• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

Russia has every right to use political and economic measures to protect Russia's sphere of influence.

Military invasions? They have no such right.

Ukraine aligning with the EU or even joining the EU, is not a military threat to Russia.

Obviously Moscow disagrees with you and will advance their interests with out concern for Western hypocritical protestations.
 
What source did I dismiss? RT? Yes because RT are proven liars, they are nothing but a state owned propaganda mill for the Kremlin if you disagree provide one single solitary RT article critical of Putin, I'll be waiting with baited breath.

This isn't rt.

“The more guilty one is in the perpetration of a dastardly crime,
the more likely they are to accuse innocent parties of the very
same atrocity.”

There is no better example of this on the various geo-political battlefields dotting Planet Earth than the recent color revolution in the Ukraine. A violent revolution which was directly overseen and coordinated by the US-EU espionage agencies. Their highly calculated and preplanned coup d’état orchestrated in Kiev is as transparent as the audiotape of foul language used by Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State, in her conversation with the US ambassador to the Ukraine.

Read more: The Ukraine Deception: US/EU-Directed Coup D'état Exposes Itself

Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev
By Steve Weissman, Reader Supported News
25 March 14

If the US State Department's Victoria Nuland had not said "**** the EU," few outsiders at the time would have heard of Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, the man on the other end of her famously bugged telephone call. But now Washington's man in Kiev is gaining fame as the face of the CIA-style "destabilization campaign" that brought down Ukraine's monumentally corrupt but legitimately elected President Viktor Yanukovych.

http://readersupportednews.org/opin...e-americans-who-put-together-the-coup-in-kiev

UA CONFLICTThe Winners and Losers from the US engineered Coup in Kiev V2.0 (self.russia)
submitted 3 months ago by Ian56

http://www.reddit.com/r/russia/comments/2mdbrg/the_winners_and_losers_from_the_us_engineered/
 
Last edited:
Simpleχity;1064314816 said:
I already posted their immediate response. Why do you ignore it?

Russia: No promises to release Ukraine pilot Savchenko


There is no "Western" side to the Geneva Conventions. Both Russia and Ukraine are signatories.

There is nothing ambiguous here. Lieutenant Savchenko was captured by enemy forces on the battlefield in military uniform. She is clearly a Prisoner of War (POW).


The Geneva Convention clearly says that all POW's must be released "without delay" following the cessation of active hostilities (15 February 2015). In addition, the Minsk II Agreement (signed by Russia) clearly says an "all for all" exchange.

Post 78
 
Obviously Moscow disagrees with you and will advance their interests with out concern for Western hypocritical protestations.

And this is why the Ruble has collapsed, they can't sell even ten percent of their bond offerings, they have a credit rating of "Junk", their politicians are advising them to eat less and use vegetable residue for makeup, and their economy is in deep recession.
 
The Russian-backed terrorists already violated the damn thing and it hasn't even been in effect 24 hours? Bloodthirsty bastards.

Let's be honest: these folks don't want peace, they want eastern Ukraine.
 
This isn't rt.

Then this is in no way even a try at arguing against my point, but for the record he is correct he didn't use RT to provide a single article from Russia criticizing Putin, and he didn't even try, instead he C/P nonsense from reddit, and two sites no one has ever even heard of, but let's entertain this line and see what else "storyleak" and "readsupportednews" has to say about current events shall we?

9/11: Russia Presents Evidence Against US, UK And Israel Co-Conspirators?

Uh oh someone better call the UN because the Kremlin has evidence.
 
Then this is in no way even a try at arguing against my point, but for the record he is correct he didn't use RT to provide a single article from Russia criticizing Putin, and he didn't even try, instead he C/P nonsense from reddit, and two sites no one has ever even heard of, but let's entertain this line and see what else "storyleak" and "readsupportednews" has to say about current events shall we?

9/11: Russia Presents Evidence Against US, UK And Israel Co-Conspirators?

Uh oh someone better call the UN because the Kremlin has evidence.

Check out your post, look for literacy, lol.
 
And this is why the Ruble has collapsed, they can't sell even ten percent of their bond offerings, they have a credit rating of "Junk", their politicians are advising them to eat less and use vegetable residue for makeup, and their economy is in deep recession.

Well then, just keep ****ing with Russia.
 
The Russian-backed terrorists already violated the damn thing and it hasn't even been in effect 24 hours? Bloodthirsty bastards.

I've been saying time and time again that Putins gameplan is ongoing war. Any peaceful and politically stable Ukraine would have the freedom to go its own way and make its own decisions about its future alliances be those miltary or economic and that cannot be allowed. These people had lived in peace together for 23 years until Putin decided they were getting a bit too keen on EU membership and therefore shouldn't any more :(
 
Last edited:
Not only are the rebels still shelling Debaltseve, but they are denying access to Debaltseve by journalists and the OSCE.

The OSCE was authorized by all parties of Minsk II to monitor the ceasefire, the weapon pullbacks, and the Ukraine/Russia border.

Ukraine rebels disavow ceasefire at encircled town

Reuters
Monday, February 16, 2015

Ukraine's rebels disavowed a new truce on Sunday hours after it took effect, saying it did not apply to the town where most fighting has taken place in recent weeks. In a four-way telephone conversation with the leaders of Germany, France and Russia's Vladimir Putin, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said the position of the four at peace talks last week in Belarus had been for a ceasefire on all the front lines including at Debaltseve. Poroshenko stressed that a withdrawal of military equipment and heavy weapons required a "full and unconditional" ceasefire under the Minsk agreement, his press service said.

