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School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent [W:78]

Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
Please explain why you think this is common core. Then please demonstrate you have even a modicum of understanding of what common core even is.



But this quiz seems to be pretty clear it's referring to a preferred sense of governing, and Republicans prefer their government not to spend money on those they feel don't deserve it, which is usually poor people. And I'm not even passing judgment on the rightness or wrongness of such a position (I tend to think there's a lot of people who do deserve help and plenty who don't), but it IS a Republican/conservative position (at least for the last several years especially) that government should cut the amount of money it spends helping those who are poor.

And not all communists think people who are not equal should die. But the point remains that, as a general rule, politicians within the Republican party think we waste too much money helping those who don't have money.

This isn't really even a debate. If I felt like it, I'm sure I can find plenty of instances of Republicans whining about SSDI, Obamaphones, subsidies for ACA, etc. The idea Republicans don't generally complain about government spending on the poor is just really not worth entertaining.

I agree 100%. But what I find more disconcerting is the idea this was presented to a class of 16 year olds...if this quiz is legitimate (and I always have my doubts, given how often these things turn out to be bogus), then the real disservice is such an oversimplification to a class of students who should have the mental maturity to process much deeper thoughts.

Whether we agree on this or not is irrelevant. Republicans SAY it. It's a position they keep.
But irrelevant. These are they types of things Republicans SAY. They make this a position.

I'm sorry, all I heard was "blah blah blah, I'm incapable of disproving the point, so I'm going to continue to engage in red herrings".

Whether Democrats believe in such a policy for immigrants or not is irrelevant, as they never CLAIM such a position. Republicans do claim the position that our government wastes money on helping the poor.
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Irrelevant?

Even going by your insanity, doing something, as Democrats have, is far more harmful than talking about it. You sunk your own boat on that salvo Sly. :lamo
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Well... don't you? It certainly sounds like you think that. The things conservatives say and do give the impression that you think that.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
But this quiz seems to be pretty clear it's referring to a preferred sense of governing
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I disagree.

The "Right to read anything you want" isn't really talking about sense of governing. The comment about morality isn't seemingly presented in a way focused on governing. AND, if it was focused on governing, there would be no reasonto highlight that we should provide "government-run" daycares as opposed to simply say "provide daycare". The fact it's making a distinction in one of these things suggests that the quiz is showing a difference between general wide ranging thought, and specific government programs.

that government should cut the amount of money it spends helping those who are poor.
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There is a drastic different between a "cut" to the amount of moeny it spends on helping those who are poor and a flat out statement of not helping. A cut suggests spending less on a particular effort...that is different than simply NOT making that effort at all.

And not all communists think people who are not equal should die.
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I agree. The "Anyone who's not equal must die" portion of the thing is rather ridiculous, but isn't really the focus of the thread AND on the scale of relevance to the education of children, a fair and accurate representation of Democrats/Republicans is significantly more important in my view than that of a "fascist" or "communist" since the reality is those (along with moderate) are the two that are primarily going to be impacting their lives.

But the point remains that, as a general rule, politicians within the Republican party think we waste too much money helping those who don't have money.
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Which again, is an ENTIRELY different suggestion than "we should not help the poor". Stating "We spend too much money helping the poor, and it's a waste" is an entirely different notion than "We should not help the poor, it's a waste".

And if you want to go with that simplistic notion, from that mindset, it'd probably be best as "We waste too much money trying to help the poor survive instead of trying to help them to stop being poor."

This isn't really even a debate. If I felt like it, I'm sure I can find plenty of instances of Republicans whining about SSDI, Obamaphones, subsidies for ACA, etc. The idea Republicans don't generally complain about government spending on the poor is just really not worth entertaining.
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Cool, you go right ahead with not entertaining the strawman of your own creation. I really have no care about whether or not you entertain your own imaginary points.

My point wasn't that Republicans in general want less social safety net programs for the poor than Democrats (something I absolutely agree with), my point was that Republicans in general do not want zero help for the poor (even if we're just talking about help from the government). None of those things you mentioned go against my point.

