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Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Hard Truth said:
All adults have a right to be free and treated as equals. Governments don't decide who has rights, they determine who has rights under the law. Blacks and women in the USA did not have their rights recognized by the USA's government, but they always had rights.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
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That took a Civil War and more, Civil Rights Act for one, school busing, another, a long list, before becoming applicable. And today it is still not self evident.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Taylor said:
It's good that there are so many brilliant posters in this thread to set me straight.
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any time
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

chromium said:
any time
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Good to know, because I was kind of wondering, if the the concept of equality with respect to state-recognition of marriage "doesnt begin and end at national and state borders," where does this occur? The middle of the Pacific Ocean? The Moon?

Absent a state, why is there a natural right to have your marriage recognized by a state?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Taylor said:
Good thing then that it wasn't intended as "a reason to ban same-sex marriage."

Why do you want to ban same-sex marriage?
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I know it wasn't intended that way. I said as much. You don't actually have any arguments on any subject. You should now have proper clarification of my perception of your "contribution" to this thread.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Deuce said:
You don't actually have any arguments on any subject. You should now have proper clarification of my perception of your "contribution" to this thread.
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Well I would have hoped that you'd learned something, but by all means, go back to telling us about how Moore is going to be removed and disbarred for his (completely legal) actions, how the Supreme court in denying a stay says that same-sex licenses must be issued in Alabama, how anyone refusing to issue same-sex licenses is breaking the law and is in contempt of court, and how the judges decision "overturns" state law and is binding statewide.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

beefheart said:
Moore got the SMACK handed to him.

It all boils down to him wanting to be a judge that follows "god's law" over the laws of the nation and the state.

He should be tossed out on his ear...again.
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Yes thats pretty much it, i shudder at the idea that a person in his position ranks his subjective views about gods laws over the laws he is supposed to protect/enforce.

In his personal life of course . . . while he has that robe on? absolute not, he is an idiot and a moron and i hope he is removed
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

clownboy said:
It really doesn't. Not if you understand the purpose and intent of the 14th.
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It really it does, all one has to do is read it and simply reference all the court cases/precedence that say so. Especially since there were bannings, the 14th is directly about equal protections and law and thats what the bannings were and thats way the state got corrected, they overreached thier power. This is very basic stuff. Denying it is a dishonest strawman tactic that is losing all over the country.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
Its so funny how he references Loving and how that was them being allowed to have their guaranteed right to pursuit of happiness, the same thing that homosexuals are looking for when looking to marry someone as the same sex.
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Yep talk about putting egg on his own face . . . wow
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
I showed you the stats from the CDC. You may deny all you want, but you are wrong. Way more than "zero" people who are not gay and don't use drugs contract HIV in the US, the majority contracting it from heterosexual sexual contact.
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sometimes facts will simply be ignored, doesnt matter though, what you stated is still a fact regardless of detractors and deniers
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

clownboy said:
No, it was aimed specifically at the racial problems we were experiencing at the time. And it doesn't matter one whit how many years have passed, original intent counts just as much with amendments as it does with the Constitution itself or ANY law for that matter.
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racial issues were one of the reasons it was birthed, that in no way means it only applies to racial issues LMAO thats the one of the most illogical and mentally inane "claims" i have ever heard

its original intent was EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW that fact can't be hidden. its verbiage starts out as ALL PERSONS Nobody educated and honest will ever by that all persons means "just race problems" and that "any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." means only certain laws and only certain people/issues. good grief lol

Fact remains your claims are wrong and the actually verbiage of the 14th along with the many court cases simply proves this fact.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
Obviously it doesn't, or we wouldn't have had many of the unjust and unfair laws overturned throughout the years. Guess what? Most people are quite fine with that fact so long as it is laws they consider unjust or unfair. The only time people whine about it is when the laws are something they support.
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and there you have it, it only means something different when people dont like certain people being protected by it
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

clownboy said:
The expansion of that principle can happen in only one way, amendment to the Constitution. NOT by judicial fiat. Otherwise, it's a retraction of that principle and expression of federal power over the will of the people.
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Well good thing your strawman doesn't exist then . . its not being "expanded it simply being followed

the constitution is the will of the people and the fed are protecting it, again many court cases already prove this fact, what do you have that proves otherwise?
What facts do you have that trumps the constitution, rights, laws and court precedence that all prove your claims wrong?
 
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Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

clownboy said:
That we have suffered from a judicial rewrite of the Constitution and judicial misconduct now used as precedent does not mean I am wrong. It is simply a measure of how much liberty we're willing to sacrifice before we stand up and say enough.
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lol WOW
this is GAINING liberty

the alternative is losing liberty and having fellow americans still be denied rights

equal rights winning is actual the measure of how long we accept liberty and rights being oppressed before we change it.

Everything about your claims is backwards and again the constitution, rights ,laws and court cases all prove that. Thank god are government doesnt work like you want it because we'd all lose freedom and rights.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Taylor said:
Good to know, because I was kind of wondering, if the the concept of equality with respect to state-recognition of marriage "doesnt begin and end at national and state borders," where does this occur? The middle of the Pacific Ocean? The Moon?