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, responsible for monitoring the ceasefire, said rebels had denied its observers access to Debaltseve.

In addition, the rebels have shelled the village of Shyrokyne just east of the Ukrainian coastal city of Mariupol killing 5 and injuring 22.
 
Check out your post, look for literacy, lol.

I asked you to provide a single article from RT or any Russian based newspaper/media outlet critical of Putin, you didn't even attempt it, this is a joke at this point, you have no argument all you do is attempt to change the subject but while I was lambasting your lack of a coherent rebuttal to a simple point I also pointed out that your source is laughable.
 
I asked you to provide a single article from RT or any Russian based newspaper/media outlet critical of Putin, you didn't even attempt it, this is a joke at this point, you have no argument all you do is attempt to change the subject but while I was lambasting your lack of a coherent rebuttal to a simple point I also pointed out that your source is laughable.

That would be like asking for a FoxNews article critical of Bush. Have you seen the Moscow Times.
 
You make excellent points really, and nothing that in principle I disagree with. The problem boils down to the fact that when the US gets involved, you can have reasonable assurances that when the dust is settled, they'll leave the country to their own devices and don't try and bully them into falling into line. In fact, that's probably one of our greatest weaknesses that was demonstrated in Iraq for example. As much as people, probably like yourself, would love to argue that we did it "just for the oil" the moment we were able we hauled ass out of there. And incidentally, the majority of Iraqi oil goes to places like China than it does the US. With Russia however, they have a long track record of trying to impose their will on their neighbors that dates back to the Soviet Union. And as much as I'd love to say those times are long past, we know that's not the case from the way they went into Georgia, Annexed the Crimea and Sevastopol, and then continue to support and arm the rebels in Ukraine.

The US is going to make mistakes from time to time, but I'd argue to the end of the time that at least when we go in, we're doing it for not just our interests, but of everyone involved, including the enemy. I can't say the same for the Ex-KGB running the Kremlin, and I do believe history backs me up.

If you believe that we do things for the interests of all involved, including the enemy then there is nothing that I can say.
 
According to every freedom index on the planet the US has a free press; whereas, Russia does not.

There is some freedom of the press in Russia, there is some here in the U.S.
 
That would be like asking for a FoxNews article critical of Bush. Have you seen the Moscow Times.

Moscow Times is a foreign owned English language newspaper with a circulation of only 35,000 because it is not available at news stands but only in places frequented by western Ex-Pats. But you are correct in that asking for a Russian publication or media outlet critical of Putin is not going to be easy, because the media in Russia is not free unlike in the US where you had two other 24/7 media outlets critical of the Bush Administration not to mention countless print media sources, with regards to Obama you have a 24/7 media outlet several conservative publications as well as countless numbers of talk radio stations. And again I'll reiterate my point that RT is broadcast in the US; whereas, foreign owned companies are prohibited from broadcast media in the Russian Federation.
 
Moscow Times is a foreign owned English language newspaper with a circulation of only 35,000 because it is not available at news stands but only in places frequented by western Ex-Pats. But you are correct in that asking for a Russian publication or media outlet critical of Putin is not going to be easy, because the media in Russia is not free unlike in the US where you had two other 24/7 media outlets critical of the Bush Administration not to mention countless print media sources, with regards to Obama you have a 24/7 media outlet several conservative publications as well as countless numbers of talk radio stations. And again I'll reiterate my point that RT is broadcast in the US; whereas, foreign owned companies are prohibited from broadcast media in the Russian Federation.

Right, and your ignoring the fact that Putin could shut that paper down. And hasn't.
 
Right, and your ignoring the fact that Putin could shut that paper down. And hasn't.
Why shut it down? It has a daily (Mon-Fri) circulation of 35,000.

Lol. Exactly the same daily circulation as the Town Prairie Leader newspaper of rural Todd County in Minnesota...

MN_21492.gif
 
Not according to every press freedom index on the planet.

In reality there is open criticism of Putin in the press in Russia. As such I don't agree with this conclusion. Of course it is constrained and while I don't know for sure, my guess it is more constrained than the U.S. That said Russia does not spend the kind of money in the U.S. that the U.S. spends in Russia on critics of the government.
 
If you believe that we do things for the interests of all involved, including the enemy then there is nothing that I can say.

You think I couldn't back up that view? You need look no further than the strict rules of engagement that have been placed on US military personnel when in the Middle East. For instance, we all know that our troops are prohibited from attacking/destroying mosques, even when we know damn well that attacks are being organized in there. Hell, ISIS doesn't even give that consideration as has been demonstrate by them destroying multiple religions sites.
 
Unlike with Russia though dissenting reporters in the US don't get 'disappeared' when they criticise the state.

Journalistic death toll in Putin's Russia | Media | The Guardian

This is of interest

FBI records show that COINTELPRO resources targeted groups and individuals that the FBI deemed "subversive", including
...
organizations and individuals associated with the Civil Rights Movement, including Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and others associated with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Congress of Racial Equality and other civil rights organizations
...
FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover issued directives governing COINTELPRO, ordering FBI agents to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, neutralize or otherwise eliminate" the activities of these movements and their leaders.

COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a limit.
 
Back
Top Bottom