(and I always have my doubts, given how often these things turn out to be bogus)
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In the age of Photoshop I agree 100% here.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Ockham said:
No no...you missed my point. Democrats JUST DO it
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No no, YOU missed the point.

The point is that Republicans DO take this position verbally. The question, though not really proper, is valid in the sense it is what Republicans publicly say. You BELIEVE Democrats hold such a position, but Democrats do not publicly claim a position.

Let's put it another way. If one of the questions was "People should not own a gun which is not on file with the government", then it would be something Democrats have said. Then THAT would be a valid quiz statement. But Democrats do NOT publicly claim what you believe they do, so it wouldn't be a valid quiz statement.

Make sense?
 
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Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

There is not one thing on that test that is not stupid beyond all belief.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
Republican position is it's a waste of taxpayer money to continue to fund those who are poor.
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Ah, is that so. So you should be able to present some kind of official plank of the GOP declaring that they against any social safety net programs aimed at the poor...you know, since you claim this is a "republican position". Yes?
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Looks like something my senior year government teacher would have done, if he had thought of it. He was an open and unabashed vocal Reagan-hater, and staunch liberal.

This was in 1982, btw.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Peter Grimm said:
If I'm a principal, that teacher is fired.
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Which would just be you as the principal reactionarily covering your ass if this was a case of the teacher simply using the lesson plan and material that is provided them by the school system to teach. Which it may very well be.

There's a lot of questions relating to this story...and even it's legitimacy...at this point. Stating absolutes like this just seem foolish to me.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
Please explain why you think this is common core. Then please demonstrate you have even a modicum of understanding of what common core even is.



But this quiz seems to be pretty clear it's referring to a preferred sense of governing, and Republicans prefer their government not to spend money on those they feel don't deserve it, which is usually poor people. And I'm not even passing judgment on the rightness or wrongness of such a position (I tend to think there's a lot of people who do deserve help and plenty who don't), but it IS a Republican/conservative position (at least for the last several years especially) that government should cut the amount of money it spends helping those who are poor.

And not all communists think people who are not equal should die. But the point remains that, as a general rule, politicians within the Republican party think we waste too much money helping those who don't have money.

This isn't really even a debate. If I felt like it, I'm sure I can find plenty of instances of Republicans whining about SSDI, Obamaphones, subsidies for ACA, etc. The idea Republicans don't generally complain about government spending on the poor is just really not worth entertaining.

I agree 100%. But what I find more disconcerting is the idea this was presented to a class of 16 year olds...if this quiz is legitimate (and I always have my doubts, given how often these things turn out to be bogus), then the real disservice is such an oversimplification to a class of students who should have the mental maturity to process much deeper thoughts.

Whether we agree on this or not is irrelevant. Republicans SAY it. It's a position they keep.
But irrelevant. These are they types of things Republicans SAY. They make this a position.

I'm sorry, all I heard was "blah blah blah, I'm incapable of disproving the point, so I'm going to continue to engage in red herrings".

Whether Democrats believe in such a policy for immigrants or not is irrelevant, as they never CLAIM such a position. Republicans do claim the position that our government wastes money on helping the poor.
Click to expand...

Are you a shill for this school or something? Is there anything negative attributed to the GOP that you wouldn't defend had it been on the test. I'm guessing not.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Zyphlin said:
Which would just be you as the principal reactionarily covering your ass if this was a case of the teacher simply using the lesson plan and material that is provided them by the school system to teach. Which it may very well be.

There's a lot of questions relating to this story...and even it's legitimacy...at this point. Stating absolutes like this just seem foolish to me.
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Fair enough. I took the OP at face value, if the whole thing is a hoax then it is what it is. The test, as it is, is unacceptable.... so either it's the teacher or whoever wrote it, someone needs to be held accountable.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

I think it's karma coming around to bite people. Those teachers are now micromanaged so some admin. saying they didn't know about it his would get his arse in trouble. They recently had a mass exodus of veteran teachers. Churn and burn won't work in education.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

ocean515 said:
Irrelevant?
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Yes, irrelevant. The concept of the quiz was to take positions held by the political party/lean and decide which statements go with what the party says. Since the Democratic party has never publicly claimed the position you claim they act out, your comment is irrelevant.
Even going by your insanity, doing something, as Democrats have, is far more harmful than talking about it.
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We're not talking about what's harmful, we're talking about what belongs on this quiz.