Absent a state, why is there a natural right to have your marriage recognized by a state?
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Equality as a principle isn't limited to one policy like marriage either. You just don't get it

It's the insistence that we are not a 2nd class and not inferior. Anything contrary to that, whether in uganda, whether marriage rights or hate speech, we will oppose thru various means
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Taylor said:
Well I would have hoped that you'd learned something, but by all means, go back to telling us about how Moore is going to be removed and disbarred for his (completely legal) actions, how the Supreme court in denying a stay says that same-sex licenses must be issued in Alabama, how anyone refusing to issue same-sex licenses is breaking the law and is in contempt of court, and how the judges decision "overturns" state law and is binding statewide.
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Why bother, when you're doing it for us? I'm glad you're in agreement!
 
From NYT:

"In a relatively straightforward order, Judge Granade restated her finding that the state’s ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional and concluded that if the couples before her “take all steps that are required in the normal course of business as a prerequisite to issuing a marriage license to opposite-sex couples, Judge Davis may not deny them a license on the ground that plaintiffs constitute same-sex couples.”

Lawyers for the plaintiffs said they would not hesitate to bring legal action in other counties if probate judges continued to deny licenses to same-sex couples"


So much for moore's vaunted legal explanation that federal court rulings are not binding on state courts
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

chromium said:
Bigots would destroy the lives and have been destroying the lives of LGBT for millenia. I will shed no tears for them when fined for violating equal protection laws.

btw, if you never had a job with duties and customers you disliked you are definitely in the minority
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No, I have never had a job I disliked, but then again, I am not an angry, self righteous control freak.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Taylor said:
Well I would have hoped that you'd learned something, but by all means, go back to telling us about how Moore is going to be removed and disbarred for his (completely legal) actions, how the Supreme court in denying a stay says that same-sex licenses must be issued in Alabama, how anyone refusing to issue same-sex licenses is breaking the law and is in contempt of court, and how the judges decision "overturns" state law and is binding statewide.
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ruh roh: Chief Alabama judge would defy Supreme Court in gay marriage ruling - CNN.com

"Washington (CNN)The chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court insisted Thursday he will continue to resist efforts to implement same-sex marriage in his state, even if the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of same-sex marriage later this year.

Chief Justice Roy Moore likened an eventual U.S. Supreme Court ruling in favor of same-sex marriage to the Dred Scott ruling and Plessy v. Ferguson, two 19th century Supreme Court rulings that upheld slavery and segregation, respectively.

"If it's an unlawful mandate you can refuse to mandate it. You can dissent to the United States Supreme Court," Moore said in a testy interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo on "New Day." "I will follow the law as I interpret it."


Are you still going to defend this psycho? REALLY, marriage equality is akin to Dred Scott and he has the authority to defy supreme court rulings? Consider he's a ****ing judge, this sounds like treason to me
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/us/alabama-same-sex-marriage-ruling.html?_r=0
U.S. Orders Alabama to License Gay Unions

MOBILE, Ala. — A federal judge here ruled on Thursday that the local probate judge cannot refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, potentially adding some clarity to a judicial quarrel that has roiled Alabama for most of a week.The order by Judge Callie V. S. Granade of Federal District Court came after a brief hearing and prompted cheers and crying in the halls of the probate court here, where several couples obtained licenses and were married before the license office closed. While Judge Granade had declared Alabama’s ban on same-sex marriage unconstitutional on Jan. 23, the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Roy S. Moore, insisted in his own order Sunday night that Judge Granade’s ruling did not apply to the state’s probate judges and directed them not to comply.

The ruling on Thursday was the first in this case with a probate judge as a defendant — Judge Don Davis of Mobile County — and was seen by lawyers for the gay couples who brought the case as a clear signal to probate judges around the state what their duties were. In a relatively straightforward order, Judge Granade restated her finding that the state’s ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional and concluded that if the couples before her “take all steps that are required in the normal course of business as a prerequisite to issuing a marriage license to opposite-sex couples, Judge Davis may not deny them a license on the ground that plaintiffs constitute same-sex couples.”
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I love it!
The bigots just keep HELPING equal rights, they can't help themselves
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

clownboy said:
You're not paying attention. The 14th wasn't applied to women until the 19th gave them equal constitutional footing.
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Which is pretty much what I said earlier. That they had to be made equal citizens which was done by the 19th giving them the right to vote. I said this the first time someone in this thread replied to me with "what about women" or "what about the 19th".

There is however nothing in the 19th which actually states that through its enactment, women are now given equal constitutional footing or specifically the right to equal protection from the 14th. This is only interpreted, even by those who claim strict adherence to the Constitution under the original intent of each Amendment.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

chromium said:
Are you still going to defend this psycho? REALLY, marriage equality is akin to Dred Scott and he has the authority to defy supreme court rulings? Consider he's a ****ing judge, this sounds like treason to me
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I will continue to explain the law and correcting misconceptions as I see them; whether or not you see that as "defending" anyone is entirely up to you.
 
chromium said:
So much for moore's vaunted legal explanation that federal court rulings are not binding on state courts
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What does an order forcing a single judge working in an executive role in issuing a marriage license to a single couple have to do with showing that "federal court rulings are not binding on state courts?"
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

chromium said:
Equality as a principle isn't limited to one policy like marriage either. You just don't get it

It's the insistence that we are not a 2nd class and not inferior. Anything contrary to that, whether in uganda, whether marriage rights or hate speech, we will oppose thru various means
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I wasn't asking about equality as a principle, I asked specifically about the issue at hand, state recognition of marriage.
 
Taylor said:
What does an order forcing a single judge working in an executive role in issuing a marriage license to a single couple have to do with showing that "federal court rulings are not binding on state courts?"
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Federal court told state court what to do. For now, one judge. Other judges will be sued and told the same thing if they continue not to issue licenses.
 
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