and budget that lifted us out of the recession, which only serves to make Obama that much more of an insignificant president. But unfortunately for you, the math still doesn't work in your favor. Pile that trillion onto Bush and you still have $7,000,000,000,000 added to the debt by a single man: Obama. And he isn't done yet. He will get to 8,000,000,000,00. Easy.

Rob would like you to forget that the almost $1 trillion Obama stimulus package, adopted by Congress in February 2009, a month after Obama took office and a few months before the recession was declared over, was credited on the books to the Bush final budget year.

Edit:

I also forgot to mention that the Bush TARP dollars, some $800 million approved in late 2008, has virtually all been repaid to the US treasury by the banks/financial institutions who received them, during Obama's terms, further skewing the deficit/debt numbers in Obama's favour.
 
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Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Once again, someone who thinks that tax cuts have no effect on the economy. These don't happen in a vacuum, they have an effect on the overall economy and it is a positive one, albeit a long term one. People ignore the long term effects of tax cuts only focus on one side of the equation CHOOSING to ignore the rest of the economic impact of cutting taxes. Now, I'll probably be accused of saying that I think that taxes should be eliminated altogether (that's what usually happens in these kind of discussions), and that's not what I or almost any other person who supports tax cuts believe. Our tax base should be wide and shallow instead of the narrow and tall model that tax increase supporters want to see. We need the money in the economy, creating jobs, increasing the number of taxpayers and driving tax revenue through having a lot of taxpayers, instead of taxing fewer taxpayers even more.

The rate at which an income earner in Ontario, Canada pays no federal income tax is about $11,000 and under and no provincial income tax is about $9,500 and under - all income above those amounts is taxable, allowing most income earners to be contributing members of society. They may, however, be qualified, depending on individual circumstances, for income supplements/tax credits.

I note this in contrast to what is widely reported as upwards of 50% of American taxpayers not paying any federal income taxes. In Canada, it's about one third who don't pay.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Rob would like you to forget that the almost $1 trillion Obama stimulus package, adopted by Congress in February 2009, a month after Obama took office and a few months before the recession was declared over, was credited on the books to the Bush final budget year.

Edit:

I also forgot to mention that the Bush TARP dollars, some $800 million approved in late 2008, has virtually all been repaid to the US treasury by the banks/financial institutions who received them, during Obama's terms, further skewing the deficit/debt numbers in Obama's favour.

It depends on what set of numbers we are going by.

Many conservatives will use the January 2009 to date numbers as Obama's in order to inflate his budget deficit (I've even seen a few go back to Jan of 2008, but that's either blatant dishonesty or "mis-remembering" who was in office in 2008). Other's have argued that since Bush never signed his last budget, he's not responsible for it.

And by the way, that $787 billion dollar spendulous didn't all go on the books in 2009, only something like 300 billion of it was spent that year, the rest was spent over several years, and it's my understanding that not all the money that was allocated for the spendulous programs was actually spent as many of the programs never really were feasible and some of the money which was supposed to go directly to the states was refused by the states.

Since the TARP money was a loan, it wasn't counted as an expenditure, so it didn't harm anyone's numbers.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

It depends on what set of numbers we are going by.

Many conservatives will use the January 2009 to date numbers as Obama's in order to inflate his budget deficit (I've even seen a few go back to Jan of 2008, but that's either blatant dishonesty or "mis-remembering" who was in office in 2008). Other's have argued that since Bush never signed his last budget, he's not responsible for it.

And by the way, that $787 billion dollar spendulous didn't all go on the books in 2009, only something like 300 billion of it was spent that year, the rest was spent over several years, and it's my understanding that not all the money that was allocated for the spendulous programs was actually spent as many of the programs never really were feasible and some of the money which was supposed to go directly to the states was refused by the states.

Since the TARP money was a loan, it wasn't counted as an expenditure, so it didn't harm anyone's numbers.
That is all true, but democrats like to credit Obama and his spending for ending the recession (which actually ended in June 2009, so he had nothing to do with it) but then heap the blame for that spending on Bush. They cant have it both ways. Plus, it was a democrat congress that wrote the spending bills for the 2009 budget. So you can blame Bush for a lot of things, but the deficit run up under Obama isn't one of them.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

That is all true, but democrats like to credit Obama and his spending for ending the recession (which actually ended in June 2009, so he had nothing to do with it) but then heap the blame for that spending on Bush. They cant have it both ways. Plus, it was a democrat congress that wrote the spending bills for the 2009 budget. So you can blame Bush for a lot of things, but the deficit run up under Obama isn't one of them.

When the recession ended a few months after the spendulous money started getting into the system, there is no way you can prove that the spendulous didn't contribute to at least shortening the recession. The truth is, we really don't know and will never know how much it helped.