Do you think you might pay attention to what we're discussing?
You sunk your own boat on that salvo Sly. :lamo
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You're not even talking about the right thing. Get back to me when you understand what's going on.
Zyphlin said:
I disagree.

The "Right to read anything you want" isn't really talking about sense of governing.
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Umm, it's basically cut and dry 1st Amendment. It's a statement about government not restricting the information you have access to. It very much is a comment about governing.

The comment about morality isn't seemingly presented in a way focused on governing.
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This I'll agree with. However, we both know American governmental history is full of laws passed on the very concept of morality. So while the statement isn't really focused on governing, it IS a statement relating to how government should pass laws.

AND, if it was focused on governing, there would be no reasonto highlight that we should provide "government-run" daycares as opposed to simply say "provide daycare".
Click to expand...
Except the government took the money in taxes, so government run daycares is necessary. In other words, to support government run daycares, the government needs to collect more taxes.

This quiz is very much related to philosophies of governing.

There is a drastic different between a "cut" to the amount of moeny it spends on helping those who are poor and a flat out statement of not helping.
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Agree. And I'm not saying the quiz question is a good one, but I AM saying it's valid. And there's a difference between being good and being valid.

But at the end of the day, Republicans are routinely saying government is wasting taxpayer money by helping those who are on welfare. This isn't really something which can be denied, I don't believe.

I agree. The "Anyone who's not equal must die" portion of the thing is rather ridiculous, but isn't really the focus of the thread
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But it does go to show the examples on the quiz were being made to be clear enough to differentiate between the different philosophies. So, much like the communist statement, the first statement is meant to be clear as to who is more likely to believe such a position.

Which again, is an ENTIRELY different suggestion than "we should not help the poor". Stating "We spend too much money helping the poor, and it's a waste" is an entirely different notion than "We should not help the poor, it's a waste".

And if you want to go with that simplistic notion, from that mindset, it'd probably be best as "We waste too much money trying to help the poor survive instead of trying to help them to stop being poor."
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To be clear, I do not think this is a good quiz. I think the person putting it together did not do a good job at all. But the point I'm making is that if you put the statement, "we should not help the poor, it's a waste of money" to 100 Americans, an overwhelming majority of Americans will attribute such a statement to the Republican party. And there's a reason for that.

If Republicans do not appreciate the idea this is what people think of them, then perhaps they ought to reflect on WHY this is the view of them.

Cool, you go right ahead with not entertaining the strawman of your own creation.
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There's no strawman here. I can point to several examples of where the statement on the quiz has been played out in real life in the Republican party.

I'm not sure why you think the truth is a strawman.

In the age of Photoshop I agree 100% here.
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We agree on this. But you wouldn't even need photoshop for this, I could make this type of quiz in MS Word in 5-10 minutes.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
Please explain why you think this is common core. Then please demonstrate you have even a modicum of understanding of what common core even is.



But this quiz seems to be pretty clear it's referring to a preferred sense of governing, and Republicans prefer their government not to spend money on those they feel don't deserve it, which is usually poor people. And I'm not even passing judgment on the rightness or wrongness of such a position (I tend to think there's a lot of people who do deserve help and plenty who don't), but it IS a Republican/conservative position (at least for the last several years especially) that government should cut the amount of money it spends helping those who are poor.

And not all communists think people who are not equal should die. But the point remains that, as a general rule, politicians within the Republican party think we waste too much money helping those who don't have money.

This isn't really even a debate. If I felt like it, I'm sure I can find plenty of instances of Republicans whining about SSDI, Obamaphones, subsidies for ACA, etc. The idea Republicans don't generally complain about government spending on the poor is just really not worth entertaining.

I agree 100%. But what I find more disconcerting is the idea this was presented to a class of 16 year olds...if this quiz is legitimate (and I always have my doubts, given how often these things turn out to be bogus), then the real disservice is such an oversimplification to a class of students who should have the mental maturity to process much deeper thoughts.

