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Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

What ever happened to state's rights?

Since when did marriage become a federal priority?



When some states started denying some people equal rights.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."
~ Robert Green Ingersoll
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Since when did the federal government need to get involved in whether prisoners have the "right" to marry?

We are so far removed from what the founders of this nation had in mind in terms of how our government is structured, it's ridiculous.
I don't want the federal government involved with social issues.



What you want and what we're going to get in the USA are 2 vastly different things.

Wait and see. :roll:
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

since cases like Loving in the 1960s

And the cases where prisoners got the right to marry as part of their constitutional rights

States can control things like how the prisoner ceremony happens, but even Charles Manson has the right to marry

Once marriage is defined as an inalienable right, states can't frack it up anymore by discriminating against couples based on race or gender. Or prison status
Loving does not apply here, as to apply it one most show that there is both "invidious" discrimination at play (which there isn't) and that the discrimination is an attempt to make a particular class superior (again, which is not the case here): http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/215175-scotus-moderate-decision-ssm-3.html#post1064246320.

And the issue about prisoners being allowed to marry in no way recognized a federal constitutional right to marry, but that the state had no federal grounds to deny either rights or privileges to prisoners that were not specifically denied in the constitution or denial of which constituted cruel and unusual punishment. Rights or privileges not explicitly granted in the constitution are left to the states and the people. Marriage is one of these.

But, even if marriage was eventually declared a federal constitutional right by some convoluted erroneous reasoning, it's still "marriage", meaning "between a man and a woman as husband and wife". By it's very nature, "marriage" rightly discriminates between a single person by him or her self, three or more people, a man and a little girl, a dog and a cat, .. and a man and a man and a woman and a woman.

No exceptions can rightly be made with respect to the word "marriage".

If you want to have private enterprise and government recognition of certain specific domestic partnerships (marriage itself is a civil union domestic partnership legal statute in every state), then each distinct civil union domestic partnership must be defined in detail and identified with an identifying word .. so "homarriage" or the like would be a new civil union domestic partnership "between two same sex people as husband and husband or wife and wife" or whatever.

But that's rightly up to each state to decide, as there is no federal constitutional even remotely applicable passage in this matter to force states to create specific statutes.

Justice Thomas is absolutely correct, in that not only is it apparent that the SCOTUS is tipping their hand that the majority will attempt to construe a federal right to the ridiculous oxymoronic "gay marriage" / "same-sex marriage", but that that would obviously be the wrong decision, as though clearly the majority of Americans favor recognition, the majority of Americans also don't support that recognition under the inapplicable term "marriage", and because the SCOTUS simply has no final conclusion as to whether gay is from birth or a conscious choice, they cannot intelligently conclude it's an inalienable right.

The SCOTUS simply has no rationally intelligent grounds to conclude that "any two people" can "marry", both with respect to definitive propriety, respecting words and their true meaning, constitutionally, and with respect to the majority of Americans who have yet to show that gays marrying is a time-honored cultural reasonable and customary tradition.

Ultimately, the likely thing the SCOTUS is going to do is to require same-sex union recognition in every state but to let each state decide what to call that particular union. Some states will call it rightly "homarriage", and others will erroneously refer to it as "marriage".

But the right thing for the SCOTUS to do is to allow recognition in every state but require that it be given a name other than marriage, as it's reasonable and customary for adult humans to bond one-to-one (not polygamously), but there is no reasonable and customary cultural tradition to call such bondings "marriage".

Again, marriage is a contract, and contract law is the province of the state, not the federal.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Have you read any American history?

We're the UNITED STATES, emphasis on STATES. The way things are now, we ought to change the name of our country to the American Federal Republic.

What the hell does a state do anymore? I'll tell you,
what we have become is NOT what the original founders had in mind.




The original founders of the USA fought for freedom for themselves and other white men, not for black slaves and women.

The USA has come a long ways in a little over 200 years but it still has a little ways to go. :roll:
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Refusal to comply with the supreme court. Again.

The law is clear, the issue is decided. Same-sex marriage licenses must be issued in Alabama. The Supreme Court of the United States says so. The only avenue at this point is amending the US constitution, or a later Supreme Court ruling in a reversal. (both are pipe dreams at this stage) It's over.

Anyone in Alabama refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses right now is in violation of the law. This bull**** about holding off "for clarification?" Just that. Bull****. There is no source of possible confusion, the Supreme Court has been incredibly clear and incredibly patient with these people. Next step is charges of contempt and ever-increasing fines until compliance. Possible disbarment of judges who continue to throw a tantrum, replacing them with someone who will follow the law.