And you have to admit that without the Great Bush Recession, Obama would have probably never been able to get the spendulous bill through congress, so it's not totally unfair to attribute that spending to him. Also, most of the reason that the 2008-209 deficits were so large was due to a decrease in tax revenue, which was also the result of the Great Bush Recession.

There is little difference between the way that many lefties like to "adjust" and explain away the numbers, and the way that righties do it.

By the way, I'm not particularly "in the bag" for Obama or against Bush. I didn't vote for him either time, but I did vote for Bush. I'm just trying to look at this issue in a non-partisan way and calling things the way I see them.
 
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Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

And yet the debt that Obama continues to let bigger daily goes unheard of in leftist circles, unless of course Bush is brought up, because as we all know, it's always his fault. This might be his as well. Who knows? Maybe the left?
If you are trying to suggest that Mr. Obama has been equally irresponsible, that's a massive fail.

usgs_line.php


The deficit has gotten smaller under Obama and as GDP continues to grow faster than the deficit grows, the debt becomes more and more irrelevant -- just like the massive $220 billion World War II debt did.

Remember, Obama did have the upper-income tax-cuts expire too.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

When the recession ended a few months after the spendulous money started getting into the system, there is no way you can prove that the spendulous didn't contribute to at least shortening the recession. The truth is, we really don't know and will never know how much it helped.

And you have to admit that without the Great Bush Recession, Obama would have probably never been able to get the spendulous bill through congress, so it's not totally unfair to attribute that spending to him. Also, most of the reason that the 2008-209 deficits were so large was due to a decrease in tax revenue, which was also the result of the Great Bush Recession.

There is little difference between the way that many lefties like to "adjust" and explain away the numbers, and the way that righties do it.

By the way, I'm not particularly "in the bag" for Obama or against Bush. I didn't vote for him either time, but I did vote for Bush. I'm just trying to look at this issue in a non-partisan way and calling things the way I see them.

To paraphrase your second to last post, I'd say that it is either blatant dishonesty or "mis-remembering" to call the financial crisis in 2008 the Great Bush Recession. Had Bush and his administration not warned against the housing bubble and attempted to rein in Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac as far back as 2006 and if Bush and his administration had not immediately and urgently pushed through the TARP in late 2008 you might have a point. One man, even a President, is not responsible for all the economies of the world, let alone America's.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

If you are trying to suggest that Mr. Obama has been equally irresponsible, that's a massive fail.

usgs_line.php


The deficit has gotten smaller under Obama and as GDP continues to grow faster than the deficit grows, the debt becomes more and more irrelevant -- just like the massive $220 billion World War II debt did.

Remember, Obama did have the upper-income tax-cuts expire too.

Actually, if you want to be fully honest about it, the reductions in deficits in America can be almost fully attributable to the implementation of the sequestration and the resistance of Congressional Republicans to bend to Obama and Congressional Democrats who called for the sequestration to be rescinded. That $trillion baby had value to the current deficit situation. Even your chart above notes that significant movement in the deficit picture didn't happen under Obama until after the sequestration took effect in early 2013.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Actually, if you want to be fully honest about it, the reductions in deficits in America can be almost fully attributable to the implementation of the sequestration and the resistance of Congressional Republicans to bend to Obama and Congressional Democrats who called for the sequestration to be rescinded. That $trillion baby had value to the current deficit situation. Even your chart above notes that significant movement in the deficit picture didn't happen under Obama until after the sequestration took effect in early 2013.
Yes, I know the conservative narrative that lower deficits are all about those fiscally conservative Republicans deficit peacocks who strut around and preen themselves on their supposed fiscal virtue. The problem is, it isn't true. In actuality, Mr. Obama submitted lower budgets and revenue is now higher. The deficit has been falling since the high in 2010 and as the economy improves, so does revenue.

The deficit is lower because we have $1 trillion a year more in revenue.

usgs_line.php
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

To paraphrase your second to last post, I'd say that it is either blatant dishonesty or "mis-remembering" to call the financial crisis in 2008 the Great Bush Recession. Had Bush and his administration not warned against the housing bubble and attempted to rein in Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac as far back as 2006 and if Bush and his administration had not immediately and urgently pushed through the TARP in late 2008 you might have a point. One man, even a President, is not responsible for all the economies of the world, let alone America's.
First, Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac had little to do with the Great Recession. Most of the overreach were by firms that weren't regulated and Fanny and Freddie were winding out of those loans when the others were getting deeper.