Whether we agree on this or not is irrelevant. Republicans SAY it. It's a position they keep.
But irrelevant. These are they types of things Republicans SAY. They make this a position.

I'm sorry, all I heard was "blah blah blah, I'm incapable of disproving the point, so I'm going to continue to engage in red herrings".

Whether Democrats believe in such a policy for immigrants or not is irrelevant, as they never CLAIM such a position. Republicans do claim the position that our government wastes money on helping the poor.
Click to expand...

One you are being disingenuous in offering that this is a simple quiz about preference of government..it's an out and out push poll. It id driving the respondent not following and any first year statistics student would see that.

Second there are degrees of magnitude difference between "helping" and "pandering" The "instances of Republicans whining" are buffoonery "Obamaphones" were out and out vote buying where he spent the most in areas where he was weakest...funny how the appologists leave that out and lie about the cause of the criticism.

Third, Obamacare is hardly simple "help" It was a lie constructed of "tortured language" to deliberately confuse the GBO and the Supreme court passed without reading and an amdned sub rosa 22 times by a president without even input from the lawmakers. It is NOT simple help to the the poor, but a massive social overhaul and income distribution system that by 2020 will still mean 50 million Americans will have no coverage...more than the entire population of Canada and New Zealand combined.


So lets in future try to be what Obama has not been and that's remotely honest.

And if this isn't worthy of debate why do you post?
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Erod said:
School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent claims | Fox News


WisconsinTest.jpg


Nothing sinister or unhealthy about subjecting your kids to today's indoctrinations at the old schoolhouse, I'm sure.
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This smells to high heaven of internet rumor.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Zyphlin said:
Ah, is that so. So you should be able to present some kind of official plank of the GOP declaring that they against any social safety net programs aimed at the poor...you know, since you claim this is a "republican position". Yes?
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I've already directed you to numerous examples of where Republicans do not support taxpayer money going to those who are poor. SSDI, "Obamaphones", subsidies for ACA, etc.
X Factor said:
Are you a shill for this school or something?
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Yes, I'm a shill for the school. That's why I signed up on the forums nearly two years ago, because I knew (two years in advance, mind you) this situation was going to happen. :roll:

By the way, if it feels like I'm mocking your comment, well...
Is there anything negative attributed to the GOP that you wouldn't defend had it been on the test. I'm guessing not.
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Sure, there's plenty. Want some examples?

"We think everyone should have a gun so you can shoot anyone who steps on your property"
"We need to tax poor people because we don't want to tax rich corporations"
"We are against abortion because we think women should not have control of their own bodies".


I could go all day long. None of those statements would be valid for this quiz, even if they have long been accusations against the Republican party. Are you done playing partisan games now?
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Fearandloathing said:
One you are being disingenuous in offering that this is a simple quiz about preference of government.
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Umm, even the mom who submitted this quiz to some media site said that's what it is about.

.it's an out and out push poll.
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No, it's an assignment in government class, one whose legitimacy is wanting. Please actually read the article if you wish to discuss this. Thanks.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
If Republicans do not appreciate the idea this is what people think of them, then perhaps they ought to reflect on WHY this is the view of them.
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Right, must be all our doing (some is, to be sure). Certainly our beliefs are never simplified and mischaracterized as you've done repeatedly. Of course, the first time anyone makes uncomfortable generalizations about Democrats and it's the end of the world.

It's easiest thing in the world to be a liberal, isn't it? You can advocate free flying ponies for everyone without ever considering if it actually does any good or is even possible.
 
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Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Dittohead not! said:
This smells to high heaven of internet rumor.
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Quoted for emphasis.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
Ignoring for a moment one quiz in one teacher's class would never be an overall reflection of the school as a whole...is that not what Republicans are constantly saying? Oh sure, they don't use such plain terms, but are they not the ones who keep saying the government shouldn't support the poor, they need to get out and get a job and support themselves? Aren't they the ones saying the government shouldn't help the poor, it should be left up to charities?

I guess I don't understand the furor here when it's basically what Republicans have been saying for years.
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Raging liberal false truism that only fools accept.