Stop dragging your feet so hard against someone else's rights, Alabama. It's just reconfirming every stereotype about your ignorant, hillybilly ****hole of a state.


Technically speaking that may not be quite true.


Now any Probate Judge issuing different-sex Civil Marriage Licenses is clearly in violation of the Federal Judges order - don't disagree there.


However, under Alabama Revised Statutes Title 30, Chapter 1, Section 30-1-9 (Marriage not to be solemnized without license) "Marriage licenses may be issued by the judges of probate of the several counties." I Probate Judge that is issuing NO license under the law that the issuance of any licenses (the "may" makes it optional) wouldn't technically be in violation of the order, they are exercising an existing option under Alabama law.


Code Of Alabama

>>>>
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

The 14th amendment says equal protection under the law. If your assertion that the lack of specifics means it doesn't apply, then you're declaring the 14th amendment doesn't apply to anything. Is that your assertion?


By this logic, no law has ever been unconstitutional unless a court instantly decided such. Interesting. So you now believe every single gun law is constitutional, right?


No, it is not. The states are trampling on the rights of the individual, which apparently doesn't bother you.
Why do you throw away individual liberty so easily?



Some people in the USA would like to get the government off of Wall Street's back and into every American bedroom,controlling everyone's private life.

Not going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

That gay marriage is just NOW coming in to play reflects cultural shifts, and it goes to show that the constitution can be interpreted BOTH to include and exclude gay marriage.

Gay marriage has been illegal for years, and that was the law of the land, and we had the 14th amendment. So what changed?

Activism, and cultural shifts.

So, fine. But let the activists stay in their own damn states.
Alabama wants nothing to do with you, and it will only come back to bite you.



Alabama and the Confederate States of America lost the U.S. Civil War and they have to do what the Supreme Court tells them to do just like the rest of the USA. :roll:

Deal with it.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Ahh, an appeal to authority. Awesome. So the courts disagree, therefore I'm wrong.

Using your logic, slavery was justified in the early 1800's because the courts upheld it and it was legal. So which is it? Are the courts almighty or aren't they?

Personally, I hate living in a jurocracy. I prefer to let the people govern themselves, as opposed to an unelected judge "interpreting" the constitution however his agenda sees fit.
But maybe I'm weird.



You may not be weird but you are on the losing side of this argument. Same-sex marriage will be legal all over the USA in the near future.

Wait and see.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

"American Federal Republic"

I'm ok with that.

States rights don't work when they are discriminating against people in violation of the federal constitution.

Federal rights supersede states rights.



Anyone who doubts that needs to check the results of the U.S. Civil War which settled that question. :roll:
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Alright, I want to run naked through Times Square.
It's illegal. However, as a nudist, this infringes on my individual liberties. Right?



Who's stopping you? Give it and a try and see what happens. :roll:
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Again, marriage is a contract, and contract law is the province of the state, not the federal.

And contract law is still subject to the equal protection clause, hence the actual question before the court instead of this red herring of definitions you bring up in every single thread.

SCOTUS is addressing two questions and two questions only. You ignored both. You can keep saying that marriage only means between a man and a woman, but the question is whether or not the state is allowed to operate using that definition in contract law.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

And contract law is still subject to the equal protection clause, hence the actual question before the court instead of this red herring of definitions you bring up in every single thread.

SCOTUS is addressing two questions and two questions only. You ignored both. You can keep saying that marriage only means between a man and a woman, but the question is whether or not the state is allowed to operate using that definition in contract law.
Again, the "equal protection" clause simply does not apply in this situation: http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/215175-scotus-moderate-decision-ssm-3.html#post1064246097.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Anyone in Alabama refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses right now is in violation of the law. This bull**** about holding off "for clarification?" Just that. Bull****. There is no source of possible confusion, the Supreme Court has been incredibly clear and incredibly patient with these people. Next step is charges of contempt and ever-increasing fines until compliance. Possible disbarment of judges who continue to throw a tantrum, replacing them with someone who will follow the law.
Good luck with that. You can't charge any of these judges with contempt of court because they were not a party to the case. You can bring a separate action and force their hand that way, but as for now all this talk of disbarment is baseless.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Refusal to comply with the supreme court. Again.

The law is clear, the issue is decided. Same-sex marriage licenses must be issued in Alabama. The Supreme Court of the United States says so. The only avenue at this point is amending the US constitution, or a later Supreme Court ruling in a reversal. (both are pipe dreams at this stage) It's over.