Second, the Bush Administration did nothing to reduce the likelihood of the crash. They were de-regulators. They also has control of the House, the Senate and the WH and if they wanted to do something, they could have.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Which doesn't seem relevant because they aren't anywhere near USPS prices!

i can see you know nothing of the post office or the laws concerning them...... packages and letters.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Once again, someone who thinks that tax cuts have no effect on the economy. These don't happen in a vacuum, they have an effect on the overall economy and it is a positive one, albeit a long term one. People ignore the long term effects of tax cuts only focus on one side of the equation CHOOSING to ignore the rest of the economic impact of cutting taxes. Now, I'll probably be accused of saying that I think that taxes should be eliminated altogether (that's what usually happens in these kind of discussions), and that's not what I or almost any other person who supports tax cuts believe. Our tax base should be wide and shallow instead of the narrow and tall model that tax increase supporters want to see. We need the money in the economy, creating jobs, increasing the number of taxpayers and driving tax revenue through having a lot of taxpayers, instead of taxing fewer taxpayers even more.

It depends on what taxes are being cut and how they are being cut.

Taxes on the worker/consumer class are harmful to demand. Taxes on the wealthy are harmful to investment. When we have a lack of available capital, then we should cut taxes on the rich. When we don't have enough demand to support business growth, then we should cut taxes on the worker/consumer class.

In our current situation, we have a lack of demand (although it is improving), thus cutting taxes of the non-rich would be very beneficial to our economy. It this particular point, cutting taxes on the rich would do next to nothing for improving our economy, and would only result in a higher budget deficit.

For that matter, since unlimited amounts of money for lending can be provided by the federal reserve, our economy is no longer constrained by the amount of pooled capital, thus there will never again be an economic need to cut taxes on the rich, and there is absolutely no economic need to tax the non-rich, not even for federal revenue purposes.
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

Yes, I know the conservative narrative that lower deficits are all about those fiscally conservative Republicans deficit peacocks who strut around and preen themselves on their supposed fiscal virtue. The problem is, it isn't true. In actuality, Mr. Obama submitted lower budgets and revenue is now higher. The deficit has been falling since the high in 2010 and as the economy improves, so does revenue.

The deficit is lower because we have $1 trillion a year more in revenue.

usgs_line.php

How convenient that your revenue chart above starts at 2009, a year into the 2008 financial crisis and the lowest levels of revenue during and after the Bush administration. You conveniently leave out the years directly following implementation of the Bush era tax cuts in which the US government enjoyed its highest levels of revenue ever experienced - higher than those you attribute to Obama.

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Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

faithful_servant said:
Once again, someone who thinks that tax cuts have no effect on the economy. These don't happen in a vacuum, they have an effect on the overall economy and it is a positive one, albeit a long term one. People ignore the long term effects of tax cuts only focus on one side of the equation CHOOSING to ignore the rest of the economic impact of cutting taxes. Now, I'll probably be accused of saying that I think that taxes should be eliminated altogether (that's what usually happens in these kind of discussions), and that's not what I or almost any other person who supports tax cuts believe. Our tax base should be wide and shallow instead of the narrow and tall model that tax increase supporters want to see. We need the money in the economy, creating jobs, increasing the number of taxpayers and driving tax revenue through having a lot of taxpayers, instead of taxing fewer taxpayers even more.
Your thesis is that tax-cuts are always good for the economy. If so, please explain why there has been large economic expansion after periods of tax increases and recessions after periods of tax-cuts. In fact, the greatest gains came when taxes were much higher than today. Those macro gains were also at a time when the middle class proportion of national income was greater. If you actually look at the data, instead of espousing ideology, you will see that there is no correlation between cutting taxes and economic expansion.

fredgraph.png
 
Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

How convenient that your revenue chart above starts at 2009, a year into the 2008 financial crisis and the lowest levels of revenue during and after the Bush administration. You conveniently leave out the years directly following implementation of the Bush era tax cuts in which the US government enjoyed its highest levels of revenue ever experienced - higher than those you attribute to Obama.

View attachment 67181041

I have written a great deal about this. I couldn't have found a better example of why it is important to adjust for inflation and population growth, both which tend to raise revenue regardless of tax policy. If one normalized for population growth and inflation, 2007 was about the same revenue as 2000. There is a burst in 2005 but economists attribute that to the housing bubble. Even with that, revenue didn't match 2000 revenue. Thus, we can conclude that reducing taxes in 2001 and 2003 did not increase government revenues although GDP did rise in each year. It's a zombie myth that lowering taxes pays for themselves and this proves it.

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Re: Scott Walker cut $541 million in taxes last year. Now his state will miss a $108

To paraphrase your second to last post, I'd say that it is either blatant dishonesty or "mis-remembering" to call the financial crisis in 2008 the Great Bush Recession. Had Bush and his administration not warned against the housing bubble and attempted to rein in Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac as far back as 2006 and if Bush and his administration had not immediately and urgently pushed through the TARP in late 2008 you might have a point. One man, even a President, is not responsible for all the economies of the world, let alone America's.

There is lot's of blame to go around, but I would have to say that Bush was asleep at the wheel. If he didn't know what was going on in our economy, he should have known and he should have taken steps to prevent it or to at least lessen it.

I certainly wouldn't call a recession that was 80% during the Bush years the "Obama Recession" or the "Reagan Recession".
 
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