Opposing endlessly more money to "the poor" - regardless of why the person is poor and whether the person is capable of working but doesn't - does not in the slightest equate to opposing helping the poor.

Yes, government is your bottomless supply of money to give to everyone and that only your perfectly omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent government can help anyone.

It is a lie to claim Republicans oppose helping the poor.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

JasperL said:
Illegal aliens are encouraged by the Jobs Creators - cheap, disposable labor is good for bidness.

It's hilarious that immigration has become this hot button issue during a roughly 6 year net DECLINE in the number of illegals in this country. You'd think we were in the middle of the Bush administration or something.... :roll:
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What an absurd statement in response to my post.

Do you deny Liberal/Progressives are encouraging illegal aliens to come here, and are providing safe harbor? The only reason the numbers have declined is because of the anemic recovery caused by the Presidents and Congresses inept efforts.
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
Umm, even the mom who submitted this quiz to some media site said that's what it is about.

No, it's an assignment in government class, one whose legitimacy is wanting. Please actually read the article if you wish to discuss this. Thanks.
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I don't care what you or the person who submitted SAID. Uniformed opinions are like ass holes everyone has one and they mostly stink.

You compound an arrogant and superior post with a second one even more disingenuous.

Do you even know what constitutes a push poll?
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
I've already directed you to numerous examples of where Republicans do not support taxpayer money going to those who are poor. SSDI, "Obamaphones", subsidies for ACA, etc.
Yes, I'm a shill for the school. That's why I signed up on the forums nearly two years ago, because I knew (two years in advance, mind you) this situation was going to happen. :roll:

By the way, if it feels like I'm mocking your comment, well...
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It's all good. It wasn't a serious suggestion anyway. I was just thinking up Internet quiz and my question to myself was, "Of all those posting in this thread, who would most likely be a shill for the use of this worksheet". Can I help it how you're perceived?
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

Slyfox696 said:
Yes, irrelevant. The concept of the quiz was to take positions held by the political party/lean and decide which statements go with what the party says. Since the Democratic party has never publicly claimed the position you claim they act out, your comment is irrelevant.
We're not talking about what's harmful, we're talking about what belongs on this quiz.

Do you think you might pay attention to what we're discussing?
You're not even talking about the right thing. Get back to me when you understand what's going on.
Umm, it's basically cut and dry 1st Amendment. It's a statement about government not restricting the information you have access to. It very much is a comment about governing.

This I'll agree with. However, we both know American governmental history is full of laws passed on the very concept of morality. So while the statement isn't really focused on governing, it IS a statement relating to how government should pass laws.

Except the government took the money in taxes, so government run daycares is necessary. In other words, to support government run daycares, the government needs to collect more taxes.

This quiz is very much related to philosophies of governing.

Agree. And I'm not saying the quiz question is a good one, but I AM saying it's valid. And there's a difference between being good and being valid.

But at the end of the day, Republicans are routinely saying government is wasting taxpayer money by helping those who are on welfare. This isn't really something which can be denied, I don't believe.

But it does go to show the examples on the quiz were being made to be clear enough to differentiate between the different philosophies. So, much like the communist statement, the first statement is meant to be clear as to who is more likely to believe such a position.


To be clear, I do not think this is a good quiz. I think the person putting it together did not do a good job at all. But the point I'm making is that if you put the statement, "we should not help the poor, it's a waste of money" to 100 Americans, an overwhelming majority of Americans will attribute such a statement to the Republican party. And there's a reason for that.

If Republicans do not appreciate the idea this is what people think of them, then perhaps they ought to reflect on WHY this is the view of them.

There's no strawman here. I can point to several examples of where the statement on the quiz has been played out in real life in the Republican party.

I'm not sure why you think the truth is a strawman.

We agree on this. But you wouldn't even need photoshop for this, I could make this type of quiz in MS Word in 5-10 minutes.
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Shoot me. :doh
 
Re: School worksheet tells kids GOP thinks helping poor 'waste of money,' parent clai

shrubnose said:
Maybe that teacher was doing exactly what he/she was told to do. Would you fire someone for that? :roll:
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That's what the Nazis said, too.
 
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