Anyone in Alabama refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses right now is in violation of the law. This bull**** about holding off "for clarification?" Just that. Bull****. There is no source of possible confusion, the Supreme Court has been incredibly clear and incredibly patient with these people. Next step is charges of contempt and ever-increasing fines until compliance. Possible disbarment of judges who continue to throw a tantrum, replacing them with someone who will follow the law.

Stop dragging your feet so hard against someone else's rights, Alabama. It's just reconfirming every stereotype about your ignorant, hillybilly ****hole of a state.

yep this could turn out really bad for some and rightfully so
I hope in each cases somebody files another suit
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Loving does not apply here,

But, even if marriage was eventually declared a federal constitutional right by some convoluted erroneous reasoning, it's still "marriage", meaning "between a man and a woman as husband and wife". By it's very nature, "marriage" rightly discriminates between a single person by him or her self, three or more people, a man and a little girl, a dog and a cat, .. and a man and a man and a woman and a woman.

No exceptions can rightly be made with respect to the word "marriage".

If you want to have private enterprise and government recognition of certain specific domestic partnerships (marriage itself is a civil union domestic partnership legal statute in every state), then each distinct civil union domestic partnership must be defined in detail and identified with an identifying word .. so "homarriage" or the like would be a new civil union domestic partnership "between two same sex people as husband and husband or wife and wife" or whatever.

But that's rightly up to each state to decide, as there is no federal constitutional even remotely applicable passage in this matter to force states to create specific statutes.

Justice Thomas is absolutely correct, in that not only is it apparent that the SCOTUS is tipping their hand that the majority will attempt to construe a federal right to the ridiculous oxymoronic "gay marriage" / "same-sex marriage", but that that would obviously be the wrong decision, as though clearly the majority of Americans favor recognition, the majority of Americans also don't support that recognition under the inapplicable term "marriage", and because the SCOTUS simply has no final conclusion as to whether gay is from birth or a conscious choice, they cannot intelligently conclude it's an inalienable right.

The SCOTUS simply has no rationally intelligent grounds to conclude that "any two people" can "marry", both with respect to definitive propriety, respecting words and their true meaning, constitutionally, and with respect to the majority of Americans who have yet to show that gays marrying is a time-honored cultural reasonable and customary tradition.

Ultimately, the likely thing the SCOTUS is going to do is to require same-sex union recognition in every state but to let each state decide what to call that particular union. Some states will call it rightly "homarriage", and others will erroneously refer to it as "marriage".

But the right thing for the SCOTUS to do is to allow recognition in every state but require that it be given a name other than marriage, as it's reasonable and customary for adult humans to bond one-to-one (not polygamously), but there is no reasonable and customary cultural tradition to call such bondings "marriage".

Again, marriage is a contract, and contract law is the province of the state, not the federal.

Wow, what a lot of typing for so little substance! I'll do a lot less and cover more, how about that?

Absolutely Loving applies here.

You may think marriage is only between two people of opposite sex. You are now wrong. The definition has changed in many countries and in many states.

You can't call same-sex marriage something "different" - that's the "separate but equal" theory which has been tossed out.

As someone else mentioned, contracts still have to follow the federal constitution. Real estate contracts that include clauses that you can't resell to blacks or chinese - those clauses aren't valid, no matter what you signed.

You don't like same sex marriage? don't have one.

What is causing issues right now is that a couple married in one state moves to another state -and suddenly they are no longer considered married. or they can't get a divorce since the state doesn't recognize the marriage. Or they can't adopt a child. That's just crazy.

And what happens when one member of a opposite-gender couple changes their gender? It was man/woman, now it's man/man or woman/woman. Are they still married? Are they forced to split up? Or conversely, if a woman changes her gender to a man, and then marries a woman - is it YOUR definition of marriage? or a same sex marriage? Remember the woman in Texas? her husband was a firefighter or police officer? he died in the line of duty. His parents demanded that they get his hazardous duty life insurance, saying that the couple was never really married because the woman was transgender. How awful.

All this stupidity is swept aside by having same sex marriage legal throughout the country.

Any rate, this is a bit off-topic re the justices in Alabama who are defying the federal court
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Loving does not apply here, as to apply it one most show that there is both "invidious" discrimination at play (which there isn't) and that the discrimination is an attempt to make a particular class superior (again, which is not the case here): http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/215175-scotus-moderate-decision-ssm-3.html#post1064246320.

And the issue about prisoners being allowed to marry in no way recognized a federal constitutional right to marry, but that the state had no federal grounds to deny either rights or privileges to prisoners that were not specifically denied in the constitution or denial of which constituted cruel and unusual punishment. Rights or privileges not explicitly granted in the constitution are left to the states and the people. Marriage is one of these.

But, even if marriage was eventually declared a federal constitutional right by some convoluted erroneous reasoning, it's still "marriage", meaning "between a man and a woman as husband and wife". By it's very nature, "marriage" rightly discriminates between a single person by him or her self, three or more people, a man and a little girl, a dog and a cat, .. and a man and a man and a woman and a woman.

No exceptions can rightly be made with respect to the word "marriage".

If you want to have private enterprise and government recognition of certain specific domestic partnerships (marriage itself is a civil union domestic partnership legal statute in every state), then each distinct civil union domestic partnership must be defined in detail and identified with an identifying word .. so "homarriage" or the like would be a new civil union domestic partnership "between two same sex people as husband and husband or wife and wife" or whatever.

But that's rightly up to each state to decide, as there is no federal constitutional even remotely applicable passage in this matter to force states to create specific statutes.

Justice Thomas is absolutely correct, in that not only is it apparent that the SCOTUS is tipping their hand that the majority will attempt to construe a federal right to the ridiculous oxymoronic "gay marriage" / "same-sex marriage", but that that would obviously be the wrong decision, as though clearly the majority of Americans favor recognition, the majority of Americans also don't support that recognition under the inapplicable term "marriage", and because the SCOTUS simply has no final conclusion as to whether gay is from birth or a conscious choice, they cannot intelligently conclude it's an inalienable right.

The SCOTUS simply has no rationally intelligent grounds to conclude that "any two people" can "marry", both with respect to definitive propriety, respecting words and their true meaning, constitutionally, and with respect to the majority of Americans who have yet to show that gays marrying is a time-honored cultural reasonable and customary tradition.

Ultimately, the likely thing the SCOTUS is going to do is to require same-sex union recognition in every state but to let each state decide what to call that particular union. Some states will call it rightly "homarriage", and others will erroneously refer to it as "marriage".

But the right thing for the SCOTUS to do is to allow recognition in every state but require that it be given a name other than marriage, as it's reasonable and customary for adult humans to bond one-to-one (not polygamously), but there is no reasonable and customary cultural tradition to call such bondings "marriage".

Again, marriage is a contract, and contract law is the province of the state, not the federal.

I stopped reading after the bolded part since its 100% factually wrong making the rest of your opinions meaningless. 25+ court cases and 45+ judges disagree and MANY of those cases reference loving, equal protection and the 14th right in thier decisions, ill take those facts over your post :)
as usual your post completely fails and facts win again
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

I will never understand why a man sitting in Europe, as you are, thinks he can lord over and dictate to the people of Alabama how they are supposed to live in their own state. The ego some of you guys have astounds me.



The U.S. Supreme Court is going to dictate to them and there's nothing that you can do about that.

Wait and see what happens. :roll:
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

What an incredibly effective way to waste taxpayer dollars.

I feel for those lower judges who will probably lose their jobs.

The governor has announced there will be no punishment of judges regardless of their decision.

Which, unlike SCOTUS, was the correct call.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

The U.S. Supreme Court is going to dictate to them and there's nothing that you can do about that.

Wait and see what happens. :roll:

yep just last minute desperation move by bigots to try and infringe on equal rights, it wont last though . . . in the end equal rights will triumph just like it should
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

So it's the federal government (federal court) dictating to the states what they can and can't do. Again, when did we become that country?

The courts have far, far overstepped their constitutional authority long ago.

It's too bad that it has come to this, but I am glad that they are finally standing up and saying that you've over stepped your authority (once again).

The feds are granted no authority here, it remains with the States and the people. Sorry, 14th doesn't even remotely apply.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

It's too bad that it has come to this, but I am glad that they are finally standing up and saying that you've over stepped your authority (once again).

The feds are granted no authority here, it remains with the States and the people. Sorry, 14th doesn't even remotely apply.

so the 25+ cases and 45+ judges got it wrong?
based on what? lol
please present to us what facts you have on your side that should trump the constitution, law, rights, and all those court cases and judges besides your feelings, thanks
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

The governor has announced there will be no punishment of judges regardless of their decision.

Which, unlike SCOTUS, was the correct call.


Governor Bentley announced that "he" would not punish Probate Judges refusing the Federal Court order.

He cannot say "there will be no punishment", depending on how the contempt case(s) turn out - he has no control over penalties issued by a Federal court.



(Just pointing out the minor correction)



>>>>
 
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